Well Written LGBT+ Characters - Who is/what makes a well written homosexual?
- Thread starter Gingervitis
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Poison from SF is a good example of a transgender character done RIGHT!
Sure she’s a low hanging fruit when it comes to good trans characters in media
Sure she’s a low hanging fruit when it comes to good trans characters in media
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Man, reading through all 11 pages of this thread made me nostalgic for the good ol' days when characters were characters, being actually integral to the story itself, and not just there to check something on a woke list. Guess that's what happens when you write for no reason other than woke asspats and recognition from Twitter, instead of writing because you actually have a good story to tell or any passion for the subject.
Anyway, I actually remembered a few others to add.
Firstly, Jude Weatherbourne, the Lawful Good Paladin Mini-Chad from The Age Of Darkness book series.
And then, for any weebs out there, the gays in Given are pretty well written too, tbh.
Other than those examples, I haven't really come across anything that hasn't already been mentioned. Definitely have seen a lot of characters written to just outright pander to the LGBT community lately, but none that are developed enough to actually be called "characters" and not "propaganda caricatures".
Kinda sad it's come to this, really.
*I contained all my sperging and shit into spoilers for convenience.
Hopefully evidence I've been lurking long enough. Finally decided to join the farms today
Anyway, I actually remembered a few others to add.
Firstly, Jude Weatherbourne, the Lawful Good Paladin Mini-Chad from The Age Of Darkness book series.
Like many of the other characters already mentioned by others here, a lot of Jude being a "well-written LGBT character" is because he's so much more than just a hormonal dude pondering which dick he wants and how to get it. Fuck, being gay isn't even really something I'd put as a word descriptor of his character if he had one of those 'OC DONUT STEAL' pics on Tumblr. However, unlike the whole "Dumbledore Debacle", where him being gay isn't even in the book and came as an afterthought in an interview, Jude's interest in men is something that's vaguely hinted at in his early chapters. But instead of just shoving it in your face with how much he secretly loves his best friend but he shouldn't because "FoRbIdDeN lOvE!" and whatever else, the book does a pretty good job at easing you into it, keeping the reader at the same pace as Jude's character, so you only learn the depth of his feelings when Jude finally decides to accept them himself.
While his sexuality may play some part in his opinions or some decisions, and yeah he's got a love interest to have growing moments with, there's not a single time he's pouting and pining over a boy for chapters on end. The guy is the Keeper of the Word, basically the leader of the entire Paladin Order in that world, he's got violent Heretics to worry about, he's gotta protect the Last Prophet, he's gotta prepare for a full-on war as well as a possible undead army issue. He may be gay, but he's got more on his plate to worry about, and I appreciate the author actually realized that and decided to make him into, y'know, a character rather than just a whiny and pining twink we see so often. And I doubly appreciate the author for not making any of the romances in the story the main focus of the story, but instead focusing on what really matters; like the preparations for war, the Final Prophecy, political corruption and favoritism, and allll that other good shit in a fantasy book. The romances are just side plots meant to further develop a character, just as they should be.
The real kicker in all this though? The Age Of Darkness series is actually a YA franchise.
I'd say something about defying expectations, but. Well. I'm sure we all know how low the bar is for YA literature, let alone the "inclusive" YA that's trending right now.
While his sexuality may play some part in his opinions or some decisions, and yeah he's got a love interest to have growing moments with, there's not a single time he's pouting and pining over a boy for chapters on end. The guy is the Keeper of the Word, basically the leader of the entire Paladin Order in that world, he's got violent Heretics to worry about, he's gotta protect the Last Prophet, he's gotta prepare for a full-on war as well as a possible undead army issue. He may be gay, but he's got more on his plate to worry about, and I appreciate the author actually realized that and decided to make him into, y'know, a character rather than just a whiny and pining twink we see so often. And I doubly appreciate the author for not making any of the romances in the story the main focus of the story, but instead focusing on what really matters; like the preparations for war, the Final Prophecy, political corruption and favoritism, and allll that other good shit in a fantasy book. The romances are just side plots meant to further develop a character, just as they should be.
The real kicker in all this though? The Age Of Darkness series is actually a YA franchise.
I'd say something about defying expectations, but. Well. I'm sure we all know how low the bar is for YA literature, let alone the "inclusive" YA that's trending right now.
And then, for any weebs out there, the gays in Given are pretty well written too, tbh.
So far, I haven't seen anything really fetish-y in it at all, especially not by the typical yaoi standard (in the manga at least, which only has 3 volumes out so far; haven't seen the anime so can't confirm there). It's got some genuinely sweet moments and actual character/relationship building in it, instead of just the bean-flicking material seen in most yaoi shit. The artwork is really nice, the attention to detail on the instruments is pretty cool too for an fellow music nuts, and story's solid for what it is. Each member of the main four ensemble have their own distinct personalities, their own issues and insecurities, hobbies, and jobs away from each other. But perhaps most importantly, I never got the impression that a character was conceived with the writer's only thought being "This is my new gay OC!". Instead, it appears that the author here actually thought of these crazy, newfangled things like 'personality' and 'individuality' to create their characters. Surprise to no one, it actually works!
Anyway, the main endgame couple, Ritsuka and Mafuyu, don't even start out really caring much about each other. Matter of fact, it takes a little bit for them to go from basic acquaintances to 'Eh, he's okay', and then once they're more friendly, they stay like that for a good while to build on other things. Ritsuka is a 'no books, only music' type of guy that cares almost too much about people in his life, but then gets frustrated by how much he cares. He can be snarky and a bit stubborn, but never really crosses into immature level, which is so welcomed to me. Then, there's Mafuyu, who almost seems like he has an actual touch of the 'tism. He has such a hard time developing meaningful bonds with other people, doesn't talk much because he doesn't know how to express himself and thus just decides to be silent, he will straight up just run away from a situation if he doesn't know how to respond to it, he's very bluntly honest to everyone with no sense of how others will take it, and has a hard time not taking jokes as literal comments. The two bond together over something as simple as a guitar at first, and from there, everything feels like it develops at a very natural pace. No one's big, dark secret is leaked within the first couple of pages, no real pandering, no weird fetish shit. Just two older teens drawn to music for different reasons and getting closer because of it. Sure, one has more emotional baggage than the other, but that's also handled pretty well, imo.
Even the secondary couple, Haruki and Akihiko, don't fall victim to anything I'd consider bad writing, both having their own complete characterization and relationship focus outside of Ritsuka and Mafuyu's. Akihiko is known to be a womanizer (because bad boy with piercings), well-known to be hot-headed, passionate, competitive, and he comes off far more confident than he really is in both his skills and his life in general. As a matter of fact, it's this deeply hidden insecurity that leads him to make such desperate decisions to 'become a better man'. Haruki is the opposite, a pure-hearted, suave, so-cheerful-he-hums type of guy who takes care of everyone like a supportive older brother who just want you to do your best with whatever you're doing. Both Akihiko and Haruki are the oldest in their four-man band, and it shows in how they go about their relationship compared to Mafuyu and Ritsuka.
No matter the couple though, and no matter what clichés do exist, none of the usual stereotypes or misconceptions ever come up. There are no "tops" and "bottoms", no constant sex scenes, no cheating or quarrels about a dumb misunderstanding, because the characters are just people with more going on than that. All-in-all, Given just feels more like a decent contemporary love story that just happens to involve homosexual relationships, rather than a story about The Gays™ made purely to pander to the alphabet Tumblr community.
Definitely not saying that the story doesn't have its clichés, though. It's manga/anime, so of course there will be some clichés, awkward moments, and humor attempts that don't quite land. But when it comes to modern contemporary, Given's LGBT characters are really well done. And when you look at your other choices, not just in LGBT contemporary but in the cursed lands of yaoi manga, it's one of the only ones I've actually enjoyed reading as of late.
But, again, the bar is so fucking low for this kind of shit.
Anyway, the main endgame couple, Ritsuka and Mafuyu, don't even start out really caring much about each other. Matter of fact, it takes a little bit for them to go from basic acquaintances to 'Eh, he's okay', and then once they're more friendly, they stay like that for a good while to build on other things. Ritsuka is a 'no books, only music' type of guy that cares almost too much about people in his life, but then gets frustrated by how much he cares. He can be snarky and a bit stubborn, but never really crosses into immature level, which is so welcomed to me. Then, there's Mafuyu, who almost seems like he has an actual touch of the 'tism. He has such a hard time developing meaningful bonds with other people, doesn't talk much because he doesn't know how to express himself and thus just decides to be silent, he will straight up just run away from a situation if he doesn't know how to respond to it, he's very bluntly honest to everyone with no sense of how others will take it, and has a hard time not taking jokes as literal comments. The two bond together over something as simple as a guitar at first, and from there, everything feels like it develops at a very natural pace. No one's big, dark secret is leaked within the first couple of pages, no real pandering, no weird fetish shit. Just two older teens drawn to music for different reasons and getting closer because of it. Sure, one has more emotional baggage than the other, but that's also handled pretty well, imo.
Even the secondary couple, Haruki and Akihiko, don't fall victim to anything I'd consider bad writing, both having their own complete characterization and relationship focus outside of Ritsuka and Mafuyu's. Akihiko is known to be a womanizer (because bad boy with piercings), well-known to be hot-headed, passionate, competitive, and he comes off far more confident than he really is in both his skills and his life in general. As a matter of fact, it's this deeply hidden insecurity that leads him to make such desperate decisions to 'become a better man'. Haruki is the opposite, a pure-hearted, suave, so-cheerful-he-hums type of guy who takes care of everyone like a supportive older brother who just want you to do your best with whatever you're doing. Both Akihiko and Haruki are the oldest in their four-man band, and it shows in how they go about their relationship compared to Mafuyu and Ritsuka.
No matter the couple though, and no matter what clichés do exist, none of the usual stereotypes or misconceptions ever come up. There are no "tops" and "bottoms", no constant sex scenes, no cheating or quarrels about a dumb misunderstanding, because the characters are just people with more going on than that. All-in-all, Given just feels more like a decent contemporary love story that just happens to involve homosexual relationships, rather than a story about The Gays™ made purely to pander to the alphabet Tumblr community.
Definitely not saying that the story doesn't have its clichés, though. It's manga/anime, so of course there will be some clichés, awkward moments, and humor attempts that don't quite land. But when it comes to modern contemporary, Given's LGBT characters are really well done. And when you look at your other choices, not just in LGBT contemporary but in the cursed lands of yaoi manga, it's one of the only ones I've actually enjoyed reading as of late.
But, again, the bar is so fucking low for this kind of shit.
Other than those examples, I haven't really come across anything that hasn't already been mentioned. Definitely have seen a lot of characters written to just outright pander to the LGBT community lately, but none that are developed enough to actually be called "characters" and not "propaganda caricatures".
Kinda sad it's come to this, really.
*I contained all my sperging and shit into spoilers for convenience.
Hopefully evidence I've been lurking long enough. Finally decided to join the farms today
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2020
11 pages in and no mention of Waylon Smithers?
Possibly one of the best written gay characters in TV history. Well, for the first 6 seasons of The Simpsons, at least. When the writers started making Smithers' sexuality into a plot device in and of itself, he gradually became a caricature (as evidenced in "Homer the Smithers", arguably the weakest episode of the otherwise perfectly cromulent Season 7).
Possibly one of the best written gay characters in TV history. Well, for the first 6 seasons of The Simpsons, at least. When the writers started making Smithers' sexuality into a plot device in and of itself, he gradually became a caricature (as evidenced in "Homer the Smithers", arguably the weakest episode of the otherwise perfectly cromulent Season 7).
HunterHearstHelmsley
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Holding The Man is a really good book about two poofters who grew up just before the aids epidemic in Australia. I think it’s semi-autobiographical. I don’t know if they were well written as gay characters because I’m not gay and I don’t generally associate with gay stuff but the book was really well written.
The main characters were obviously both gay and that was integral to the story but neither were caricatures, they were both fleshed out people. I guess it helps that he just wrote about real people, but the author also had to show enough aspects of their personality and personal relationships to make it seem genuine.
The main characters were obviously both gay and that was integral to the story but neither were caricatures, they were both fleshed out people. I guess it helps that he just wrote about real people, but the author also had to show enough aspects of their personality and personal relationships to make it seem genuine.
DDBCAE CBAADCBE
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- Apr 12, 2019
Mai-Hime has several interesting lesbian and bisexual characters with varied relationships both reciprocated and not.
The two more popular lesbians from the show actually start off as good friends and then through some rather stressful circumstances it's implied that one rapes the other while she's unconscious. When the other finds out about this she is rightfully disgusted and yet her feeling are complicated as she still cares for the other woman. Long story short the rapey one goes all yandere on her and starts killing everyone who ever hurt the other one and it all ends with the two coming to terms and realizing they love each other in a healthier way at the moment they kill one another in a double suicide.
The other example from the show that I can think of off the top of my head also has some mildly rapey implications and involves the other girl instead being completely straight. While there is no actual rape involved here it is revealed that the lesbian was voyeristically watching the straight girl undress, bathe, ect, or at least it's implied. The straight girl takes this in stride however and defends her lesbo friend before being killed by the yandere lesbo from the example above.
The two more popular lesbians from the show actually start off as good friends and then through some rather stressful circumstances it's implied that one rapes the other while she's unconscious. When the other finds out about this she is rightfully disgusted and yet her feeling are complicated as she still cares for the other woman. Long story short the rapey one goes all yandere on her and starts killing everyone who ever hurt the other one and it all ends with the two coming to terms and realizing they love each other in a healthier way at the moment they kill one another in a double suicide.
The other example from the show that I can think of off the top of my head also has some mildly rapey implications and involves the other girl instead being completely straight. While there is no actual rape involved here it is revealed that the lesbian was voyeristically watching the straight girl undress, bathe, ect, or at least it's implied. The straight girl takes this in stride however and defends her lesbo friend before being killed by the yandere lesbo from the example above.
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- Mar 30, 2020
Penguin from the show Gotham was a pretty good character that happened to be gay (Penguin was the only reason why I watched the show).
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- May 23, 2019
Perhaps Thanatos from Hades?
I think he's a case of "has a personality and motives, but his relationship with the MC is important in the story". Or not, if you decide to only keep it platonic. He's a romanceable option in the game where you play as a male character.
I think he's a case of "has a personality and motives, but his relationship with the MC is important in the story". Or not, if you decide to only keep it platonic. He's a romanceable option in the game where you play as a male character.
You don't see Thanatos for a long while into the game, and once you finally meet him, it's obvious that he's displeased with the MC. Even though they don't act friendly at the moment, you can tell they have past history together as they call eachother by nicknames. Thanatos is upset by the MC leaving without telling him goodbye.
He keeps a cool front but obviously cares about the MC, as he repeatedly risks his career and holding in the underworld in order to help him escape. Sometimes in the gameplay, he'll appear and insist on assisting you clear out your enemies. Later in the game his salt decreases, but he tells the MC that he'll give him space and fucks off. On the off chance you see him, if you give him a gift, his responses will slowly go from cold to more receptive/flustered.
His personality is quiet and reserved, he cracks a smile maybe thrice in all of your interactions, which makes the MC think that maybe he's doing something wrong. But he later tells him that his silence doesn't mean that he doesn't enjoy the MC's company, and to not take it in a bad way. Their relationship is essentially built off of coming to understand eachother.
That said, he does look pretty spooky from the front.
He keeps a cool front but obviously cares about the MC, as he repeatedly risks his career and holding in the underworld in order to help him escape. Sometimes in the gameplay, he'll appear and insist on assisting you clear out your enemies. Later in the game his salt decreases, but he tells the MC that he'll give him space and fucks off. On the off chance you see him, if you give him a gift, his responses will slowly go from cold to more receptive/flustered.
His personality is quiet and reserved, he cracks a smile maybe thrice in all of your interactions, which makes the MC think that maybe he's doing something wrong. But he later tells him that his silence doesn't mean that he doesn't enjoy the MC's company, and to not take it in a bad way. Their relationship is essentially built off of coming to understand eachother.
That said, he does look pretty spooky from the front.
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I'm sure Capcom does a J.K Rowling retcon in that because i don't know actually Poison has trans attributes in the 90's and i'm assume they never talked about that until... later 2010? Man, i'm even sure this point is only to create more Futanari characters in Doujins or simply a more lore-appeal to make a difference with Roxy, because... they're literally the same character with color swapped. Anyway, it's a nice pull-off that worked only for the premise of don't touching characters that early.
Anyway... to fill this thread; i'm sure one of the best well written characters is Anthony Prince (A.K.A Gay Tony) from GTA: The Ballad of Gay Tony. Man, despise his homosexual attribute; he helps Luis in many missions in the game, even using guns in gunfights. Damn, that's awesome.
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- May 21, 2018
I am sad no one mentioned Mr. 2 / Bon Clay / Bentham from One Piece, he easily became one of my favorite characters in general. I thought he was just a cringey throwaway character during the Alabasta arc, but I remember still being a youngling and not really getting how important relationships were in One Piece, so I overlooked how well Bentham clicked with Luffy until they met back up later on.
Like holy hell, this guy fights through one of the most brutal floors of Impel Down, a jail known to be inescapable and a death sentence - and almost killing himself in the process - to find a group of prisoners who may just be a rumor, to save the life of one of his best friends. And does it one more time for good measure.
I'd kill to have a pal like Bentham, he's encouraging and upbeat, he cares about his crew like family, and will fucking face death head-on like a badass if it means saving the people he cares about.
I honestly can't even see him as a crossdresser/drag queen anymore, it's more like a passing descriptor you don't put a lot of thought in. I really hope to see him again before the series ends.
OKAMA WAAAAAAY~~~!
Like holy hell, this guy fights through one of the most brutal floors of Impel Down, a jail known to be inescapable and a death sentence - and almost killing himself in the process - to find a group of prisoners who may just be a rumor, to save the life of one of his best friends. And does it one more time for good measure.
I'd kill to have a pal like Bentham, he's encouraging and upbeat, he cares about his crew like family, and will fucking face death head-on like a badass if it means saving the people he cares about.
I honestly can't even see him as a crossdresser/drag queen anymore, it's more like a passing descriptor you don't put a lot of thought in. I really hope to see him again before the series ends.
OKAMA WAAAAAAY~~~!
Governor Jeb Bush
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Arcade and Veronica from Fallout: New Vegas are both great examples.
I know the latter doesn't seem liked with some people here, and frankly considering how much of a nut her VA is in real life, I can't say I blame them, but I really do like how quirky she was and how she attempted to convince and save the BoS, her family, from dying out due to secluding themselves for so long. The ending of her side quest hit me in the gut.
Both characters also don't make being gay as a part of their identity, they only really tell you if you bring up certain subjects and don't make a big deal out of it.
I know the latter doesn't seem liked with some people here, and frankly considering how much of a nut her VA is in real life, I can't say I blame them, but I really do like how quirky she was and how she attempted to convince and save the BoS, her family, from dying out due to secluding themselves for so long. The ending of her side quest hit me in the gut.
Both characters also don't make being gay as a part of their identity, they only really tell you if you bring up certain subjects and don't make a big deal out of it.
starborn427614
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Was Homer's assistant Karl supposed to be gay? If so, I always thought he was a good character.
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- Nov 3, 2020
why is no one is talking about him ??
He is one of best characters in LCDP.
(character is Helsinki (Mirko Dragic) from La Casa El Papel/Money Heist (that Spanish series about robbery)
He is probably pan
(character is Oh Chanwoo from BJ Alex)
+ @Judgment Boy Given is always top tier on BL genre
He is one of best characters in LCDP.
(character is Helsinki (Mirko Dragic) from La Casa El Papel/Money Heist (that Spanish series about robbery)
He is probably pan(character is Oh Chanwoo from BJ Alex)
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- Sep 27, 2019
I always assumed he was. He’s heavily implied to be gay, his voice actor Harvey Fierstein is gay and thought so as well according to the commentary on the dvd. This is one of my favorite early Simpsons episodes as well and I would have liked to have seen more of Karl
verygayFrogs
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Just remembered Bnha
Magne is trans and totally happy with herself but sadly dies. And Toga is just a batshit bisexual with a list for blood
Magne is trans and totally happy with herself but sadly dies. And Toga is just a batshit bisexual with a list for blood
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- Jun 17, 2018
Magne is one of the VERY FEW realistic depictions of a trans woman, especially in a medium where half the male characters could conceivably pass as women if you stuck them in a dress. She’s depicted as excessively mannish with a 5 o’clock shadow and doesn’t pass at ALL, which is a far cry from your typical anime trap where said trap-ness is pretty much an informed attribute.
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- Apr 1, 2017
Hammer's Slammers had Joachim Steuben.
A well written gay character who's arguably more lethal than the tanks. Yes, he's portrayed as a deviant, because, holy fuck, the dude is.
Being gay is about the most human thing about him because there sure as shit isn't anything else human about him.
A well written gay character who's arguably more lethal than the tanks. Yes, he's portrayed as a deviant, because, holy fuck, the dude is.
Being gay is about the most human thing about him because there sure as shit isn't anything else human about him.
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- Feb 21, 2019
I've never heard of this series (I do know of David Drake, though) but it sounds like extremely my kind of shit. Going to check it out.