Was universal suffrage a mistake?

[The High Prophet of Truth]

Cringe.

Silence infidel, before I get my shoe.

 

[TFT-A9]

If not everyone gets to vote, who should vote? Should the right be inheritable, or should there be a selection process for it?

Ideally, people would be learning about things in school that they would end up voting on as adults. Ideally, people would have to pass a test that shows at least a basic level of understanding of the political system before they're allowed to participate in it via voting.

We do not live in an ideal world, though.

We live in a world with mass media campaigns run by people that are effectively unaccountable, and we live in a world where people who vote are dumb and lazy enough to accept whatever these campaigns say uncritically and use that information/misinformation to make decisions that (in theory) alter the course of not only their own lives but the lives of others. We live in a world where people are not just imperfect, they're HILARIOUSLY so and they've embraced their advanced states of mental infirmity and dysfunction as wisdom, truth and positive qualities that demand a certain degree of genuflection from everyone around them. And this shows no signs of changing for the better.

 

[Dojima's Dragon]

The Founders were correct in their observation that the average person cannot understand the issues well enough to make sound decisions.

There's no stopping it now though, it's now going to be a race to the bottom to see who can give the citizens more free stuff than the other. Don't get me wrong, I like free stuff. But it's not sustainable in the long run if limits are not put in place.

DUKE NUKEM FOR PRESIDENT 2024

 

[Demonslayer1776]

Yes, though I think people have a tendency to associate it with poor criteria. Almost every time you hear someone bring this up they just have some generic IQ or education argument which would be a bad criteria and sampling of the actual country. Voting should be limited to or weighted in favor of the people who have an actual investment in the country. Its really pretty nonsensical that you can have a foreign immigrant fresh off the boat having an equal say in changing the direction of a country compared to someone who has lived and grown up there for their entire life. I personally think that the best solution would be a weighted voting system that gave more of a say to people who are productive and have a personal investment in the countries future over people who largely take and have no ties. For example, a boost to ones vote if they are financially independent, are native born to the country, serve in the military, have children, etc. Consequentially, a reduction to the influence of a vote for people with less investment or productivity, such as long term welfare recipients, dual citizenship, and any foreign loyalty. Anyone who has the ability to vote should also have to swear fealty to the nation and its principals. This type of approach would do a good job of weakening subversive forces who seek to change the core values of a country, as well as minimize the damages of low time preference voters, since people who have a reason to care about the country long term are given more influence.

 

[L50LasPak]

I think people forget why humans invented things like aristocracies and other ruling classes in the first place. The fact that they were unequal and prone to abuse is impossible to argue with, but its obvious that the system of democracy we invented to deal with that isn't really any better. In some cases its vulnerable to manifesting the exact same inequalities that we were already dealing with under a landed aristocracy in the first place. Its clear that the system has failed, but too many people are still benefitting from it to effect change on the scale we need.

 

[Un Platano]

Counterargument: This man is qualified to vote under non-universal suffrage because he is a wealthy landowner.

If we need a criteria to determine who is intelligent enough to make informed voting decisions, wealth-based measures ain't it.

 

[Duke Nukem]

DUKE NUKEM FOR PRESIDENT 2024

Honestly, even the DNF/Randy Pitchford/Gearbox Software version of Duke would be a serious step up from the trash pile of "presidents" we normally get.

 

[Bassomatic]

Just read HHH nigga, like didn't you see voting is just a failed god?

I shouldn't just leave only a meme/joke in regards to a DT thread. But yes yes it was, even in the US it's never meant to be since day one felons and slaves etc couldn't vote.

There's a great old greek saying "a wise man plants trees to never sit in their shade" Now a days it's "racist and sexist" when only land owning males could vote. Well, they had nothing in this world aside their little farm so taking care of it meant taking care of their familes, would you sell your kids out for 200 bucks? Some shitty people would but most wouldn't, so voting was "safe" now it's who can promise more and deliver less, blaming the other team.

US is way too big for direct democracy too. The idea is incredible and star trek rad, everyone has one goal to see things get better and healthier, but we know that's not real. So really the vote is just what forefathers warned us, mob rule at this point.

 

[Thumb Butler]

Only transgender, black, and second-generation wealthy Asians (who have never been to Asia but still speak for the billions of Asians worldwide) with a verified and "culturally sensitive" Twitter account should be allowed to vote.

 

[Bland Crumbs]

What's the benefit of giving almost every single citizen in a nation the right to vote? It's not that I believe certain demographics of people shouldn't vote, my main concern is whether or not the people who vote are informed enough to make decisions for the country that are actually good. Should there be some way to prove that you're qualified to make those types of decisions beforehand? Because the vast majority of voters seem to have no idea what they're doing.

Granted, I can see how gatekeeping the right to vote based on "knowledge" alone can also result in an authoritarian government restricting it to only people who agree with said government. So, I'm not sure what a good solution would be to the massive amounts of uninformed voters. Though this seems to be less of a problem among local elections than it is with national ones, because if people bother to vote in their local elections, they generally have a good grasp of what's going on with those candidates.

Pretty obviously it was a mistake. Decades of slide kind of prove it was but ya know....everyone is equal right? Anyone could have done what I did and my grandfather did and start a business on their own back....must have been that white privilege check I still have not received.

Nothing is a worse idea than giving people with no part in the productivity of the country a voice in how it operates. If you do not pay federal taxes maybe you should not have a vote. Might incentivize people to do better but what do I know I am just a bigot who will see my taxes go up and receive no fucking benefit.

I see myself removing my business from the US in the next five years. I am certainly not Amazon but it is a chunk of change out of a certain state's coffers. Enjoy progits.

 

[knobslobbin]

Voting hasn't mattered for a long time. The only way to matter was to be born into the tribe and be inducted into the cult of moloch. You're probably from a flyover state, so don't worry about it cattle.

 

[Cpl. Long Dong Silver]

Land owning male whites only. It was good enough for 1776 and its good enough for now.

You can count Asians as white in this scenario.

 

[mindlessobserver]

 

[Pokemonquistador2]

I think the time for large central governments is past. Areas should organize at a local level, with everyone participating in the government having a say in how it's run. The primary problem this would solve is keeping rural areas from being pushed around by populous urban centers that have no cultural/psychological connection to them. These smaller, local governments could make alliances with other governments, exchanging goods and services and assisting with each other's security.

Yeah, I know. I just invented Feudalism. I also think this is what government is growing closer to by the day, because of the hoggish behavior of urban centers and the over-encroachment of centralized government. You can only burn down your own cities for so long before all the producers leave it for greener pastures, leaving the mobs (whose only purpose is to cow the productive into obeying) to fend for themselves.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

It should be one man, one vote. I am that man, and I should have that vote.

 

[rotten apple]

The ignorant and spiteful are far more easily swayed than rational and intelligent people. The former also always outnumber the latter. So as far as mob rule is concerned and in the interest of our betters it was not at all a mistake but a calculated move. It allows those in control of the media to have enormous leverage in an election. The votes don't even need to be real so long as they have a large enough group of people willing to accept the results. Although you as a free thinking individual are pretty screwed.

 

[Alba gu brath]

Would happen due to the simple fact that it'd require constant policing of the under groupings from protesting and the likes. Whilst stupid will vote, it's better for them to waste their vote stupidly, than to sperg out and possibly cause even more stupid to become a bigger problem. Think the civil rights era, no way you could have kept what was in place without a proto-militia or terrorist group forming from angry blacks. Hell, lets go further back, include poor buggers as well, you'd just be adding to the number of possible revolt'rs. And in a country where there's a ton of guns, mibbies a good idea to avoid setting them off at you.

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

I don't think you deserve the right to vote unless you're a landowner. Why should a childless bugman living in a San Franciscan $3000/mo pokeball apartment have any say in a future they have no stake in? Frankly, they haven't invested enough to earn their say.

 

[Stoneheart]

Woman can vote, same for undesirables. the more important thing is that only white protestant males are allowed to rule.
Catholic lawmakers have the same poor working ethic and moral character as other catholics.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Voting hasn't mattered for a long time.

Haven't we just had 4 years proving the opposite in the US? Look at how many Republicans personally and politically despised Trump, but fell in line with him anyway because those pesky voters loved him.