Weightlifting for Kiwis - Discussion and support regarding the art of swole

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Hanging drywall after lower (:_(u guys rite though I'll just do it
if you don't a pump in your lower back don't do things that stress your lower back, like any compound movement. Go with machines, cables or DBs movements were you can brace your back or chest against a bench
stay away from squats and RDLs specially, they are just going to fuck your lower back for a couple days
 
Just do skullcrushers??????
I preffer tricep pushdowns rather than skullcrushers, when I do those I feel pain in my elbows and forehead :(
I think the general consensus is that for hypertrophy 5x5 strong lift and all those other programs aren't great. For strength building they're okay but super primitive once you learn how to program and especially now that you can just have AI give you almost professional personalized powerlifting or strongman coaching for free.
Yeah, volume (number of sets) is the best way to get beeg muscles, doing 5x5 works, but it doesn't work as well as other things, also if you don't do higher rep stuff then you will never be able to train with higher volume consistently, if you are doing 30 sets a week of chest and they are all super low rep, high intensity stuff then your connective tissue won't be able to handle it, it would be like trying to do the weekly mileage of someone than runs in zone 2 80% of the time, but trying to do it by always sprinting instead.
 
I think the general consensus is that for hypertrophy 5x5 strong lift
I disagree
the best program for hypertrophy is an upper-lower, 4 days a week where you individually target each muscle group for 6 sets per group, per session, in a moderate rep range (4-8, 6-10, 8-12), going to or close to failure (2RIR minimum).
compound movements are a relic of the past, not something to cling on like it's the hole point of hypertrophy. They can have their places if you are limited in equipment, but generally speaking they are not the best movements for hypertrophy. What does the Squat work? Quads AND glutes, lower back, shoulders and traps a little, hams and calves a little, abs a little. What is the first thing that gives out during a Squat? idk, it could be the lower back or it could be the quads. It's just not a very efficient movement to target the quads which I think is the point of doing Squats for hypertrophy
Jones, Mentzer, and Dorian were right
intensity baby
going to failure while screaming and being in pain afterwards is what grows big muscles
no pain no gain
 
Intensity does not mean going to failure, intensity is how close each individual rep is to your one-rep max. Intensity and volume are polar opposites of each other.
Also, Mentzer did a shitload of compound movements. He specifically liked them because of how many muscle groups they hit. His consolidated program was only 4 exercises, 2 of them were squats and deadlifts.
 
intensity is how close each individual rep is to your one-rep max.
that metric is not helpful if you are not a powerlifter. If your one rep max is 100kgs in one movement, and you train with 80kgs, at first that's going to be a good stimulant and 80% of your max, but after a while you get stronger and thus who knows what % of your max you are lifting, you have to go to either go to failure with 80kgs and use a doggy calculator online, or do a one rep max. Either way, if you are doing something like the Squat it is nonsensical to do that considering the risks and fatigue.
RPE is better, but it can be a little more confusing. If I leave 3 reps in the tank am at a 7 RPE or an 8 RPE? does it matter how tired I am that particular day? what if my next set feels harder?
The RIR is a better way of measuring intensity. By defining intensity by how close you are to failure you can much easily determine how much effort you put in each set, which is the hole point of measuring intensity. Plus with a little experience in going to failure (safely) you can get an easy understanding of what 1RIR or 2RIR feels like
Mentzer did a shitload of compound movements
he was on the right track, but not perfect
Ronnie did a bunch of high volume compound nonsense and got blown out. Lower volumes with high intensity seems to be the best way to gain muscle and avoid injury (which doesn't have to be the only reason why you go to the gym or train btw)
 
By defining intensity by how close you are to failure you can much easily determine how much effort you put in each set, which is the hole point of measuring intensity.
Defining intensity as how close you are to failure is useless. If you do a hundred reps of 45lbs with 3 RIR those RIR are completely different than if you do 12 reps at 225lbs also with 3 RIR. With the higher volume you've gotten closer to failure, theoretically higher intensity by your logic, but you've mostly just done cardio with some muscle fatigue. Intensity means each individual lift is harder.
 
There is no way to avoid DOMS unless you lift very light. Embrace it
When I first got into lifting I found working out every day really helped it. You are risking injuries and exhaustion so it really helps if you are young.
 
Defining intensity as how close you are to failure is useless. If you do a hundred reps of 45lbs with 3 RIR those RIR are completely different than if you do 12 reps at 225lbs also with 3 RIR. With the higher volume you've gotten closer to failure, theoretically higher intensity by your logic, but you've mostly just done cardio with some muscle fatigue. Intensity means each individual lift is harder.
any metric breaks at some point. But if you do a REASONABLE numbers of reps (>15) RIR works wonders, better than %1RM
also, I never said that volume =/= intensity
Suchomel et. al. (2021) have a great paper on the different measurements for training intensity, giving the ups and downs of a lot of methods, including %1RM, RPE and RIR.
 
Suchomel et. al. (2021) have a great paper on the different measurements for training intensity
"As the implementation of RPE/estimated repetitions in reserve is based more on subjective measures, it may be most effective when combined with other methods that include more objective measurements, such as %1RM or velocity-based training (VBT) to monitor and adjust training intensity effectively."

A completely subjective perception of how close you are to failure sounds like a noob trap to me
 
All powerlifters have been training by using RPE for decades and it works for them
 
RPE is different from RIR because the difference between RPE 10 and RPE 9 will not even be one rep, since IIRC 2 reps total is 98% of your 1RM, so using RIR will not be useful for people training for 1RMs, they need a measurement that says "That was super hard, but I could have added 5 pounds".

RIR is better for sets that are higher reps, RPE is subjective but only to a degree, you can always test your RPE 10 using safety measures, such as the safeties on your bench of a spotter, if you thought you could lift 10lbs more you can test it, if you fail then your last lift was RPE 10,

I like how the thread is now about volume vs intensity, which is all the rage in social media right now, I blame Mike Mentzer for this.


oh sweet a volumevsintensity thread.png
 
RPE is different from RIR because the difference between RPE 10 and RPE 9 will not even be one rep, since IIRC 2 reps total is 98% of your 1RM, so using RIR will not be useful for people training for 1RMs, they need a measurement that says "That was super hard, but I could have added 5 pounds".

RIR is better for sets that are higher reps, RPE is subjective but only to a degree, you can always test your RPE 10 using safety measures, such as the safeties on your bench of a spotter, if you thought you could lift 10lbs more you can test it, if you fail then your last lift was RPE 10,

I like how the thread is now about volume vs intensity, which is all the rage in social media right now, I blame Mike Mentzer for this.


View attachment 8654594
Yea, RPE-based training is closer to %1RM than it is to RIR
 
I'm a bit out of shape, but I got a trainer. These last few consecutive days I've been pushed to my limit. The workouts are good (push and pull followed by a mile on a steep incline) but I literally feel like I've been pushed down a mountain.

I got him to agree to let me have the day off to rest but how the hell do I rebuild myself for next time? Thanks kiwifits
 
I'm a bit out of shape, but I got a trainer. These last few consecutive days I've been pushed to my limit. The workouts are good (push and pull followed by a mile on a steep incline) but I literally feel like I've been pushed down a mountain.

I got him to agree to let me have the day off to rest but how the hell do I rebuild myself for next time? Thanks kiwifits
How long have you been back to training? Going balls to the wall right off the bat sounds like a surefire way to burn out and stop training. Regardless, best way to recover in my experience is to get a decent amount of sugar intake right after the workout to restore glycogen. 20g should be fine. You should also be aiming for about 1g of protein per pound of body weight each day. Consider taking 5g of creatine a day too (don't fall for the gummy scam, just buy powder). You'll put on like 5lbs really quickly but that's just because it increases your water retention.
 
"As the implementation of RPE/estimated repetitions in reserve is based more on subjective measures, it may be most effective when combined with other methods that include more objective measurements, such as %1RM or velocity-based training (VBT) to monitor and adjust training intensity effectively."

A completely subjective perception of how close you are to failure sounds like a noob trap to me
if you've never trained to failure and you don't know how that feels, yes
you should check what they say about 1RM on it's own
 
How long have you been back to training? Going balls to the wall right off the bat sounds like a surefire way to burn out and stop training. Regardless, best way to recover in my experience is to get a decent amount of sugar intake right after the workout to restore glycogen. 20g should be fine. You should also be aiming for about 1g of protein per pound of body weight each day. Consider taking 5g of creatine a day too (don't fall for the gummy scam, just buy powder). You'll put on like 5lbs really quickly but that's just because it increases your water retention.
It's only been a week, so far. I'll try that sugar trick, I've been minimizing sugar for the whole week.
 
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