Warhammer 40k

[Spilled Spaghett]

What are you retards arguing about? This whole conversation is like the 5'11" meme. Calm down and have a picture of Guillimom. It makes me smile.

 

[Love Machine]

What are you retards arguing about? This whole conversation is like the 5'11" meme. Calm down and have a picture of Guillimom. It makes me smile.
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Despite all my complaints about the middle to later half of the heresy books. I did like her character.

 

[p1138]

I always assumed Spess Mehrines were around 7 feet tall. Big enough to be imposing without being ludicrously impractical. Same height for Eldar, naturally, given they're typically described as being of a similar height.

And of course some SM are going to be taller or shorter based on their primarch, so you get Alpha Legionaries who are around the 6'6" height which would allow them to infiltrate easier disguised as humans, World Eaters not much taller since Angron was a bit of an angry stump, and then at the biggest end you've got the Salamanders, who like Vulkan are bigger than all their relatives.

Sure, it's just that "over 2 meters tall" as a means to describe them in a book just isn't imposing in any way, which was my initial point. Humans being "over 2 meters tall" isn't a rarity.

What are you retards arguing about? This whole conversation is like the 5'11" meme.

I'm not sure, other than apparently someone being a 40k fan that was malnourished as a child or something.

But they already brought back 2 Primarchs and just… haven’t done anything with them. Outside of Dark Imperium novels Guilliman is just excel spreadsheeting the Imperium.

The Lion has done... not much. Guilliman on the other hand went back and got possessed by the emperor to go slap around Mortarion and Nurgle, take back parts of Ultramar. Now with the dawn of fire series done(that takes place before dark imperium) he's also kicked a hornets nest of necrons at the end of it running away from the silent king having wasted a crusade fleet in the process. So at least he's been doing something. At the end of the day, the primarchs can't do a hell of a lot to change the status quo, because the setting relies on factions fighting amongst themselves, and generally being stupid to avoid actually being productive enough to win and destroy the galaxy in the process.

I wouldnt be surprised if "transhuman dread" as a concept died when primaris were introduced in modern black library writing.

It absolutely is still there. Are you another one of these "fans" that hasn't paid any attention to shit for damn near 7, 8 years now? The whole fucking point of me commenting on "over 2 meters tall" is that there's nothing "transhuman" about that to dread, so it's shitty writing that unintentionally comes off as comical. Doesn't read the lore, but wants to tell us about the lore and writing? Ok.

 

[daniel day]

Id reckon the transhuman dread comes from the fact that seeing a space marine for most people is tantamount to a world-ending omen. Now add on that they're slightly uncanny valley, and literal aspects of your warrior religion, and so it must be unsettling to see one in person. Outside of that cultural context us people on real life erff dont see space marines as anything but toys and figures, whereas there really is a 7 foot tall demi god standing in front of you in a world filled with actual magic and crazy gods and shit.

 

[Love Machine]

It absolutely is still there. Are you another one of these "fans" that hasn't paid any attention to shit for damn near 7, 8 years now? The whole fucking point of me commenting on "over 2 meters tall" is that there's nothing "transhuman" about that to dread, so it's shitty writing that unintentionally comes off as comical. Doesn't read the lore, but wants to tell us about the lore and writing? Ok.

I literally said I dont read the new most new primaris novels, but what youre saying is retarded because primaris are definitely near 8 ft tall anyway. Do you think people describe things they see at exact height?

I watched Asterion Moloc enter the room, standing perfectly at 8ft 9in, I realize I am height mogged and filled with some sort of dread... for transhumans.

 

[The Bogwater Flows On]

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You sure?

If I saw that Shaq I would be scared shitless because I am in a shitty movie.

 

[p1138]

Id reckon the transhuman dread comes from the fact that seeing a space marine for most people is tantamount to a world-ending omen. Now add on that they're slightly uncanny valley, and literal aspects of your warrior religion, and so it must be unsettling to see one in person. Outside of that cultural context us people on real life erff dont see space marines as anything but toys and figures, whereas there really is a 7 foot tall demi god standing in front of you in a world filled with actual magic and crazy gods and shit.

Right, and that all makes sense. The problem is... they don't get described like that.

I literally said I dont read the new most new primaris novels, but what youre saying is retarded because primaris are definitely near 8 ft tall anyway. Do you think people describe things they see at exact height?

It's been what, 7 fucking year now? Most of a decade? And no, I never said I expect an exact height description. Let's see exactly what I said that could resolve the minor issue with the crappy writing.

Shit, there's white and asian NBA players taller than 6'6". That's not even a rare height unless everyone in the future is a midget. If it were "2 and a half meters" or something it'd be a bit more meaningful.

Again, not a damned thing about wanting exact height measurements. But if you're going to describe something as inhumanly tall, then make sure the damned description doesn't start below college basketball players. Doesn't read the books, doesn't read the posts... ffs. Then double posts on top of it because I guess they didn't read the list of options that includes "Edit". And yeah, if you're going to comment on a discussion about the CURRENT writing for the fucking books, it might make sense to have... I don't know... at least brushed up on it? Instead of trying to give interpretations and explanations for shit you haven't read.

 

[daniel day]

Right, and that all makes sense. The problem is... they don't get described like that.

Yes they do. Theyre described as "The Emperor's Angels" or "Angels of Death". Space marines are used entirely against the greatest threats the Imperium faces. Just because the author doesnt slam you in the face with "heres all the ways that people fear the space marine and why they do it" doesnt mean that context is gone. Im not even applying headcanon, in every space marine novel everything Ive said is clearly, explicitly stated in one way or another. Their height and physical intimidation are the most obvious things about them, obviously, but the rest of the book and context of the story matters too.

Edit: 1 in 1000 men in the United States is 6'6 (which is about 2 meters tall exactly). Thats in the richest, most well fed country in the world. Height is directly related to nutrition. Being 6'6 is, statistically, very very tall which is very, very rare. Now, lets presume 'over 2 meters tall' is 2.5 meters. There have been under 20 people in recorded history over 8 feet tall. If they are that height, they're usually seriously deformed because they have an issue with their body. Imagine eddie hall at 8 feet tall, then add at least half a foot of solid armor. Thats fucking huge. Thats a foot taller than Shaq, unarmored. Add in that in the poorly fed Imperium where your average hiver is most assuredly a manlet and you've got inhuman height. Jesus you niggers are retarded. Height over like 6'4 drops off severely in commonality. Its a bell curve, and 6'6 is at the far end.

 

[Love Machine]

It's been what, 7 fucking year now? Most of a decade? And no, I never said I expect an exact height description. Let's see exactly what I said that could resolve the minor issue with the crappy writing.

I dont read most most modern space marine books because if it doesnt have to do with blood angels, space wolves, black templars, or ultramarines. It doesnt matter AND its probably not gonna be a good story. Though I did like spears for the emperor. Why are you so mad that im not reading every single BL release that comes out? Especially since the writing is so supposedly poor in them as you describe? God knows Dawn of Fire was sooo good.

Oh and the dark angels too, even though forest walking is kind of silly.

 

[The Bogwater Flows On]

Oh and the dark angels too, even though forest walking is kind of silly.

I'll defend the Forest Walking because the book actually fucking did something with it. (It is silly as fuck).

I know we're out here calling the Dark Angels fags and that's right, but I loved the Lion book. Especially since he woke up frollicked through the woods until he saw some humans getting attacked by mutated freak monsters before slapstick beatdowning the monsters while literally internally monologuing some shit like "I am strong. They are weak. I will lend these people my strength until it is no longer needed". I know in the last decade since I dropped 40k for a long bit there was a massive flip where you could number the amount of Space Marine CHAPTERS who gave a fuck about on your fingers, to every Primaris Chapter loving dem humans or something.

I deserve an autism because I wrote all and forgot it was just a response to the forest walking thing. Yeah, that stuff is weird, but GW decided all Primarchs are super connected to the Warp or something. I gave up on the Horus Heresy books ages ago because the Cabal is the stupidest thing ever and it took them almost twice as long to publish books through the Siege of Terra as it took for the Horus Heresy to fucking conclude in univers.

 

[Love Machine]

I'll defend the Forest Walking because the book actually fucking did something with it. (It is silly as fuck).

I know we're out here calling the Dark Angels fags and that's right, but I loved the Lion book. Especially since he woke up frollicked through the woods until he saw some humans getting attacked by mutated freak monsters before slapstick beatdowning the monsters while literally internally monologuing some shit like "I am strong. They are weak. I will lend these people my strength until it is no longer needed". I know in the last decade since I dropped 40k for a long bit there was a massive flip where you could number the amount of Space Marine CHAPTERS who gave a fuck about on your fingers, to every Primaris Chapter loving dem humans or something.

I deserve an autism because I wrote all and forgot it was just a response to the forest walking thing. Yeah, that stuff is weird, but GW decided all Primarchs are super connected to the Warp or something. I gave up on the Horus Heresy books ages ago because the Cabal is the stupidest thing ever and it took them almost twice as long to publish books through the Siege of Terra as it took for the Horus Heresy to fucking conclude in univers.

Forest walking is a cool name for it at least. I was only mentioning the dark angels because theyre one of the chapters where the things they do hypothetically matter. I thought the lion book was a fine reintroduction for the Lion back into the setting.

As for chapters to actually care about you can probably count them on 3 hands at this point. Not like theyre releasing a lot of great stuff for the random chapters.

 

[p1138]

Yes they do. Theyre described as "The Emperor's Angels" or "Angels of Death". Space marines are used entirely against the greatest threats the Imperium faces. Just because the author doesnt slam you in the face with "heres all the ways that people fear the space marine and why they do it" doesnt mean that context is gone. Im not even applying headcanon, in every space marine novel everything Ive said is clearly, explicitly stated in one way or another. Their height and physical intimidation are the most obvious things about them, obviously, but the rest of the book and context of the story matters too.

They don't get described like that in the books and instances where the authors decide the best descriptor is "over 2 meters tall" Again, that's the whole point. You don't describe something inhuman and unrelatable, with a description that applies to someone you'd see at the grocery store.

I dont read most most modern space marine books because if it doesnt have to do with blood angels, space wolves, black templars, or ultramarines.

The dawn of fire series by itself has an entire book dedicated to Space Wolves on Fenris, another book dedicated to Black Templars, and most of the space marine stuff in the series is ultramarines or one of their thousands of successor chapters. Fuck, it's the only chapters they seem to write about most of the time. There's a big difference between reading nothing at all, and reading some of them. No one stated reading everything was a requirement, but if you're not reading anything...

Why are you so mad that im not reading every single BL release that comes out? Especially since the writing is so supposedly poor in them as you describe? God knows Dawn of Fire was sooo good.

How would you know? Apparently you don't read the shit at all. Let alone that specific series, although that's after complaining that you only want to read about specific chapters... the ones BL authors fucking beat to death on a regular basis because they can't come up with anything more interesting. They're space marine books, they're never going to be amazing.

Also, stop double posting like a retard. READ.

 

[daniel day]

They don't get described like that in the books and instances where the authors decide the best descriptor is "over 2 meters tall" Again, that's the whole point. You don't describe something inhuman and unrelatable, with a description that applies to someone you'd see at the grocery store.

Over 2 meters is, at least to me, 7 feet+. How many people do you see that are at least 7 feet tall? How relateable is being 7 feet tall? If you're 6'2 you're statistically the tallest person in any room you're in. Add 10 more inches. A whole head taller. But, its not a head taller like 6'2 is to 5'5, its a head taller than someone thats 6'2. Its 2 heads taller than the average human being (5'6). 7 feet tall is gigantic. Frankly, 6'6 is gigantic. Are you saying if you saw eddie hall you wouldnt be surprised to see a guy as wide as two fridges and at least head taller than you? Height is a bell curve. 6'6 is about the limit. 7 foot+ is incredibly rare. Which would be abhuman.

Thats not counting you glossed over what I said. They are described as the Emperor's angels, by the characters around them. They are world-ending omens, simply because every story theyre in bar a few exceptions usually includes world ending phenomenon. They are unsettling looking, at least firstborn are, because of their uncanny, gigantism look. Which is described in several books. Primaris, who are more normal looking, are even bigger than first born, and thus even more monsterously huge, are unsettling just based on that. So you've got Shaq built like Eddie Hall plus a tank's worth of armor, but also if you see him you're probably going to die very soon, if you're lucky.

 

[p1138]

Over 2 meters is, at least to me, 7 feet+.

Congratulations, you can't reliably estimate the length of anything.

How many people do you see that are at least 7 feet tall? How relateable is being 7 feet tall? If you're 6'2 you're statistically the tallest person in any room you're in. Add 10 more inches. A whole head taller. But, its not a head taller like 6'2 is to 5'5, its a head taller than someone thats 6'2. Its 2 heads taller than the average human being (5'6). 7 feet tall is gigantic. Frankly, 6'6 is gigantic. Are you saying if you saw eddie hall you wouldnt be surprised to see a guy as wide as two fridges and at least head taller than you? Height is a bell curve. 6'6 is about the limit. 7 foot+ is incredibly rare. Which would be abhuman.

I wasn't talking about being 7'. It was about being over 2 meters tall, which starts at 6'6, not 7'. No one was claiming being 7' tall was common, or something to see on a regular basis every day. That would be why I mentioned the average height of the NBA... which happens to also be 6'5" to 6'6" depending on what year you're looking at over the past 2-5 years or so.

Thats not counting you glossed over what I said. They are described as the Emperor's angels, by the characters around them.

I didn't gloss over anything. When you're reading a book, usually not a space marine focused book, and when a space marine makes an appearance and they get described as "over 2 meters tall" it is a shit description. Why are you refusing to grasp this point. I never said they were given this shit description in all books, and I wasn't talking about books where they are described properly.

They are world-ending omens, simply because every story theyre in bar a few exceptions usually includes world ending phenomenon. They are unsettling looking, at least firstborn are, because of their uncanny, gigantism look. Which is described in several books. Primaris, who are more normal looking, are even bigger than first born, and thus even more monsterously huge, are unsettling just based on that. So you've got Shaq built like Eddie Hall plus a tank's worth of armor, but also if you see him you're probably going to die very soon, if you're lucky.

And that would be fine if they were always described as such. Yet once again... that is not the case. When you're reading a book, and a character is described as being "over 2 meters tall" even if you know what a space marine is, with no more description it may as well be a fucking ogryn.

It'd be like trying to describe someone as rich by saying they had "over ten thousand dollars", as if that's benchmark for rarity.

Even "a hundred thousand" still doesn't work. Yeah Jeff Bezos has over $100k, so do a lot of other people but that's still a sum of money people can understand rather than the hundreds of billions he actually has that most people on the planet cannot relate to and will never see that amount of value in one spot to even visualize what 240 billion dollars actually means. As I've said, GW sucks with numbers and fucks them up all the time. As a result we get grand battles involving fewer guardsmen for the fate of an entire planet, than we had for some conflicts in WW1 and WW2 and other oddities due to the crap writing that comes up on occasion even in what would otherwise be an "ok" book.

 

[daniel day]

Congratulations, you can't reliably estimate the length of anything

Just because you read the words on a page doesnt mean you understand whats being said, apparently. "Over two meters" = very fucking tall. Its that simple. Over two meters is very fucking tall.

 

[p1138]

Just because you read the words on a page doesnt mean you understand whats being said, apparently. "Over two meters" = very fucking tall. Its that simple. Over two meters is very fucking tall.

And what I'm trying to say... in plain English even with other examples that you either cannot comprehend or are just willfully ignoring, it's a shit comparison.

Edit: 1 in 1000 men in the United States is 6'6 (which is about 2 meters tall exactly). Thats in the richest, most well fed country in the world.

Most(not all) of the BL authors are in the UK. Eddie Hall was given an example of someone with a physique close to how a space marine is described and shown... and he's british. The UK isn't some poor third world hole either. The average height for men in the UK is the same as the US, which means they've also likely got 2 meter tall men in the UK if the distribution is even remotely similar, which there's no reason it wouldn't be and I know that there are men in the UK that tall as I've met some. Describing an extreme height but starting with something common enough to not be abnormal is fucking stupid and that's all there is to it. I'll even give another example of how it sounds "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse" no one could eat a horse, it's describing an extreme to the point of being farcical but it describes someone who is incredibly hungry better than "I'm so hungry I could eat a quarter pounder with cheese" allowing the reader to quickly understand that what is being described is far outside of the norm. 2 meters doesn't do that.

 

[Rimanah]

"Over two meters" = very fucking tall. Its that simple. Over two meters is very fucking tall.

If they want to make someone very fucking tall, the describe them as very tall. If they want to give numbers to it (which they shouldn’t, GW is fucking garbage with numbers), then actually choose a height that really is very fucking tall. For example, they could choose to use the wonderful world of decimals and say “over 2.5 meters tall.”
Over 2 meters is only 18 cm taller than the average Dutch man.

Edit: 1 in 1000 men in the United States is 6'6 (which is about 2 meters tall exactly). Thats in the richest, most well fed country in the world. Height is directly related to nutrition. Being 6'6 is, statistically, very very tall which is very, very rare.

Americans aren’t even in the top 50 tallest counties in the world. Pretty much all of Europe is taller. This is a terrible example.

Again, I don’t know why some people are desperate to defend GW fucking something up. They do it all the time, especially when it comes to numbers. The land raiders armor, vrak’s casulties, only one million worlds of the imperium, just a million space marines, etc. GW can’t into numbers.

 

[daniel day]

The UK isn't some poor third world hole either

This is the most retarded thing you've said tonight.

 

[p1138]

This is the most retarded thing you've said tonight.

So you're disagreeing with my statement and claiming that the UK is some poor third world shithole? I get it, there's migrants but are you fucking serious? The country that is ranked 6th by GDP without needing a billion street shitters doing absurd manual labor to make up for it you're going to claim is a poor third world shithole? Even going per capita(which drops India from 4th to 139th) while the US is 7th(so still not the richest), the UK is still only 18th right along with Germany, Finland, and Canada... none of which would ever be described as a "poor third world hole" by anyone with a functioning brain. Not even GW writers would do that.

If they want to make someone very fucking tall, the describe them as very tall. If they want to give numbers to it (which they shouldn’t, GW is fucking garbage with numbers), then actually choose a height that really is very fucking tall. For example, they could choose to use the wonderful world of decimals and say “over 2.5 meters tall.”
Over 2 meters is only 18 cm taller than the average Dutch man.

This is exactly the problem, and it's easily fixed. Even "over 2 and a quarter" or "over 2.25" would fix it.

 

[daniel day]

So you're disagreeing with my statement and stating factually that the UK is some poor third world shithole?

Yes.

Again, I don’t know why some people are desperate to defend GW fucking something up.

GW saying that a thousand chapters of a thousand marines for a galaxy spanning empire is enough is a retarded fuckup, 6'6 being very, almost abnormally, tall is not.