Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

^THIS. OH SO MUCH. This was a problem even back in the so-called "glory days".
View attachment 3261964
Remember this original, perfectly paced, exquisitely animated movie musical? Of course you fucking don't, because Turner Feature Animation, the animation studio behind it, was bought by Warner Bros. right before it came out. Warner's Feature Animation division was also working on an animated movie around the same time:
View attachment 3261977
A rip-off of the Disney Renaissance formula (a formula that was losing steam for Disney around this time, mind you) that was a steaming pile of dragon shit.

Which one do you think Warner Bros. prioritized more? The original, perfectly paced, exquisitely animated movie musical that was an acquisition? Or the Disney rip-off that, while a little bit more expensive, was made "in-house"? If you picked the latter. congrats on having a functional occipital cortex. Best part? BOTH bombed (one more spectacularly than the other, of course). Funnier part? The former has since gone on to be a cult classic, revered by any serious animation fan, while the latter has since gone into the dustbin of history, forever remembered as the shameless Disney cash-in it was.

Seriously, Cats Don't Dance is SO fucking good. If you haven't seen it yet, plunder it from the high seas if you must, but please do so.
I downloaded it and watched it so much I got sick of it eventually, which isn't exactly a bad thing because it was; and still is, that good. Cats Don't Dance is one of those one hit wonders that's so perfectly paced that it never misses a beat in the plot. Perfect for kids and with a lesson that isn't so hamfisted like in today's climate.
 
I downloaded it and watched it so much I got sick of it eventually, which isn't exactly a bad thing because it was; and still is, that good. Cats Don't Dance is one of those one hit wonders that's so perfectly paced that it never misses a beat in the plot. Perfect for kids and with a lesson that isn't so hamfisted like in today's climate.
Same guy who directed it would go on to direct The Emperor's New Groove, and I believe it's no coincidence that that particular movie is the funniest and one of the most quotable of the entire Disney canon.

(TBF, he also directed Chicken Little, but hey. Everybody makes mistakes.)
 
I think we’re well on the road to the end of the current era of American dominance of global media, and as domestic production continues to falter more and more people will start looking to foreign media (both new and old) as a replacement. Anime and manga have obviously made the biggest inroads so far (likely because the current boom is actually a resurgence of something that already was very popular not too long in the past) but Squid Game and Parasite (along with the relatively low-key but growing popularity of K-dramas) have brought Korean media into the mainstream, and I think it’s only a matter of time before Bollywood starts getting noticed more as well.
I don't think we're headed for the end of American cultural hegemony anytime soon. Not so long as the forces that keep it that way are still around. But I think we're going to have to learn to share with foreign stuff.

^THIS. OH SO MUCH. This was a problem even back in the so-called "glory days".
View attachment 3261964
Remember this original, perfectly paced, exquisitely animated movie musical? Of course you fucking don't, because Turner Feature Animation, the animation studio behind it, was bought by Warner Bros. right before it came out. Warner's Feature Animation division was also working on an animated movie around the same time:
View attachment 3261977
A rip-off of the Disney Renaissance formula (a formula that was losing steam for Disney around this time, mind you) that was a steaming pile of dragon shit.

Which one do you think Warner Bros. prioritized more? The original, perfectly paced, exquisitely animated movie musical that was an acquisition? Or the Disney rip-off that, while a little bit more expensive, was made "in-house"? If you picked the latter. congrats on having a functional occipital cortex. Best part? BOTH bombed (one more spectacularly than the other, of course). Funnier part? The former has since gone on to be a cult classic, revered by any serious animation fan, while the latter has since gone into the dustbin of history, forever remembered as the shameless Disney cash-in it was.

Seriously, Cats Don't Dance is SO fucking good. If you haven't seen it yet, plunder it from the high seas if you must, but please do so.
I have heard stories that the production of Quest for Camelot was extremely troubled. It wasn't written as a musical, and at points in the film it's very obvious. A lot of people who worked on it had their names left off the credits...

I have no idea if anyone's done an oral history of the film but someone really, really should. It would be engrossing to read.
 
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Wanted to expand on my explaination from the previous page.
People have already given good answers to this, so I will not repeat, but I would like to throw in my idea. I think the commodification of media is probably one of the most disastrous things modern media has. When you look back at a famous work, let’s say Star Wars, the influences that built it are pretty obscure and diverse. Samurai films and westerns, amongst other things, were the backbone to this space franchise. Star Wars wasn’t really original in story-telling, but it was original in how it mixed in elements to form something new. Going into animation, many of its best pieces are the same. I remember Pan speaking about Samurai Jack, and how it’s inspirations were wild, from 300 to 80s football films. While the series had more mainstream inspirations like Star Wars and anime, it mixed in a good chunk of obscure. The problem now is that years later, generations that grew up on just Star Wars, anime, etc. are making productions. Now the inspirations are the same source, which is how you end up with Cal-arts boiling down into a competition for who can recreate Sailor Moon magical girls shows the best.

There is something to be said that as nerd culture becomes less obscure, media the sources that created that culture get less varied as people are just taking from the same pool of capeshit, Star Wars, and anime. Thus making less creative products.
Reading a bit more, while I definitely understand the corporate control and nepotism being an issue, I am still in the camp that there just seems to be a lack of real creativity in general. An example that came to my mind was the Ren & Stimpy debacle. From what I recall, due to John K’s actions, Twitter had a field day when it was announced that his show would be revived. During this a hashtag was created for people to post their series pitches that could provide new ideas and content rather than reviving old, and a common theme was that they were all the same premise. It was always some mundane life, magical girl, show a la Steven Universe or Star. Same base, 500 different pitches, no studio mandate behind any. I remember that hashtag proving to people exactly why animation is so focused on reboots, because all the new ideas are the same garbage with new spray paint. Animation sucks as every new IP is currently just some millennial’s attempt to remake DBZ/Sailor Moon/Harry Potter, with little differentiation other than this will have the blacks, or the gays.

Taking from popular sources is fine, but you need to add more to spice it up. Nowadays, most of these shows feel like creator fanfics for a property, rather than a reinvention. Given that many were Tumblr fanfic writers, that really shouldn’t be a surprise, but it is an issue that transcends the industry having mandates. Even without studio pressures, I think the general shared fandom between a generation and lack of innovating from creators would have placed us in the same spot.
 
It's easy to notice because in the part with "The Prayer," a slow ballad, they have it underscoring an action sequence - and so the damn thing winds up dissonant...

There are other stories. Eric Idle and Don Rickles did a lot of ad-libbing and none of it ended up in the movie. Christopher Reeve was originally cast as King Arthur - but this was after his accident, and they quickly realized he wasn't going to deliver the best performance in his condition...
 
^THIS. OH SO MUCH. This was a problem even back in the so-called "glory days".
View attachment 3261964
Remember this original, perfectly paced, exquisitely animated movie musical? Of course you fucking don't, because Turner Feature Animation, the animation studio behind it, was bought by Warner Bros. right before it came out. Warner's Feature Animation division was also working on an animated movie around the same time:
View attachment 3261977
A rip-off of the Disney Renaissance formula (a formula that was losing steam for Disney around this time, mind you) that was a steaming pile of dragon shit.

Which one do you think Warner Bros. prioritized more? The original, perfectly paced, exquisitely animated movie musical that was an acquisition? Or the Disney rip-off that, while a little bit more expensive, was made "in-house"? If you picked the latter. congrats on having a functional occipital cortex. Best part? BOTH bombed (one more spectacularly than the other, of course). Funnier part? The former has since gone on to be a cult classic, revered by any serious animation fan, while the latter has since gone into the dustbin of history, forever remembered as the shameless Disney cash-in it was.

Seriously, Cats Don't Dance is SO fucking good. If you haven't seen it yet, plunder it from the high seas if you must, but please do so.
I think Quest for Camelot predated Dreamworks' early 3D movie formula more than copying Disney's formula at the time (Kayley would've been royalty if that was the case). Celebrities everywhere, excessive musical numbers, decent enough animation and a story which is only good on paper.

Obviously Dreamworks started to tone down that stupid shit to focus on art and story and came into their own. While WB Animation still goes back and forth with what wins and loses like a rocking chair.

Same guy who directed it would go on to direct The Emperor's New Groove, and I believe it's no coincidence that that particular movie is the funniest and one of the most quotable of the entire Disney canon.

(TBF, he also directed Chicken Little, but hey. Everybody makes mistakes.)
So funny and quotable they copied the movie's formula for every episode of "The Emperor's New School" cartoon. It was like the movie's version of madlibs was every episode's script (at least Eartha Kitt won an award for doing it). Luckily it didn't dull the source material's quality.

It's easy to notice because in the part with "The Prayer," a slow ballad, they have it underscoring an action sequence - and so the damn thing winds up dissonant...

There are other stories. Eric Idle and Don Rickles did a lot of ad-libbing and none of it ended up in the movie. Christopher Reeve was originally cast as King Arthur - but this was after his accident, and they quickly realized he wasn't going to deliver the best performance in his condition...
According it its imdb, it came out on the director's birthday. Hope the cake was at least good that day, bud. 🚬

I wouldn't be surprised if the soundtrack outsold the movie. The songs and the covers that weren't in the movie (my favorite being steve perry of journey's cover) were very good. Except the dragons' song. That was just.........noise.
 
^THIS. OH SO MUCH. This was a problem even back in the so-called "glory days".
View attachment 3261964
Remember this original, perfectly paced, exquisitely animated movie musical? Of course you fucking don't, because Turner Feature Animation, the animation studio behind it, was bought by Warner Bros. right before it came out. Warner's Feature Animation division was also working on an animated movie around the same time:
View attachment 3261977
A rip-off of the Disney Renaissance formula (a formula that was losing steam for Disney around this time, mind you) that was a steaming pile of dragon shit.

Which one do you think Warner Bros. prioritized more? The original, perfectly paced, exquisitely animated movie musical that was an acquisition? Or the Disney rip-off that, while a little bit more expensive, was made "in-house"? If you picked the latter. congrats on having a functional occipital cortex. Best part? BOTH bombed (one more spectacularly than the other, of course). Funnier part? The former has since gone on to be a cult classic, revered by any serious animation fan, while the latter has since gone into the dustbin of history, forever remembered as the shameless Disney cash-in it was.

Seriously, Cats Don't Dance is SO fucking good. If you haven't seen it yet, plunder it from the high seas if you must, but please do so.

I've seen both movies, Cats Don't Dance is a gem from start to finish and I remember the entire plot despite not seeing it in over a decade, meanwhile I wouldn't be able to cite a single plot point of Quest for Camelot even if my life depended on it. I just remember to have seen it because of that stupid two-headed dragon design, otherwise my brain decided to NOPE it out of memory.
 
Which one do you think Warner Bros. prioritized more? The original, perfectly paced, exquisitely animated movie musical that was an acquisition? Or the Disney rip-off that, while a little bit more expensive, was made "in-house"? If you picked the latter. congrats on having a functional occipital cortex. Best part? BOTH bombed (one more spectacularly than the other, of course). Funnier part? The former has since gone on to be a cult classic, revered by any serious animation fan, while the latter has since gone into the dustbin of history, forever remembered as the shameless Disney cash-in it was.
The only thing I can recall about Quest for Camelot was that it had an inferior version of The Prayer by Celtic Woman. I probably only remember that because the Wii game name Endless Ocean Blue World also had the track where it plays in its original glory.
 
The only thing I can recall about Quest for Camelot was that it had an inferior version of The Prayer by Celtic Woman. I probably only remember that because the Wii game name Endless Ocean Blue World also had the track where it plays in its original glory.
Quest for Camelot is where the song actually came from.
"The Prayer" was originally recorded in two solo versions for the 1998 film Quest for Camelot, in English by Celine Dion and in Italian by Andrea Bocelli.
 
I remember really liking Quest For Camelot as a kid, but 99.9% because of the songs. The weird Gary Oldman villain was neat, if only to listen to him ham it up. I barely remember the rest of the film though.
When my family asks me if I have a girlfriend:
 
I know it’s been almost one (or two?) years, but what does everyone think about the cartoon adaptation of Invincible?

The amount of jokes regarding Omni-Man telling his bruised and bloodied son to think still haunt me to this day.

Seems fine from the bits I have watched. Overused Superman, but evil, plot, but changes it up enough to not be trash. Will probably never hit the heights of tv DC animation for this genre, but that is a pretty steep expectation anyway. I am just glad that it doesn’t seem like overly edgy garbage like many of the trashy DC animated films.
 
I know it’s been almost one (or two?) years, but what does everyone think about the cartoon adaptation of Invincible?

The amount of jokes regarding Omni-Man telling his bruised and bloodied son to think still haunt me to this day.

I've said it before in this thread, but Invincible's and Kirkman's love for the genre was refreshing in an era of deconstructing everything and beating you over the head about how Superman would actually just be an evil demi-god. Ironic considering bootleg Superman is the Season 1 main bad guy. I ended up reading the entire comic run and am excited to get to see those story arcs in motion. They were also smart in animating it because you could never get it believable without an obscene per episode budget and Krikman's already been screwed on that front once with The Walking Dead.
 
"A strong man stands up for himself, a stronger man stands up for others".


Can you believe this sam Elliot quote came from friggin BARNYARD of all places? Yes the movie with the male cow with udders gave us one of the best Sam Elliot quotes ever...I mean yeah it's no "You stay I go...NO following." but it it defeinelty feels almost too good for the movie that gave us "ahhh milk me!"....speaking of which:

 
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