Business We have a powerful weapon to fight inflation: price controls. It’s time we use it - Emperor Diocletian and President Maduro approves this message.

We have a powerful weapon to fight inflation: price controls. It’s time we use it​

Isabella Weber

We used price controls after inflation sky-rocketed after the second world war. There’s a strong case for doing so again now

Wed 29 Dec 2021 11.20 GMT

Inflation is near a 40-year high. Central banks around the world just promised to intervene. However, a critical factor that is driving up prices remains largely overlooked: an explosion in profits. In 2021, US non-financial profit margins have reached levels not seen since the aftermath of the second world war. This is no coincidence. The end of the war required a sudden restructuring of production which created bottlenecks similar to those caused by the pandemic. Then and now large corporations with market power have used supply problems as an opportunity to increase prices and scoop windfall profits. The Federal Reserve has taken a hawkish turn this month. But cutting monetary stimulus will not fix supply chains. What we need instead is a serious conversation about strategic price controls – just like after the war.

Today economists are divided into two camps on the inflation question: team Transitory argues we ought not to worry about inflation since it will soon go away. Team Stagflation urges for fiscal restraint and a raise in interest rates. But there is a third option: the government could target the specific prices that drive inflation instead of moving to austerity which risks a recession.


To use a metaphor: if your house is on fire, you would not want to wait until the fire eventually dies out. Neither do you wish to destroy the house by flooding it. A skillful firefighter extinguishes the fire where it is burning to prevent contagion and save the house. History teaches us that such a targeted approach is also possible for price increases.

The White House Council of Economic Advisers suggests that the best historical analogy for today’s inflation is the aftermath of the second world war. Then and now there was pent up demand thanks to high household savings. During the war this was a result of rising incomes and rationing; during Covid-19 that of stimulus checks and shutdowns. At both times supply chains were disrupted. This is as far as the White House advisers’ interpretation of the parallel between the two episodes goes. What they do not tell us is that the inflation after the war was not without an alternative.

During the second world war the Roosevelt administration imposed strict price controls and instituted the Office of Price Administration. In comparison with the first world war, price rises were low, while the increase in output was almost beyond imagination. After the war, the question was what to do with the price controls. Should they be released in one big bang as southern Democrats, Republicans and big business were urging? Or did price controls have a role to play in the transition to a postwar economy?

Some of the most distinguished American economists of the 20th century called for a continuation of price controls in the New York Times. This included the likes of Paul Samuelson, Irving Fisher, Frank Knight, Simon Kuznets, Paul Sweezy and Wesley Mitchell, as well as 11 former presidents of the American Economic Association. The reasons they presented for price controls also apply to our present situation.

They argued that as long as bottlenecks made it impossible for supply to meet demand, price controls for important goods should be continued to prevent prices from shooting up. The tsar of wartime price controls, John Kenneth Galbraith, joined these calls. He explained “the role of price controls” would be “strategic”. “No more than the economist ever supposed will it stop inflation,” he added. “But it both establishes the base and gains the time for the measures that do.”

President Truman was aware of the risks of ending price controls. On 30 October 1945, he warned that after the first world war, the US had “simply pulled off the few controls that had been established, and let nature take its course”. And he urged, “The result should stand as a lesson to all of us. A dizzy upward spiral of wages and the cost of living ended in the crash of 1920 – a crash that spread bankruptcy and foreclosure and unemployment throughout the Nation.” Nevertheless, price controls were pulled in 1946, again triggering inflation and a boom-bust cycle.

Today, there is once more a choice between tolerating the ongoing explosion of profits that drives up prices or tailored controls on carefully selected prices. Price controls would buy time to deal with bottlenecks that will continue as long as the pandemic prevails. Strategic price controls could also contribute to the monetary stability needed to mobilize public investments towards economic resilience, climate change mitigation and carbon-neutrality. The cost of waiting for inflation to go away is high. Senator Manchin’s withdrawal from the Build Back Better Act demonstrates the threat of a shrinking policy space at a time when large scale government action is in order. Austerity would be even worse: it risks manufacturing stagflation. We need a systematic consideration of strategic price controls as a tool in the broader policy response to the enormous macroeconomic challenges instead of pretending there is no alternative beyond wait-and-see or austerity.

  • Isabella Weber is an assistant professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and the author of How China Escaped Shock Therapy
SOURCE
 
Not price control, but profit control. It costs Coca-Cola around £1 to make a 24 pack crate of coke. It's sold for £7 in shops. Do they need £6 of profit when £3 would do?

I don't know what it's like in yankyland but in the UK (In my experience) the rule of thumb has been 'every time a product is touched, add 35% mark up'. Would it kill the world if we, even temporarily, set the maximum profit/mark up, at say 15%?
Yes it would, you economically illiterate dumbfuck Br*tisher

Member the last time we had price controls in Murica? Worked out real well for the consoomer and for Jimmeh Carter

Price controls inevitably cause scarcity and higher prices. Every. Single. Time. Fuck off commies
 
Let's take a more popular example of the IPhone. The BOM is, what, <$100 and they sell for $1000+?
What more are we supposed to do? There's a free market in cell phones and there are plenty of phones out there that don't have the Apple Retard Tax priced into them. If people buy Apple anyway, we can't really save them from themselves.
That's really the answer to all your questions. If the markup on Coke is too high, drink something else. And if you refuse to drink anything but Coke no matter what the price, maybe the price is right after all.
 
I just said, the transport costs are not included. Over heads, wages, packaging etc etc all are included in that price. Yes, partly thanks to the economy of scale.

What it costs the company to make it, is the cost it costs to make it. Slapping 35% mark everything it is touched is possibly (my original point) a little too high and maybe, to help (I'm not an economist so I'm asking, would it help?) Limit the mark up on goods to a flat rate of X%
Ok, let’s put this another way. And I can’t be fucked to pound post on a phone so we can pretend it’s 1:1 for dollars to pounds. We can also pretend it’s right that it costs Coke $1 to make a 24 pack and your shop is selling it for $7. We will also take your 15% margin cap for the final cost to the store.

The store will pay you $6.09 (15% margin on that hits your $7) to drive your car to your Coke bottling plant. There, you will pay $1.15 to Coke for a 24 pack. You will then drive it to your local shop. Did you make money after factoring in your time (counting dead time waiting for Coke to do their procedures, the store being too busy to sign or pay your or whatever), your transportation costs (including, fuel, depreciation of your vehicle, insurance, etc)?
 
I just said, the transport costs are not included. Over heads, wages, packaging etc etc all are included in that price. Yes, partly thanks to the economy of scale.
There's an lot more to worry about than operational costs, such as expansion and marketing.
I'm just suggesting that maybe the companies that make billions in profit a year take a hit and only make 1 billion or 500 million profit, across the industry, rather than the masses getting shagged
You don't really understand how stuff like federal income tax or the occasional lawsuit is paid for, right? Along with buying and maintaining an fleet of delivery trucks? How international shipping works. How having your merchandise sit in an warehouse is costing you money?
 
Yes they do, I'm just suggesting and I could be totally wrong here, I'm limited in experience of finances in terms of economics, I'm just suggesting that maybe the companies that make billions in profit a year take a hit and only make 1 billion or 500 million profit, across the industry, rather than the masses getting shagged
Things are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. The idea that some government bureaucrat can decide the price better than the market has failed every time it has been tried. You want breadlines? That's how you get them.

Also, in case you didn't know, things got severely fucked last year when it came to production and dizzy. I guaran-fucking-tee you that a substantial amount of that money is going into making the things. Your little hypothetical is flawed because it used 2019 costs. It ain't 2019 anymore. Getting shit done costs. Overhead. Inflation. Staffing. Supply chain. Leave and labor. New equipment.

You are comparing the Gulf Coast before to after the hurricane passed through. No shit things are going to cost more.
Does bezos (the financial hitler) need another few billion? Or how about Hitlers son, Bill Gates. Does he need another few billion that he's going to use to sterilise Africans?
That isn't actual money. That is the value of their business. Your money isn't actually going into a big Scrooge McDuck vault where they store it. It's the business's profit, not the owners. They then disperse it according to contracts dividends and salaries and whatever. Whatever is left goes back into the business.
 
Not price control, but profit control. It costs Coca-Cola around £1 to make a 24 pack crate of coke. It's sold for £7 in shops. Do they need £6 of profit when £3 would do?

I don't know what it's like in yankyland but in the UK (In my experience) the rule of thumb has been 'every time a product is touched, add 35% mark up'. Would it kill the world if we, even temporarily, set the maximum profit/mark up, at say 15%?

Do you really think the average grocery store has a 20% profit margin so that they can survive cutting down their markup from 35% to 15% ?
They do not.

The only thing that would result in would be:
* grocery store would have to fire people because they can no longer afford the current staff levels. They would likely also need to drop quite a lof of the products they carry as they are no longer profitable to sell. Especially perishables like fruit and veggies where spoilage is high.
 
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The store will pay you $6.09 (15% margin on that hits your $7) to drive your car to your Coke bottling plant. There, you will pay $1.15 to Coke for a 24 pack.
You know, there's nothing stopping the company from charging retail price at the plant.
That isn't actual money. That is the value of their business. Your money isn't actually going into a big Scrooge McDuck vault where they store it. It's the business's profit, not the owners. They then disperse it according to contracts dividends and salaries and whatever. Whatever is left goes back into the business.
I'm pretty sure similar shit is going on in the EU, besides this is Economics 101. How did you think people got rich through the stock market, or why Carnegie was an millionaire?
 
You know, there's nothing stopping the company from charging retail price at the plant.
Of course I know that. I was using his numbers: 15% max margin, Coke costs $1 to make, the store charges $7.
He will say “economies of scale” next and I will either start pointing out the capital costs and back office overhead associated with building a fleet or call him a faggot and move on. Probably the latter.
 
based.jpg


Iovius and the other Tetrarchs say:

Based!

This will make everyone a billionaire.
 
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Then and now there was pent up demand thanks to high household savings. During the war this was a result of rising incomes and rationing; during Covid-19 that of stimulus checks and shutdowns.
This is proof the stimulus checks failed. They should have only gone to people who were prevented from working, not people whose income was unaffected. It would not have been possible to turn the checks into savings.

I understand why the checks worked the way they did based on time constraints, but really they failed to target the right people.

You'd think a (assistant) professor of economics would know that price controls result in goods shortages? Nazi 'price commissars' were famously very good at managing the economy.
I originally wanted to post "OK but I get to be at the front of the line, and the author at the end". But that would warn her that there's a line and I'd have to race her.

Now that you've let the cat out of the bag however I CALL DIBS ON THE FRONT OF THE LINE

I'm just suggesting that maybe the companies that make billions in profit a year take a hit and only make 1 billion or 500 million profit, across the industry, rather than the masses getting shagged
Good news, at least with your coke example, you can live and die without ever drinking coke. If you're willing to make a sacrifice, it's not that hard to tank their profits. And really I wouldn't call it a sacrifice because you can go buy another vice with your savings.

He will say “economies of scale” next and I will either start pointing out the capital costs and back office overhead associated with building a fleet or call him a faggot and move on. Probably the latter.
Could also go with the thing where economies of scale can only go so far. I think they can produce the syrup in bulk, but then because transporting water is stupid they have to convert it into soda form relatively locally to reduce transportation costs. You can't really scale up the final soda-izing/packaging step beyond a certain level because if you do you increase the costs elsewhere.
 
Could also go with the thing where economies of scale can only go so far. I think they can produce the syrup in bulk, but then because transporting water is stupid they have to convert it into soda form relatively locally to reduce transportation costs. You can't really scale up the final soda-izing/packaging step beyond a certain level because if you do you increase the costs elsewhere.
I’m not buying the $1 thing, let alone it including depreciation or opex or really anything except ingredients, but whatever, I used his numbers to make a point.
 
I’m not buying the $1 thing, let alone it including depreciation or opex or really anything except ingredients, but whatever, I used his numbers to make a point.
Yeah, but you can't really compare the financial costs of manufacturing in the UK to America because VAT kicks up the price every time the product gets passed onto an different company. As for it being streamlined into just Coke buying the raw ingredients from farmers, I really don't know how it'll turn out because the Europeans like to do things the hard way, for some reason.
 
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Yeah, but you can't really compare the financial costs of manufacturing in the UK to America because VAT kicks up the price every time the product gets passed onto an different company. As for it being streamlined into just Coke buying the raw ingredients from farmers, I really don't know how it'll turn out because the Europeans like to do things the hard way, for some reason.
I know this, I’ve worked for multinationals - again, I was using his numbers. I never added reality to it as I didn’t need to. His own numbers fucked his argument without anything else.
 
I’m not buying the $1 thing, let alone it including depreciation or opex or really anything except ingredients, but whatever, I used his numbers to make a point.
If you want to focus on the $1 claim, I think the easiest way is to look at the aluminum cans.

Depending on which state you live in, your aluminum cans can be returned for 5 to 10 cents each. That adds up quickly, with a single 12-pack of soda netting you from 60 cents to $1.20 in returns.
He's talking a 24 pack, so $1.20 to $2.40 depending on the state.

Online converter says 1 GBP is $1.35 USD

Coke could make more money sitting in a state that highly rewards recycling aluminum cans if they just sat there and milked the system with empty cans than they could selling soda in the UK, in theory, if they can make 24 empty cans for that cheap.
 
If you want to focus on the $1 claim, I think the easiest way is to look at the aluminum cans.


He's talking a 24 pack, so $1.20 to $2.40 depending on the state.

Online converter says 1 GBP is $1.35 USD

Coke could make more money sitting in a state that highly rewards recycling aluminum cans if they just sat there and milked the system with empty cans than they could selling soda in the UK, in theory, if they can make 24 empty cans for that cheap.
Deposit is paid by the consumer and collected by the government. Producer would never see the money.
 
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It could work if people are willing to lie about it.
Money-making idea for an enterprising individual with larceny in his heart. Collect wine and liquor containers in Massachusetts where they are marked with the Maine deposit information but no deposit is charged, make the short trip to Maine and cash them in for 15 cents apiece. It's like Kramer and Newman's New York to Michigan plan but it actually makes sense economically.
 
Money-making idea for an enterprising individual with larceny in his heart. Collect wine and liquor containers in Massachusetts where they are marked with the Maine deposit information but no deposit is charged, make the short trip to Maine and cash them in for 15 cents apiece. It's like Kramer and Newman's New York to Michigan plan but it actually makes sense economically.
I was thinking more like produce cans, don't fill or sell them, just pretend they were used and redeem them.
 
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