Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[Gorillion others]

 

[McMitch]

We already knew this with the Dark Knight Returns movies.

Fuck you, those were awesome.

The Killing Joke

My mistake, I confused the latter for the former.

 

[Fellen]

They blackwashed Barbara Gordon. Another redhead down.

 

[Kulee Baba]

Fuck you, those were awesome. Also both Timm and Dini are hacks, they had a whole team keeping their autism in check. Dini is only really good at writing the Joker and frankly I'm not even sure about that anymore.

That being said, Caped Crusader is so bad I'm not even sure that Timm was actually involved all that much besides signing off on the designs and collecting his paycheck. I'm not even sure why it's called a Batman show since Batman is barely a character in it let alone the main one. The female cast seems to be getting the bulk of the screen-time.

Paul Dini mocked all fucking dorks like me and it lands so well. It helps that The Brave and the Bold is in the Top 3 of best Batman cartoons. Like that show won me over so quickly.

There is absolutely no way Paul Dini and now I think Bruce Timm as well could look at Caped Crusader and think this shit is quality. Bruce Timm is only credited for a couple “Story By” which suggests you’re right he probably only helped design the characters, pitched some plots and then collected a check.

Just looking back at BTAS they did an episode that argues against Batman, it’s “The Trial” and one of the lead characters is a female lawyer who hates Batman.

This is so much better than any of the political dialogue in Caped Crusader. And this was show made for children, where Caped Crusader is supposed to be for teens and up. Nonsense.

 

[A Grey Cat]

So what we have here is a batman adaptation that's at war with itself and doesn't know what it wants to be?

It wants to retell golden age batman stories but can't because current year has determined anything made before 1993 to be "problematic. " Is this another jellystone situation? Where the few good things you can say about the show come from Paul and Bruce while the glaring issues are the result of dei hires brought on to work on shows like this.

 

[Kulee Baba]

So what we have here is a batman adaptation that's at war with itself and doesn't know what it wants to be?

It wants to retell golden age batman stories but can't because current year has determined anything made before 1993 to be "problematic. " Is this another jellystone situation? Where the few good things you can say about the show come from Paul and Bruce while the glaring issues are the result of dei hires brought on to work on shows like this.

I think there’s many factors at play and it’s not all political. First off we can just see it with our own eyes BTAS animation is so much better. That’s due to economics. BTAS ran on the “Fox Kids” block. So it had an audience of millions of American households and the network made its money off advertisements for McDonalds and toys. They just clearly had higher budgets.

Of course writing is another story. And I don’t think it’s politics because I honestly didn’t feel this was a political screed. This isn’t the first Batman product that says Gotham is corrupt, hell Gotham being corrupt is essential to Batman’s justification for being a vigilante. What I did feel was that the writers felt they needed to be “mature” instead of funny and it simply doesn’t entertain.

Harley playing the Kazoo as The Joker sends off a poor schmuck to his death is hysterical. That dark humor is what made BTAS timeless.

There is nothing like that in Caped Crusader. The only thing I can say positively about this 2024 abortion of a cartoon is that it made me smile remembering HOW GOOD BTAS is.

 

[Miller]

Batman Caped Crusader is your typical JJ Abrams production, it's a monster wearing Batman TAS' skin.

 

[Tom Bombodildo]

I've actually seen Dofus, though I don't remember much. I didn't hate it, otherwise I can't tell you much.

The Dofus movie is fantastic.

The Dofus movie really is amazing. It's shame it was apparently the first of three planned movies but the other two never got made. I don't know that they ever will, though Ankama seems to be working slow but steady. The show was a mixed bag, very monster of the week kind of thing, though it has (back-to-back) the most obvious "writer's barely disguised fetish" episode than an insanely good heartrending three-parter that defines the rest of the series.

 

[The Cunting Death]

The Dofus movie really is amazing. It's shame it was apparently the first of three planned movies but the other two never got made. I don't know that they ever will, though Ankama seems to be working slow but steady. The show was a mixed bag, very monster of the week kind of thing, though it has (back-to-back) the most obvious "writer's barely disguised fetish" episode than an insanely good heartrending three-parter that defines the rest of the series.

It helps they finally stopped using flash, this last season of Wakfu I'm pretty sure is made in Toon Boom now and it doesn't look like tweening shit, which is my one problem with the show.

 

[grump]

Daily reminder that Timm did the Batman and Batgirl sex scene.

I think elevating this so much over all the other shitty decisions they made in the history of the batman mythos is kind of silly. Batgirl is not Dora the explorer. Bruce is not supposed to be perfect. They didn't even really interact afaik until her adulthood. Its sort of like a student/professor relationship which although morally dubious nobody would have batted an eye at as a story conceit a decade or two ago. In the 80s you had college girls lusting after Indiana Jones and nobody lost their minds and remained traumatized over it for years and years, it was just a funny story beat nobody gave a shit about. Heck nobody really cared about the hinting at a Barbara/Bruce relationship that went on in the animated shows before the infamous scene until much later.

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

Are we sure this version of Harley Quinn isn't running on the 'she slept her way to college success' backstory? Because all the scenes of her trying to play therapist are just the most surface level shit. "Bruce Wayne, I think that your parents' death may have traumatized you. And you might have repressed some things, and repressing is bad for you. Now, do you wanna hear my theory that this guy running around dressed as a bat might have some problems with criminals?"

This show so far feels like it has overly fast pacing, like nothing really has time to breathe. Like the Clayface episode is supposed to be this slow, building tension, but we just rush through it, jumping from set piece to set piece. Renee interrogates Karlo, gets the initial story, then in the literal next scene she figures out that he's lying to her and the chase ensues, tehn we gets everyone expositing his backstory. It feels like we just established Harley, Renee and Barbara as a trio only to instantly jump to 'Oh the tragedy of Barbara's best friend becoming a villain trying to seek justice against the greedy and corrupt!'. And no, Harley and Renee having two minutes of romance was not enough to invest me in them not getting to date.

 

[Gorillion others]

HOW GOOD BTAS

Maybe that's what they were going for. Checkmate, farmers!

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

to interrupt the mediocre capeshit sperging for a bit - one of the local theatesr had 2 80s animated fantasy flicks as a double feature - both of which I've seen before -


You'll never guess which one has aged the best....

Spoiler: fantasy movie showdown

The Last Unicorn without a doubt. Stellar story and gorgeous animation. Songs aren't half bad either, even Mia Farrow and Jeff Bridges' tunes. Fire and Ice is good, but more in a kitschy, campy way. Backgrounds are damn beautiful....




and.....*ahem*

awooga....but aside from those, it's just B-grade fantasy boilerplate.

 

[Kulee Baba]

Maybe that's what they were going for. Checkmate, farmers!

Now I wonder how much Matt Reaves was involved in the production of the show. Because I feel like his fingerprints are on this project. I've had my spergouts before about "The Batman" and I still feel the same way. That movie feels like a Monkey's Paw, it more or less is the Batman movie I dreamed of when I was in high school. I wanted a serious gritty Batman movie, I wanted a Batman movie to be like "Oldboy" & David Fincher's "Se7en." And I got that with The Batman but now I'm an old fart and it made me cringe. I think I'm seemingly the only person who feels so strongly about this but "Dropheads" (designer drug Visine) was the dopiest shit.

But back to Caped Crusader it like The Batman had this "mature" pseudo political commentary. So much focus on how Gotham is corrupt, the mafia, the legal system, the supervillians all making life hell for the plebians. I'll say it again I don't have a problem with that theming, many Superhero stories should have social commentary. Spider-Man is filled with social commentary and it's a big reason why Spidey is without a doubt Marvel's greatest superhero. But with The Caped Crusader especially they don't give social commentary by telling a story having us naturally get those messages. Instead the Caped Crusader just exposition dumps. You know what correctly did have social commentary? Batman The Animated Series! There was a whole episode where Batman experiences what it's like to be homeless man who is fallen prey to the scummiest of criminals. And it's admittedly a weak episode but it does carry the message that the homeless are not purely lazy bums. And whether you agree or disagree with it well it's still a damn story.

Here's a basic plot pitch that my dumbass could think up for a show like The Caped Crusader:

1. Court Drama that's inspired by Rashoman - It's the trial of the century in Gotham and the case could go either way. Act 1 we get the Prosecutor's (Harvey Dent) theory for what happened and why the defendant should be convicted. Then Barbara Gordon gives her defense that totally argues the innocence. Finally Batman barges in as a surprise witness (BUT THE BATMAN IS A WANTED CRIMINAL IN THIS SHOW'S LORE - FUCK YOU WHO CARES IT'S A CARTOON) and gives his account. At the end Barbara and Batman talk and Barbara is still adament that even Batman's account isn't perfect. And Batman concedes that like in Rashoman the truth is subjective and it hinges on perspective.

I dunno did I just write something totally retarded like when Chris Stuckmann made his infamous fanscript for Batman v. Superman? Maybe at least I know I'm not some master storyteller. But I definitely believe this would be far more interesting than pretty much all the episodes in Caped Crusader. Caped Crusader just didn't have anything that came across as being strong storytelling. You can fake serious storytelling by having swear words and characters dying but that doesn't make it mature or thoughtful. What's sad is that I know one of the show's writers Ed Brubaker could have done better, Ed Brubaker wrote good comics at least I think he did.

Edit: Just want to point out I have to give credit to Brubaker (and Bruce Timm) because they did make the story for Episode 3, the Catwoman episode. And if you do desire to watch Caped Crusader watch THAT EPISODE first and if you enjoyed it then watch the others who knows maybe I'm just an old miserable bastard. Even then I still liked that portrayal of Catwoman, it does have the Batman TAS Spirit in there of being both dramatic and comical. If it wasn't for the boring Harley Quinn B-Plot I would say it was great television. To me that episode gives a valid reason as to why Batman and Selina Kyle can never be anything more than a fun fling. It's because Catwoman is a self centered petty thief and goes against Batman's selfless nature.

 

[Quijibo69]

to interrupt the mediocre capeshit sperging for a bit - one of the local theatesr had 2 80s animated fantasy flicks as a double feature - both of which I've seen before -
View attachment 6266003
View attachment 6266006
You'll never guess which one has aged the best....

Spoiler: fantasy movie showdown

The Last Unicorn without a doubt. Stellar story and gorgeous animation. Songs aren't half bad either, even Mia Farrow and Jeff Bridges' tunes. Fire and Ice is good, but more in a kitschy, campy way. Backgrounds are damn beautiful....
View attachment 6266025
View attachment 6266027
View attachment 6266033
View attachment 6266034
and.....*ahem*
View attachment 6266041
awooga....but aside from those, it's just B-grade fantasy boilerplate.

The last unicorn sucks because it makes me cry every time I watch it! It's like the movie "When The Wind Blows" when the old people die because of radiation.

 

[Gorillion others]

 

[Kulee Baba]

Man I'm always down on myself... I know I'm a better critic than this asshole.

6:00:
Barbara: You know this kid has been set up to take the fall
Harvey Dent: He should have squealed on his boss
Youtuber Critic: THAT NAUGHT HOW DA LEGAL SYSTEM WORKS!

In America that is definitely how the criminal legal system works. they charge an accomplice with a hard crime and then they offer a lesser sentence if he agrees to a plea deal & cooperates with the feds to take down the person they're actually after. That + RICO is how the feds dismantled the mafia. Does that not happen in the UK? Even then this fucking Britbong should know better after we've had decades of iconic mob movies.

What a dumbshit.

 

[UnsufficentBoobage]

Last Unicorn

I read the book as a teen, decided that unicorns are evil in it, then spent years being bombarded with how-this-movie-is-great in horse girl circles...still can not bring myself to watch it.

 

[Commander X]

I see a mention of JL: Gods and Monsters and I have to comment that I really enjoyed it, as well as the shorts featuring the alternative versions of the League's Big Three.

Timm did not seem to be vibing with the then modern over-the-top crazy Hot Topic stripper version of Harley that was coming to the fore before the Suicide Squad movie, even, and admitted to this being a mean-spirited take on the more extreme depictions of Nutty Skanky Killer Harley.

 

[AbduluCthuluZulu]

to interrupt the mediocre capeshit sperging for a bit - one of the local theatesr had 2 80s animated fantasy flicks as a double feature - both of which I've seen before -
View attachment 6266003
View attachment 6266006
You'll never guess which one has aged the best....

Spoiler: fantasy movie showdown

The Last Unicorn without a doubt. Stellar story and gorgeous animation. Songs aren't half bad either, even Mia Farrow and Jeff Bridges' tunes. Fire and Ice is good, but more in a kitschy, campy way. Backgrounds are damn beautiful....
View attachment 6266025
View attachment 6266027
View attachment 6266033
View attachment 6266034
and.....*ahem*
View attachment 6266041
awooga....but aside from those, it's just B-grade fantasy boilerplate.

Man I love 80s fantasy animations. They were so raw and badass, and this is coming from someone who didn't even grow up during that era.