I always liked Ciaphas Cain's take on it, where he and Amberley note that most Chaos cults are made up of people who don't actually know that they're worshipping Chaos, at least at the start. They think it's a political movement agitating for change in the planetary government, or a secret club catering to a specific fetish, or some kind of warrior brotherhood. And, you know, the planetary governor sure is corrupt, and it's so liberating to finally meet other people who are into the same weird shit, and of course you want the approval of the veterans in your unit, so what does it matter if they've got a rogue psyker hanging around, or if a few club members turned up missing after that one crazy night that you don't quite remember, or that your sergeant doesn't seem to care all that much if your squad lives or dies as long as he can rack up more kills? So you get sucked in bit by bit and by the time you find out what you're actually involved in, it's too late to back out and you probably don't even care anymore, because Chaos has its hooks in you now and it's not letting go.
Reminds me of this short piece of fiction GW put out as part of the Great Rift emerging about some dockyard cops who are forced to put down a riot among a bunch of refugees in very bloody fashion and one of the groups involved goes "Yeah, the Emperor demands blood be shed amongst his subjects for the good of all" and before you know it they're posting up log entries about how the Emperor rules from a throne of skulls.
The blood of martyrs is the seed of the Imperium, after all.
40k's not all grimdark all the time, but it's just as disingenuous to imply that humanity are the good guys when you have such vast sectors of space where the average human has no rights, and are worked to death. The setting is so vast that you really have to take everything on its own merit. I think the best way to describe the whole of the setting isn't good or bad, but selfishness. Every faction, including the T'au are selfish. Humanity couldn't care less about the xenos because they want the whole of the galaxy. Chaos wants to feed itself. Orks just want a good krumpin. Among humanity different Space Marine chapters have their own agenda, like how planetary systems have their own. You may be born into Imperial slave pits, grow up never knowing your parents, get whipped into making ammunition for imperial weapons that never make its destination because of some minor administration error. Or you might live on some backwater world that's not exactly paradise, but at least no one is bothering you. Everyone is out for themselves and that's what drives the conflict in the setting. It's also what causes dumb arguments over whether or not the Imperium is fascists, or the good guys, because both arguments are equally valid.
Reminds me of this short piece of fiction GW put out as part of the Great Rift emerging about some dockyard cops who are forced to put down a riot among a bunch of refugees in very bloody fashion and one of the groups involved goes "Yeah, the Emperor demands blood be shed amongst his subjects for the good of all" and before you know it they're posting up log entries about how the Emperor rules from a throne of skulls.
The blood of martyrs is the seed of the Imperium, after all.
“A Song for the Lost” is one of the best showings of chaos using the Imperium’s tools (faith and fury) against it.
Essentially it’s about a kid who’s a ward of the state, who’s been getting beaten by the local Ministorum Priest, a kindly sister pats his head and teaches him a prayer about a “mistress of pain” that soothes him and lets him sleep, this happens every night, his bunkmate coincidentally stops talking around this time.
Kid gets shipped off to the adeptus astartes, gets indoctrinated but that prayer remains and goes under the radar, being one of the few things of his pre-marine life that remains, because he’s already been programmed as a 4D chess move.
His bunkmate POV is horrifying, he looks over and sees a grotesque serpent wrapped around his friend and “she” took away his ability to speak.
That kid? He enlightened his chapter into the Angels of Ecstasy.
Out of curiosity, how much longer do I have in Rogue Trader if I've just entered Dargonus?
I admit I stretched out act 2 a lot by opting to fill out the entire world map and do every side quest available to me first before going for the colonies but the game's kind of running out of steam for me, especially since I constantly realize I've built a character wrong and end up spending a lot of time in the respec menu trying to map out a better build and the level up menu is frankly awful to navigate.
Out of curiosity, how much longer do I have in Rogue Trader if I've just entered Dargonus?
I admit I stretched out act 2 a lot by opting to fill out the entire world map and do every side quest available to me first before going for the colonies but the game's kind of running out of steam for me, especially since I constantly realize I've built a character wrong and end up spending a lot of time in the respec menu trying to map out a better build and the level up menu is frankly awful to navigate.
I’d say it’s more feudalist than fascist functioning more like the Holy Roman Empire than fascism. I mean there’s not much movement of class structures outside maybe the military. And if your parents were doing some shit job than it’s more than likely you are too unless you join the Guard (if your world allows it) and even then you face a 15 hours average lifespan your first battle against unspeakable horror never to see home again even if you survive.
The imperium is a feudalistic techocratic/oligarchy confederacy of sectors and worlds united under the god emperor and the administratum. These are the personal feifs of governors/families who can pretty much do whatever so long they pay the tithes on time and keep shit under control. The existance of the mechanicum itself means the imperium can not be fascist, due to the lack of a central authority. I would say le fascist elements are pretty much only in the guard, but oh well.
Seriously, anyone in here who hasn't read Peter Fehervari's books, do it. He's one of my favorite BL authors and he does a really good job with Tau and Chaos. They've even recently released an omnibus of his stuff.
Yeah I think I really like Pete. He created a series of self contained stories that have linked narrative elements, environments and characters. There's enough there for someone to enjoy connecting the dots, but not too much that it feels like homework to read everything.
The timeline order list is this. (barring occasional warp shenanigans)
So I technically got in the middle of it with fire caste, but again it is it's own story.
Here's a few ive read.
NightBleed
This had a cool silent hill feel to it. We follow an ex-nurse, turned corpse starch tester in a hive city as she's being stalked by a cultist who dresses up like he's Voldo from soul caliber. She gets a new product to test, takes a swig and one thing leads to another. I enjoyed how the hive Carceri is as much a character as the two leads are, as its the last surviving city on the planet and it gives the feeling of being a worn down mess that's slowly falling apart and inviting darker things to take root. Most hive city's are too crowded, but if anything this one feels too lifeless, and this story is set before things start going to hell. There is a darkly hilarious scene establishing the corpse starch factory has a cereal mascot, and the chaos cultist rages against it as a false idol.
Requiem Infernal
I would go so far as to call this a 40k epic. On the surface is a sister of battle tale with supplemental imperial guard but it's a lot more then just that. Using flashbacks and a frayed warp, its able to tell a tale that incorporates multiple worlds and times into a sort of eldritch time travel story.
The main storyline is concentrated on an ocean covered shrine world Vytarn, and follows a member of a rather unusual group of Sororitas called The Last Candle. Essentially a unselfish peacekeeping charity that's dedicated itself to finding and offering an alternative to the suffering the imperium preaches. But while they have noble goals and aspirations, the main Sororitas notices something's wrong. Things she remembers are not lining up, and she's seeing shit that's not real on a haunted boat with wounded imperial guard when suddenly people start dying. I really loved it for going the distance and not only making a really cool horror tale, but hopping to multiple planets and providing context for other stories. For example we get to see the aftermath of NightBleed AND we get the play by play on how the Iskai confederates "won" planet Providence with a little help.
Im glad I read Fire Caste before this, we dont get any obvious confed characters in it, (maybe one time displaced one on Vietnam before the tau invade) but the prequel lore was fun and it was really cool that the main chick's backstory heavily factored into it. Unfortunately I think this is the only other book set on that planet.
More then anything else this book showcases how good Pete is at writing Chaos. He gave them internal logic and consistency that while eldritch on the surface, actually has meaning and purpose when closely examined. Not to mention incredibly epic and messed up biblical levels of destruction. They don't feel cliche or even immediately recognizable as traditional chaos because Peter uses the framework of a sector with a fragile boundary to allow his own views to shine through. Namely that reality is actually LESS stable then the warp and as a result the deck is stacked by default. The smartest guy in the room will be the first poor bastard to die because the layman rules the endurance test of sanity. I particularly like how time travel is played in this. Everything feels wrong with no clear cut beginning or end to when changes stopped or started. It's less something that is intentionally utilized and more a natural disaster people are caught up in. That being said I appreciate how it isn't overused either. it only directedly factors into a few moments with lingering repercussions.
As much as the mystery and unknown is played up in his writings, I do like how the author provided enough logistical details for various elements to be deduced and uncovered. Dont quote me on this but using the lore I think was able to figure out the deal with the main character
Instead of being demonically tainted, Id wager she's somehow failed Officio Assassinorum. Haven't the faint idea as to how, but that's the only lore explanation I wager makes sense for her growing claws, going full kickass and having a split personality
There's plenty here for personal interpretation, but also enough concrete elements of lore and mythology to satisfy as well. Id give it as high a recommendation as I can. Also Kino space marine cameos.
The Greater Evil;
I enjoyed this quite a bit. The Tau get a message from an envoy who went missing for three years. He claims to have forged an alliance with cog forces on a sandy, desolate, dying hive city ( it's right next to space Vietnam before the Tau lay claim to it. This particular hive city is only present in this story ). The Tau send in an embassy team with an ethereal and human auxiliaries tagging along to investigate before things get hot.
I don't want to ruin the twist. I thought it was really kickass and went against my expectations but at the same time I do want to talk about the logistics of it.
. The Tau have a human auxiliary who got infected by genestealers, but somehow he was able to pull a Picard and fuck some cultists up.
He lasts for a surprisingly long time and eventually gets subverted for a spell before wrestling enough control back to kill himself. It was really cool and I like that the story keeps it ambiguous on how this was possible and how exactly he got infected. It seems like he did so from canabalising genestealers onboard a derelict he was trapped on before , but his reaction to first seeing a genestealer was odd enough he may have been infected before his flashback. All the same, this dude fought 5 years for the Tau and was able to tell a hive mind to kiss his ass for a couple hours. Maybe the conditioning confused the Tau as his hive or something, but it was really nice to see. His big mistake was trying to star trek debate the hive mind and giving it an opening to take control.
This is the first time we get to see things from the perspective of an ethereal and it's pretty interesting. He's one of the wandering kind and although he's a cool nice guy he gives the impression that he's kinda... Winging it? He doesn't seem to know why other Tau unquestioningly follow his orders and has a vague idea of observing events to find the greater good. He picked out the co lead human to serve on his security detail on nothing more then a hunch and has no inkling of what his deal was. Also there's a mention of him being uplifted from his caste, so there's implications becoming an ethereal might be in the same vein as being a space marine? If they have psi abilities it seems very surface level and weak. Dude can kick ass with a staff though. I liked how the fire caste officer actually cared about the humans under his command, while the ambassador couldn't give a rats ass. Also the end of the story hilariously has a Tau start to think that maybe racism isnt such a bad idea.
There's a cool hidden connection to the Fire Caste book, as the Fire caste survivor in this is the poor bastard who
got eaten by kroot and met a displaced human while talking about smoke
Out of curiosity, how much longer do I have in Rogue Trader if I've just entered Dargonus?
I admit I stretched out act 2 a lot by opting to fill out the entire world map and do every side quest available to me first before going for the colonies but the game's kind of running out of steam for me, especially since I constantly realize I've built a character wrong and end up spending a lot of time in the respec menu trying to map out a better build and the level up menu is frankly awful to navigate.
I'm still only doing my first play game and Act 2 thus far has felt like the longest act. Yes, I also did all of the side quests I could do too, but disregarding that it still felt like there was more in it than 1 or 3. Only on Act 4 so I can't attest it's length yet.
I want to enjoy Void Exiles, but seriously, how do you write a book about the space sharks with not having the leader of the space sharks? In it I wanted to see the red wake doing the Kool Aid man through a wall.
Tyberos
Like, seriously, if you're going to have his creepy chief librarian who's always stalking around the chapter being the weirdo, you got to have his. Actual chapter Master. Show up and burst through at least a wall and punch a few demons in the face with his giant chain sword power Claws. combination things.
Counterpoint: I'm human, my family is human, and all my friends are human. So long as there is only one human supremacist faction in the setting, it will remain "the good guy" faction.
Counterpoint: I'm human, my family is human, and all my friends are human. So long as there is only one human supremacist faction in the setting, it will remain "the good guy" faction.
40k's not all grimdark all the time, but it's just as disingenuous to imply that humanity are the good guys when you have such vast sectors of space where the average human has no rights, and are worked to death.
That's something repeated a lot by the fandom and is incorrect. Humanity hates xenos because they will ALWAYS betray/enslave them in the long run. For every cute waifu Eldar wanting to help humanity for the common good, there are thousands of Eldar leaders who will let human world be genocided to save one Eldar. Ditto Tau would happily sterilize humans they deep problematic.
That's something repeated a lot by the fandom and is incorrect. Humanity hates xenos because they will ALWAYS betray/enslave them in the long run. For every cute waifu Eldar wanting to help humanity for the common good, there are thousands of Eldar leaders who will let human world be genocided to save one Eldar. Ditto Tau would happily sterilize humans they deep problematic.
by the standards of 40k simply acting in favour of your own species and not malevolently acting against others is conisdered the peak of morality. the eldar have in several occasions acted generously towards mankind while mankind has a pretty consistent track record of shooting itself in the foot just because it would hurt an eldar see watchmaster artemis during the coherian situation with eldrad. obviously you cannot talk about the imperium as a whole because it is contradictory and immense but I'd wager that a large swathe if not the majority of the imperium would rather the galaxy be consumed by chaos or burn away entirely than allow a xenos empire to surpass them.
Does anyone here play older editions of warhammer 40k semi-reugarly. if so how did you find your group I want to play 5th edition 40k but i can never find people to play it with.
the eldar have in several occasions acted generously towards mankind while mankind has a pretty consistent track record of shooting itself in the foot just because it would hurt an eldar see watchmaster artemis during the coherian situation with eldrad
Yeah you wouldn't trust until you can divine what they want but that goes both ways the eldar have had many situations where they put their trust in the imperium only to be double crossed almost as fast but thats just the setting not a single facion is trust worthy.
Yeah you wouldn't trust until you can divine what they want but that goes both ways the eldar have had many situations where they put their trust in the imperium only to be double crossed almost as fast but thats just the setting not a single facion is trust worthy.
Except the Eldar have mind read and future vision so they always have the better intel, while maintaining their superiority over humans despite devolving to hit and run tactics.
But the easiest justification for humanity hatred of Eldar is them birthing Slannesh, though even beforehand they were absolutely untrustworthy.
