Weightlifting for Kiwis - Discussion and support regarding the art of swole

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24nagging said:
What if the bar falls from their back and they don't let go? what if they fall over with the bar on the neck? what if they get pinned and don't know how to bail? the problem is not tearing, the problem is general discoordination and clumsiness
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Jesus I hope you're not a personal trainer or a physiotherapist, because you underestimate beginner lifters as if they have the IQ of a fucking tadpole.
24nagging said:
a beginner doesn't have the strength or coordination to lift 45lbs over his head, specially those who are obese.
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Obese people are literally stronger than skinny people. An obese beginner would definitely have enough strength to lift 45lbs over their head lmao.
 
The Stranger said:
hese things that move my body are getting in the way of moving my body!
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in deed
The Stranger said:
they are meant to be used together.
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and yet we can isolate them, odd; and they grow better by doing so, odd
obviously that when you push you use your hole body, but if you want bigger pecs you are better off making sure the limiting factor is the pec and not the tricep, since you don't care about triceps, you care about pecs. This is bodybuilding 101
whatsupwthat said:
beginner lifters as if they have the IQ of a fucking tadpole.
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if they are black/hispanic/indian they probably do
 
Saw one of the early morning regulars break 400 on flat bench a few days ago and it was badass.
Torque Wheeler said:
You guys are done with you summer cut...right?
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As of last week, yup. Numbers finally started to drop a bit at the very end so I'm done for now.

Having actual problems going back to eating more, doing everything fasting for 8 weeks REALLY makes you notice the difference between fasting and not because it's a shitload easier to do everything fasting when you're used to it. Nutrition is weird. Might try to actually rework the higher calories around the same two-meal schedule I was using for the fast and see how that goes for a week or two.
 
My range of motion regarding squats is not the best, I will admit. Granted, I am not just dipping a single inch and shooting back up. I feel the soreness in my glutes and hamstrings the next day after squats, so at least it's not completely dogshit. Still, I can't really go ass to grass or very deep down. Even when lightening the weights, it's still hard to go deeper down than I usually do. Maybe it's a mobility issue.

Also, while I will be called a HOMOSEXUAL for saying this, I am not a fan of the deadlift at all. Generally anything that requires a barbell, with the exception of the overhead press. There used to be a trap bar and it was fun doing deadlifts with it but then it disappeared into the void. For the back my main exercise is the pull-up. Can already do 10 reps, gonna aim for 12 and then slap some weights with that funny looking belt to progress further.
 
green&brown said:
My range of motion regarding squats is not the best,
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squat depth limitation can be for a number of issues. It might be ankle mobility, hip mobility, or just plain old lack of balance (can't find the vid, but basically you just do a squat with the weight in front of you and see if you can hit depth, if so, you need to get comfortable with the weight on your back by finding the right center of balance and shoulder placement (not every squat has to be high bar)).
pana also has good videos on form
green&brown said:
I will be called a HOMOSEXUAL for saying this, I am not a fan of the deadlift at all
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you are not, and that's fine. I've been preaching that for a while now. The deadlift can screw you up, who likes having a lower back pump? Plus it's not as hypertrophic as just doing more isolationist exercises (like the squat or barbell row or hip thrusts, etc), and it's not a primary back movement at all. Your legs get a bigger stimulus than your back, your back doesn't even contract.
 
green&brown said:
My range of motion regarding squats is not the best, I will admit.
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I fucking hate squats, it brings bad memories, I'm from London and when I was still in highschool I decided to start lifting, I was doing the basic upper/lower routine they give you at the gym, then this black guy approached me out of nowhere, started touching my muscles, measuring them and told me to do some squats to check my technique, and then told me to squat his bodyweight whie checking me out, I heard he did this to a lot of young men and even got criminal convictions for harrasement, they called him purple something.
 
Jerk Sausage said:
Deadlift is the best lift. Your back will be fine unless you're a retard. Record yourself once or twice to form check and then listen to your body. Don't be a pussy. I swear there is some kind of anti-deadlift psyop that is preventing men from doing the one lift that alone turns you into an actual man.
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the deadlift is the best lift if you like it, are built for it, and/or you are a powerlifter. Otherwise, why bother? there are a million different movements that train the muscles involved in the DL but better. This applies for every exercise, even the machine ones
 
GreenTips said:
What do you mean built for it? If you have 2 arms and 2 legs?
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People with short legs have a much easier time squatting for the same reason that people with long arms are really good at deadlifting, you can still squat with long legs, but you need a wider stance and it's not as good of an exercise.


Long arms make it way easier to deadlift because locking out requires less ROM, but long arms make you shit at chest and back exercises because you need more ROM, different body types make certain exercises easier or harder.
 
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Arm/leg length doesn't matter fuck all unless you're trying to compete. Yea, someone who has ideal proportions for a lift is going to be able to lift more, but the weight on the bar doesn't mean jack shit for the average gym-goer. What matters is how much effort you put into the lift. The only exception to this is if you're so far out of whack (99.9% of people aren't) that you're risking an injury (you're not unless you're ego lifting). If you're actually avoiding a compound lift just because you think you have a tiny mechanical disadvantage at it then you need to get over yourself.
 
The Stranger said:
Arm/leg length doesn't matter
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it does if your goal is to grow a certain muscle group. So if you have long legs and short arms your squat is going to suffer because you have to a longer ROM, which means more stress for the other muscles that are not your quads. The quads can take a lot more stress than your erectors for example, so your erectors are probably going to be your limiting factor before your quads. AKA not the point of the movement. Also, if you have short arms it might be uncomfortable to put your hands behind close together to make your upper back contraction so you can fit in the bar, specially if you go for low bar. Also also, depending on the anatomy of your hips you may even need to have a very open stance on the squat to even hit bottom since your hip bone is in the way, which can easily lead to hip impingement (which is not fun and can make your life miserable)
Now if you do leg extensions...

Again, again, I don't have a problem with the squat, I have a problem with the squat as a "must do lift for legs", specially for beginners, and specially for hypertrophy recommendations/optimization
 
24nagging said:
the deadlift is the best lift if you like it, are built for it, and/or you are a powerlifter. Otherwise, why bother?
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Every single human being with all limbs intact is built to pick things up off the ground. Whether you're picking up a pencil, a bag of groceries, or an atlas stone, everyone from age 1 to 100 needs every single muscle involved in the deadlift. Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with the human need to move our meat bag bodies through time and space
24nagging said:
there are a million different movements that train the muscles involved in the DL but better. This applies for every exercise, even the machine ones
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Per time unit, tell me which movement trains more muscles involved in the DL better? If it applies to every excercise, do the same for squats. Tell me which group of isolated exercises a beginner should do to replace these two movements that will advance their total body progress more efficiently. You make the argument "only if you're a powerlifter". If your goal is to not to be in the gym for hours daily, what do I replace them with that is more efficient?
 
Jerk Sausage said:
Per time unit, tell me which movement trains more muscles involved in the DL better?
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Now that you say that, it triggers me how people do low volume in general, but specially for things such as DLs and squats, when I was deadlifting once every 10 days (I learned that from Eddie Hall) I was doing 8 sets per session, why do only 3 sets? you will get more hypertrophy doing more sets, in my case I would do down sets, after about 4 or 5 sets I would lower the weight and increase the reps, and I was adding 1,75kg on each side every 10 days.
 
Jerk Sausage said:
Per time unit, tell me which movement trains more muscles involved in the DL better?
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let me put it like this
X movement trains A, B, C, D and E muscles. It recruits A at 20% efficiency, B at 20%, C at 20%, D at 50% and E at 100%. Now, which muscle got the most mechanical tension? which muscle got the most stimulus? If you go at 0RIR, which muscle would grow more over time? E obviously, with A, B, C and D lagging behind
Now because X trains so many muscles it is a very fatiguing and taxing movement that limits your energy for the rest of your work out.

instead let's say that you have Y, that trains A at 80% and B at 100%, and Z that trains C and D at the same rate. Thus they allow you to train those muscles at a better recruitment rate with more energy to spare in other movements.

this is the logic behind the limitations of the DL. You have to target the muscle to make the muscle grow. The DL targets no specific muscle, which makes it a bad movement for your quads, hams, lats, calves, or biceps. If you wanna grow those muscles, you are better off training those muscles than dicking around with the DL, unless you like it and you just wanna do it. That's fine too
but my point is that it is not an efficient movement for hypertrophy. You get very little in return for a whole lot of systemic fatigue
Jerk Sausage said:
If it applies to every excercise, do the same for squats.
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I do. Squats are worse at targeting your quads than a leg press or hack squat, and those are worse than a leg extension. The more stable a movement is the better it is at targeting a muscle
You can see how idiotic unstable movements with bosu or yoga balls are for quads hypertrophy, because they are so unstable. Well because the barbell moves freely, the squat is a less stable movement than a leg press whose path is fixed in a specific plane of motion.
This is something bodybuilders figured out a long time a go
Now the problem with beginners is that the squat is a very technical and frustrating movement that they are better off learning the biomechanics of the muscles and their own body at first and then later on figure out what they actually like training.
People have to like the gym to keep going, forcing them to do stuff they are bad at and they don't like is not the way to achieve that
Jerk Sausage said:
If your goal is to not to be in the gym for hours daily, what do I replace them with that is more efficient?
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If you do DL with any amount of effort you are going to have to spend a lot of time resting. Between 3m to 5m, maybe more. And those are just the work sets, you also have to do warmups, and actually loading the bar, looking for the weights. And then you have to unload the bar if you don't wanna be a tumor in the gym
Instead you can go to a machine, pin the weight right away, do the warm ups, do the working sets, rest 2m, maybe 3, and go at it again. And you can leave the machine as is (usually).
I would argue it takes less time to isolate the muscles of the DL than doing the DL
Jerk Sausage said:
Every single human being with all limbs intact is built to pick things up off the ground
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so people are better at picking stuff of the ground than others. Just like some are better at running, swimming, wrestling, than others because of genes
 
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