Warhammer 40k

[p1138]

It really irks me when people clammer to attack everything GW does no matter the merits and then fail to get even the basics of law right. It substantially undercuts the many legitimate criticisms of GW’s shitty practices and their attempts to use the legal system and IP as a sword rather than a shield.

Indeed. The company fucks things up all the time, but it's good to call them out for shit they're actually fucking up and not some nonsense because some grifter made up some bullshit story because he fucked around and found out when any other company would likely do the same in a similar situation. He actually increased his GFM goal to 40,000 euros, and is now sitting at 32,000 of that, still not enough to really afford counsel in a suit like this but now he claims he wants to auto increase the goal till it eventually hits at least 100,000

Our initial goal is 100k euros, which will help us cover part of the attorneys fees, since the costs for a litigation as complex as this one are enormous.

The entire thing is fucking ludicrous.

Originally the rumor was spread by a hobby channel that some retarded tranny runs. So basically a tranny was doing it for attention. Other attention whores like Grummz picked it up too. What a fucking surprise, right? The leaked files in questions were just scans of varying quality found on Telegram. They're not that hard to find if you lurk there.

I wouldn't call that a hobby channel, that tranny doesn't post videos involving actually doing anything hobby related, just bitching about GW and Hasbro between both of their youtube channels. But yeah, couple weeks later and there was nothing of actual interest in that pile of STLs.

 

[bort420]

I just got around to looking at the models in question, and come on man. Dude had to know he was begging for a lawsuit. It’s retarded to act surprised or indignant in this case. I get some people simply don’t believe in copyright and IP laws, but regardless of its merits, it’s still the law. Just ignoring it and saying it shouldn’t exist doesn’t actually make it so. At a certain point you transition from making a policy argument to just failing act in your own self interest.

As long as he didn't infringe on GW trademark (Can't call his space marines "adeptus astartes" or w/e), copyright (needs to be pretty darn close to a ripoff) and design patents (don't think GW has any) he's legally clear. Try as they might GW cannot stop someone from making "compatible" models to their ruleset -- you can't actually copyright just rules, you can patent rules but to my knowledge they have not.

We don't have the court documents so it's not clear what exactly is being claimed, if someone can find those we can see what's actually going on. Probably he might have stated it was "compatible" with the rules when GW's position is that nothing but official GW models are officially part of the game.

 

[p1138]

As long as he didn't infringe on GW trademark (Can't call his space marines "adeptus astartes" or w/e), copyright (needs to be pretty darn close to a ripoff) and design patents (don't think GW has any) he's legally clear. Try as they might GW cannot stop someone from making "compatible" models to their ruleset -- you can't actually copyright just rules, you can patent rules but to my knowledge they have not.

We don't have the court documents so it's not clear what exactly is being claimed, if someone can find those we can see what's actually going on. Probably he might have stated it was "compatible" with the rules when GW's position is that nothing but official GW models are officially part of the game.

That's not what is going on at all. This is part of his grift, it doesn't have anything to do with "compatibility" or anything of the sort, as there are other companies that have done similar for years. I already posted it on a previous page but he's abusing Italy's wording regarding their IP laws and even admitted on his GoFundMe that's it's under article 2598 which is about "Unfair Competition" and then he goes on to specify that the lawsuit isn't specifically regarding article 2598.1 .2 and .3 but then doesn't present the entire set of filings(and Italy doesn't make them available publicly), and of course GW has no reason to publicly publish their own filings. In fact what he published without redacting mentions article 2598 .1 .2 and .3 in addition to another dozen articles.

The man is completely full of shit and looking through his MMF catalog shows that.

 

[Rimanah]

As long as he didn't infringe on GW trademark (Can't call his space marines "adeptus astartes" or w/e), copyright (needs to be pretty darn close to a ripoff) and design patents (don't think GW has any) he's legally clear.

That’s rather tautological. Yeah, sure, if he didn’t do what GW has accused him of in their causes of action, then he’s legally fine. That’s just how the law works. The whole point of the suit is to determine if he’s liable or not.

That being said, what I believe is the relevant part of Italian law gives a cause of action for “slavishly [imitating] the goods of a competitor,” which I would definitely argue some of those models fall under. That being said, I’m not going to pretend to be an expert in Italian law, let alone IP law, or even have any special knowledge on it. My instincts are telling me that’s probably GW’s at least part of the legal/statutory basis for the suit. If it’s likely to succeed is a whole different question entirely.

 

[bort420]

That’s rather tautological. Yeah, sure, if he didn’t do what GW has accused him of in their causes of action, then he’s legally fine. That’s just how the law works. The whole point of the suit is to determine if he’s liable or not.

That being said, what I believe is the relevant part of Italian law gives a cause of action for “slavishly [imitating] the goods of a competitor,” which I would definitely argue some of those models fall under. That being said, I’m not going to pretend to be an expert in Italian law, let alone IP law, or even have any special knowledge on it. My instincts are telling me that’s probably GW’s at least part of the legal/statutory basis for the suit. If it’s likely to succeed is a whole different question entirely.

This makes more sense though slavish reproduction in US law means 1:1 copying or close enough. Who knows how Italy handles it but tbh his models are unique sculpts if not always stylistically all that different.

I think this is a waste of time for GW and risks a ruling against them but idk if that even matters with European law

 

[Rimanah]

Who knows how Italy handles it but tbh his models are unique sculpts if not always stylistically all that different.

I’m not sure I agree. Most of his stuff is unique, sure, but there are definitely some sculpts in there that do more than raise eyebrows. If it was a suit in America, I think some are close enough to make it a fact question that needs to go to jury/fact finder.

I think this is a waste of time for GW and risks a ruling against them but idk if that even matters with European law

If you mean like an adverse ruling being bad precedent for GW, it doesn’t. Italy is a Civil Law based system, where precedent is at most persuasive. Prior case law being binding is for the most part an Anglo-Common Law concept.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

Stumbled across this video in my recommended on YouTube. Though I haven't personally heard of this person but apparently he was part of the GW design team for several years. It's a bit long but it's some food for thought, and I find game design theory really interesting. He confirms that the 40k team is simply too afraid of removing I Go You Go. I guess that's a fair fear to have considering it has been that way for 10 editions now. It's also what I think most people figured it was. I don't know how most people feel about it, but regardless of its legacy I think it's time 40k finally moves on to something else. If it doesn't there has to be more we can do to remedy the issue of the game feeling like two people playing a single player game.

 

[Rimanah]

I think it's time 40k finally moves on to something else. If it doesn't there has to be more we can do to remedy the issue of the game feeling like two people playing a single player game.

Agreed. IGOUGO just doesn’t work for a game of 40k’s scale. It’s not a bad mechanic inherently, despite what some more zealous opponents claim. For example, it works fine in chess. But with the size of 40K armies, it just becomes too disengaging.
I’m personally a fan of the system GW uses for MESBG, which is essentially alternating phases. So I move you move, I shoot you shoot, etc. Keeps the GW-like feel while also being far more engaging.

My big concern with AA is the out activation issue. It’d still be better than IGOUGO IMO, but poorly implemented AA, like any mechanic, can be awful too. And while they are better than the darkest of days, I’m still not sure I trust GW to not mess it up.

 

[p1138]

Agreed. IGOUGO just doesn’t work for a game of 40k’s scale. It’s not a bad mechanic inherently, despite what some more zealous opponents claim. For example, it works fine in chess.

What? Chess is alternating activations. I go you go is how 40k currently works. You've got it backwards.

 

[Rimanah]

What? Chess is alternating activations. I go you go is how 40k currently works. You've got it backwards.

I was thinking AA as more “players take turns activating units until the game turn ends” and IGUG as “game turn is bifurcated, with one player performing all their game actions before the other.” And then a single game turn as “white, then black.”

I see what you mean though. I guess the terminology doesn’t really perfectly port over to other tabletop formats, or my definitions are just shit.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

My big concern with AA is the out activation issue. It’d still be better than IGOUGO IMO, but poorly implemented AA, like any mechanic, can be awful too. And while they are better than the darkest of days, I’m still not sure I trust GW to not mess it up.

Pure AA wouldn't work in 40k. Like you said it's biggest flaw is always favoring horde armies with higher activation counts. That's why most games use something else mixed in whether that's initiative or chance. The question is what works for 40k? Does it mimic a system they already use or do they come up with something brand new? Maybe each round the player who finished activating first gets an extra command point? That'd be something to help balance out armies that pad unit count. I like the sound of initiative based activations. Someone mentioned that X-wing does an interesting thing with AA. It has a move phase and shoot phase, but low initiative models move first, high initiative shoot first. I haven't played X-Wing but that sounds pretty clever. Unit spam might be first into position but they'll also be the first to take damage.

Something I think 40k could do immediately to help mitigate how destructive early turns can be is to drastically reduce weapon ranges. The game does make some minor effort to encourage you to fight at close range, but units are still too effective without rapid fire or melta. It'd help reduce the need to flood the board with ruins if you could potentially outrange your opponent instead of trading shots from across the board.

 

[p1138]

Pure AA wouldn't work in 40k. Like you said it's biggest flaw is always favoring horde armies with higher activation counts. That's why most games use something else mixed in whether that's initiative or chance. The question is what works for 40k? Does it mimic a system they already use or do they come up with something brand new? Maybe each round the player who finished activating first gets an extra command point? That'd be something to help balance out armies that pad unit count. I like the sound of initiative based activations. Someone mentioned that X-wing does an interesting thing with AA. It has a move phase and shoot phase, but low initiative models move first, high initiative shoot first. I haven't played X-Wing but that sounds pretty clever. Unit spam might be first into position but they'll also be the first to take damage.

Something I think 40k could do immediately to help mitigate how destructive early turns can be is to drastically reduce weapon ranges. The game does make some minor effort to encourage you to fight at close range, but units are still too effective without rapid fire or melta. It'd help reduce the need to flood the board with ruins if you could potentially outrange your opponent instead of trading shots from across the board.

So there's other AA systems out there that just give delay tokens to the player with fewer units to activate, and that can work as it means they can just delay instead of the horde player baiting them into having to do something and then getting 5 more activations or whatever toward the end of the round that the other player can't respond to.

What really needs to change for AA in 40k is how melee combat is handled, anything that would otherwise activate in a command phase, and anything else that would rely on an order of operations to function or where an entire phase happens at once like something temp. buffing another group of units during shooting or whatever.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

The Virgin Space Marines vs the CHAD Imperial Guard | Warhammer 40k meme dub

- DreadAnon

Why yes, I do fight horrific monstrosities with nothing more than a t-shirt and a flashlight, how could you tell?

Chaos gods: What will break first, your body? Or your spirit?
Guardsmen: The planet.

 

[niggaphil]

Saw this in youtube, mocking Hasan Piker:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrHiRIcRBf8

 

[Humble Architect]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=lbh__x9jExsThe Virgin Space Marines vs the CHAD Imperial Guard | Warhammer 40k meme dub

- DreadAnon

“Oh yeah, the Imperial Guard is the real men’s faction, Cadia is so back guys.”
-Secondaries who only run off memes.

 

[Snekposter]

View attachment 8035164
“Oh yeah, the Imperial Guard is the real men’s faction, Cadia is so back guys.”
-Secondaries who only run off memes.

Lady Castellan Trunchbull was a mistake.

 

[Michael Wade]

View attachment 8035164
“Oh yeah, the Imperial Guard is the real men’s faction, Cadia is so back guys.”
-Secondaries who only run off memes.

40k Hillary Clinton/Kathryn Janeway

 

[Miragestallio]

Votann are so lame. It's been years now since they've been introduced and there's not a single model or character that stands out to me.

You know what would be cool, though? Dragons. Like, actually intelligent space faring dragons.

GW is no stranger to revisionism, so they could just say they have always been in the milky galaxy just wandering about, maybe even have fought the emperor at some point in the past, or maybe they are somehow related to the old ones. That and dragons are cool so I'm not worried about the models looking bad. Just imagine an imperial knight house or a Tyranid hive fighting dragons.

If you don't think that's cool you're literally a nigger.

 

[augment]

There could be dragons, but they would be tied to either eldar Exodites or corsairs. Any other faction would view them as pests, save for Catachan jungle fighters who would no doubt tame them.

 

[Rimanah]

You know what would be cool, though? Dragons. Like, actually intelligent space faring dragons.

Seeing how that worked out in AOS, no thanks. The less opportunities GW design staff has to make fully modeled dragon sheaths, the better.
Also Slann and Exodites both already exist to fill that niche if need be, in addition to the numerous tyranid biomorphs that are essentially already dragons.