Warhammer 40k

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ratnoid said:
Kinda hate 'defending' GW, but these are just weirdly made asian faces because the company is fucking awful at making faces (which was always the case). I'm guessing it's the slanted eyes and smaller noses that did it
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Bullshit.
 
Miragestallio said:
Votann are so lame. It's been years now since they've been introduced and there's not a single model or character that stands out to me.

You know what would be cool, though? Dragons. Like, actually intelligent space faring dragons.

GW is no stranger to revisionism, so they could just say they have always been in the milky galaxy just wandering about, maybe even have fought the emperor at some point in the past, or maybe they are somehow related to the old ones. That and dragons are cool so I'm not worried about the models looking bad. Just imagine an imperial knight house or a Tyranid hive fighting dragons.

If you don't think that's cool you're literally a nigger.
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Unless it's exodites basically riding dinosaurs and definitely not weird bullshit intelligent space dragons or whatever the fuck nonsense, no. Go back to AoS.
 
Miragestallio said:
Votann are so lame. It's been years now since they've been introduced and there's not a single model or character that stands out to me.

You know what would be cool, though? Dragons. Like, actually intelligent space faring dragons.

GW is no stranger to revisionism, so they could just say they have always been in the milky galaxy just wandering about, maybe even have fought the emperor at some point in the past, or maybe they are somehow related to the old ones. That and dragons are cool so I'm not worried about the models looking bad. Just imagine an imperial knight house or a Tyranid hive fighting dragons.

If you don't think that's cool you're literally a nigger.
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So you just want a helldrake without the chaos and machine bits.
 
They dont look feminine at all to me tbh. I mean, I guess in context they "look feminine" in comparison to a face that looks like its carved from granite. They look no more feminine than the asian guy from space marine 2. That is to say, not very.

Looks like Cawl has a new book. Vashtorr mentioned, Necrons mentioned, Great Rift mentioned. All seems pretty cohesive as a theme, that being some level of robot/machine/technology 'stuff'.
 
Spilled Spaghett said:
Stumbled across this video in my recommended on YouTube. Though I haven't personally heard of this person but apparently he was part of the GW design team for several years. It's a bit long but it's some food for thought, and I find game design theory really interesting. He confirms that the 40k team is simply too afraid of removing I Go You Go. I guess that's a fair fear to have considering it has been that way for 10 editions now. It's also what I think most people figured it was. I don't know how most people feel about it, but regardless of its legacy I think it's time 40k finally moves on to something else. If it doesn't there has to be more we can do to remedy the issue of the game feeling like two people playing a single player game.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=x0IevQKFbKI
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Holy shit, I hadn't actually watched this video until now, and thank god this man was fired/letgo/whatever from GW, because he's a fucking idiot. That's not to say I think he's wrong about I go you go vs alternating activations for the most part, but he apparently has no idea how 40k plays.
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First he claims there's an advantage to going first, which... no there isn't. If anything there's a reason GW changed it to winner of the die roll goes first rather than picks, to eliminate people constantly choosing to go 2nd. Then he claims that the yellow chart is how an i go you go game normally paces itself across rounds, with the red chart being the worst case scenario. This becomes even more absurd due to this chart of his, which is how he claims WHFB goes
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He claims the difference is due to tables being larger, fewer models, and shorter ranges. Which is entirely true. However the yellow and red charts are only how 40k goes if you or your opponent are fucking retarded and are playing on a table without enough terrain or someone just dumped their shit into no man's land in round 1 like an idiot. WHFB might force a situation like the green chart due to having shorter ranges, fewer models, and a larger board. But your brain should be making that happen in 40k.

Fortunately none of that changes the actual advantages of alternating activations, how long turns can take in I go you go, etc. But if you don't know how the main game that your employer makes is played when you're discussing game design... fucking hell.
 
The only Votann model i find cool is the not-runesmith psyker, everything else is a boring rehash of "power armored retard", their not-terminators went full circle to Terran Marines, (but he is a midget now!!!!) And the berserkers dont have even the slightest class of the Slayers they imitate, their vehicles just look kinda retarded.
 
p1138 said:
Holy shit, I hadn't actually watched this video until now, and thank god this man was fired/letgo/whatever from GW, because he's a fucking idiot. That's not to say I think he's wrong about I go you go vs alternating activations for the most part, but he apparently has no idea how 40k plays.
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How is he wrong? That is exactly how IGUG works. Of course it's dependent on how the game is played, and the type of terrain. There's all kinds of factors. But if we are talking about just the system itself which is the only variable we are interested in then that's exactly how it plays out. You have the most number of models, therefore you have the most rules and activations to resolve, and therefor the most potential damage. I don't know what 40k games you've been playing where the later rounds take longer and are more impactful but I've never seen it. By round 3 units are very solidly dug into their objectives, or the balance of power has shifted in such a way that it's clear which fights will and wont be won. Maybe it's not 100% because, of course, you can always roll 1s or 6s. But the later rounds are definitely shorter and mostly going through the motions. There aren't many decisions available to you by round 4, especially if you're losing.

IGUG does naturally favor the first turn, because of course it does. Your opponent isn't even allowed to play the game yet, and you are allowed to move and shoot with everything. Every model you kill is less damage that your opponent can deal back. That is why we cover the table in L-shaped ruins. I'm not denying that there is still a huge advantage to going second, but that's more to do with how we build competitive terrain, and liter the board with L-shaped ruins. We know that IGUG favors first turn and these are adjustments we make to try and mitigate that. Arguably it goes too far. It still doesn't change that the first turn, regardless of who goes first is the longest and most impactful. If first turn doesn't decimate their opponent, then second turn is going to decimate their opponent who was forced to move into exposed positions.

The red chart is exactly the reason for most of the major changes in 10th edition. 9th edition especially was so lethal that the game was over by round 2. 10th edition has made armies a little more survivable so that the game looks more like the yellow chart, but it in no ways changes the curve, only smooths it out.
 
Building some Wave Serpents and Falcons and the kit is so strange.

- Its from 1997 and/or 2004 from the sprues so im spending a lot of time scraping and sanding mould lines. Dire avengers were this bad too. Some weird warping too but that kinda adds to character i guess.
- it uses an odd peg system for a rotating turret which looks like it can snap with no warning and if it does, it snaps into a part you cant access. However, its absolutely perfect for magnetising making movement smooth (i will do this)
- the pilot looks more mon-keigh than knife ear as if its a spare from an imperium kit.
- it has a door you can open like the rhino but whereas the rhino has an interesting inside you can paint up, it has nothing. Its like 3 small subsections then youre staring into an empty part. (ill probs glue it shut)
- the weapons arent glued on, but sit on a rod and youre supposed to glue the outside shell to keep it in place. Again, oddly perfect for magnets (I will do this)
- It seems designed for sub-assembly but in a horrible way. Bottom, top, pilot and turret painted before putting it all together. I think you could get away with doing it in 1 if you glue door shut and happy to work with the cockpit in a tight area. I think ill just build it with magnetised turret being the only subassembly, toughing it out with the pilot.

In saying this, its been a good experience in building and I love the designs so I'm not giving up. I also got 2 for a good deal and they shipped me 4 by mistake so that may be clouding my opinions.
 
Mr Clark said:
Building some Wave Serpents and Falcons and the kit is so strange.

- Its from 1997 and/or 2004 from the sprues so im spending a lot of time scraping and sanding mould lines. Dire avengers were this bad too. Some weird warping too but that kinda adds to character i guess.
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The original Falcon chassis was upgraded with a WS resin kit from forgeworld, later sold together as the Wave Serpent we know today. You can still find the older (but not oldest) WS model which has the stubby serpent vanes up front and that connected bridgee piece between both frontal prongs.
Mr Clark said:
- the weapons arent glued on, but sit on a rod and youre supposed to glue the outside shell to keep it in place. Again, oddly perfect for magnets (I will do this)
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Before you undertake to magnetizing, make sure you flat-sand those connecting spots for the magnets, otherwise when you hook them up the weapons will aim askew or centered. The outside of the WS turret has these "shields" that also need magnets to sandwich your weapon options, so all in all 4 magnets per side.
Mr Clark said:
- It seems designed for sub-assembly but in a horrible way. Bottom, top, pilot and turret painted before putting it all together. I think you could get away with doing it in 1 if you glue door shut and happy to work with the cockpit in a tight area. I think ill just build it with magnetised turret being the only subassembly, toughing it out with the pilot.
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You could also not glue the upper hull until you've cleared every interior detail, leave it for last. I didn't care about the sparse interior so I installed a tiny magnet "button" into the rear passenger door, just to have the option of either opened or closed. By far the best thing I did was mount the thing on a steel screw rod, coated and joined with washers and nuts, because that plastic mounting is a snap accident waiting to happen.
 
augment said:
By far the best thing I did was mount the thing on a steel screw rod, coated and joined with washers and nuts, because that plastic mounting is a snap accident waiting to happen.
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This can't be overemphasised. The big (60mm) flight stand is far from ideal for anything this big with its stock stalk.
p1138 said:
First he claims there's an advantage to going first, which... no there isn't. If anything there's a reason GW changed it to winner of the die roll goes first rather than picks, to eliminate people constantly choosing to go 2nd.
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It'll mostly come down to missions, but there is a bit of an inherent first-turn advantage that does warrant design consideration. Changing it to going first rather than picking was to prevent winning that roll from being even more game-deciding and allowing players to pick second in the smaller set of circumstances where it did win out. That said, GW has been actively balancing to try and get around it - the 9e change to have the second player score at the end of the final turn did a lot to help and they've been going back and forth on smaller changes since - but it's difficult; even chess has a slight advantage to white (and that's more AA than IGOUGO).
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These were the first-turn win rates in early 10e - most missions had a first-turn advantage, although most weren't large enough to be particularly relevant.
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That then swung pretty consistently against the first turn for a good while. I haven't seen newer stats since challenger cards were abandoned, so I couldn't say the current state of things, but the overall point remains that the second player being advantaged has been the result of deliberately-introduced asymmetry to try and counteract the first-turn advantage going too far.
 
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