Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[A Grey Cat]

Moon girl and TGaMM both having jewish best friends and Bar Mitzvah eps.

I was shocked to discover libby was a jew, it is somewhat refreshing to see a character trait like that where it's not something that they wear on their sleeves. (unlike the autistic turnip girl.)

On a separate note I checked out moon girl after I saw Rebel Taxi talk about it and its alright. Best part of it is the art style and the music battle sequences. It kinda reminds me of Class of 3000.

Also had the most awkward way of introducing character's pronouns and just shoves it in your face that yes we got a they/them here.

Yeah no...not only is moon girl a color clashing nightmare to look at, (I thought autists can't handle too many bright colors at once) but when you have a little porch monkey and an ai computer discussing "preferred pronouns" you have lost any chance of me taking you seriously.

I can't speak for the other staff, but Ms Grotke was definitely political.



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True but remember 30 odd years ago even if writers were left leaning they still knew to show some restraint in that regard. Plus it was part of her character. A literal boomer from the 60s now all grown up and having to get a real job but still somewhat clinging to her old beliefs. grotke could also he legit funny at times, unlike if she were written today.

 

[Georgio Cocklord]

Gonna sperg a bit

Most creators today aren't intresting in creating worlds and escapism, they're more intresting in soapboxing. Studios that once gave us wally are now producing things like turning red.

It's interesting to note where that comes from. In the 80s all the stuff we know now as commie crap was subversive and cool, if you see stuff like aargh(artists against rampant government homophobia) and tales from the old testament comics produced by creators of the time. I certainly won't call those nuanced but they were definitely less obnoxiously offensive. The modern creator crisis is a result of that subversive commie counter culture becoming part of the mainstream hegemony with tons of creators trying to make soapboxes and mouthpieces instead of characters. That's one of the differences between mainstream and counter culture creators, mainstream creators try to preach and end up stale while counter culture tries to create escapism but ends up creating something humane and beautiful. So turning red is what you get when you push female shit to become the norm while Wall-E appealed to the human condition. Also left wingers hate heroism so they're incapable of writing characters who are aspirational.

True but remember 30 odd years ago even if writers were left leaning they still knew to show some restraint in that regard.

I want to say that they were biding their time to fully unleash their version of obnoxious preaching. Nobody in creative spaces shows restraint out of self aware nuance or intelligence, they show restraint out of fear of persecution and rejection, which is also why media loves to cast people who hate woke shit as evil. Its also partially a cultural thing cause baizuos are much less nuanced and much more aggressive in preaching. I watched the original cowboy bebop for the first time couple days ago and despite the fact that i think it's woke as fuck and would fit in with arcane in the "good woke shit" category if released today, it is incredibly nuanced in it's depiction of multiculturalism, gay stuff, disability advocacy and other shit. Shinichiro Watanabe certainly seems to love all the progressive nonsense from interviews I've read but he's capable of a much more nuanced depiction of said nonsense in a way it's sympathetic.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

It's been mentioned in this thread how similar Amphibia and Owl house endings were but lately I've been noticing more and more similarities with other shows as well.

Amphibia and The Ghost and Molly McGee both having Thai protags and Thai culture eps. (The former more than the later despite it being and isekai).

Moon girl and TGaMM both having jewish best friends and Bar Mitzvah eps.

I think having easter eggs or jokes between show is cool but this just feels like script recycling.


On a separate note I checked out moon girl after I saw Rebel Taxi talk about it and its alright. Best part of it is the art style and the music battle sequences. It kinda reminds me of Class of 3000.

Also had the most awkward way of introducing character's pronouns and just shoves it in your face that yes we got a they/them here.





I can't speak for the other staff, but Ms Grotke was definitely political.



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Pretty hypocritical considering "white western males" have been one of the few groups to document history, especially nonwhite history that would have been forgotten without them.

In general, one of the worse things in political "children TV shows" is how stupid they are and not willing to do the research yet claim things in total certainty.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

That's one of the differences between mainstream and counter culture creators, mainstream creators try to preach and end up stale while counter culture tries to create escapism but ends up creating something humane and beautiful.

But what gets me is, why does it always have to be mainstream vs counter culture? Where have all the creators who just create because they want to gone? Japan somehow still has them, they've all but vanished from the west.

The message needs to be incidental to the story, not the other way around. Most stories today are tailored toward message first and foremost and try to craft a story around it, and intentionally strangle the story to conform to the message.


Of course there are some exceptions, klaus off the top of my head, but for every klaus there's 50 strange worlds.

So turning red is what you get when you push female shit to become the norm while Wall-E appealed to the human condition.

Its incredibly self defeating that stories created by "boys clubs" reflect the human condition and have universal timeless appeal for men, women and children of all ages while (as per pixar) the first "all female" team ended up creating turning red in an attempt to "correct the record" and show what happens when "sexism is no longer in play and women are free to create".

The whole thing felt like a parody someone would make to mock women creatives instead of something made by them earnestly.

 

[Quiet Guy]

Its incredibly self defeating that stories created by "boys clubs" reflect the human condition and have universal timeless appeal for men, women and children of all ages while (as per pixar) the first "all female" team ended up creating turning red in an attempt to "correct the record" and show what happens when "sexism is no longer in play and women are free to create".

The whole thing felt like a parody someone would make to mock women creatives instead of something made by them earnestly.

"And I'm not sure this allegory was entirely thought through. When women get emotional, they turn into giant, red, irrational beasts, and the one recourse is getting them to calm down. I would get in trouble for making this movie."
-E;R

 

[Georgio Cocklord]

But what gets me is, why does it always have to be mainstream vs counter culture? Where have all the creators who just create because they want to gone? Japan somehow still has them, they've all but vanished from the west.

Japs are a unique case cause both the mainstream and counter culture are competitive and cohesive with each other while the corporations exploit them both. Its a triangular relationship. Creators are no longer interested in creation alone because of the consequences of cultural marxism/the russian psych ops during the cold war (I dont want to get too political, look it up) and the industry no longer investing in risks or the New. Japan, Korea and to a lesser extent Europe still have largely localized industries which dont cater to fucking China, which dont try to create media to push methods of thought and theyre largely dedicated to keeping politics away from art, which is why they still have creators who want to create and are supported to do so. The west also has such kind of people and its much easier now to make and post shit than 10 15 years ago with the likes of substack and shit. But they either lack resources, theyre caught up in political sperging or theyre forced to give it up cause its risky. Klaus was made by industry veterans from 90s disney dreamworks and the like, who are largely jobless in the modern landscape, you cannot expect something like that coming from the toxic money pit that is mainstream western entertainment. Youre also missing the factor that western entertainment does not allow solo creators to do anything as that is undemocratic, fascist, too much power in one hand. So everythings in the hands of committees and more often studio producers. Most of the big budget studio films are producer driven, the director is just a name on the credits, that way they can minimize risk and get money back on their investment. In contrast Mangakas do everything solo, studios have little to no involvement in production.

Its incredibly self defeating that stories created by "boys clubs" reflect the human condition and have universal timeless appeal for men, women and children of all ages while (as per pixar) the first "all female" team ended up creating turning red in an attempt to "correct the record" and show what happens when "sexism is no longer in play and women are free to create".

Again politics cultivates toxicity and narcissism and women are more susceptible to that cause theyre more social and politics oriented. There are good western women creators, or rather were, like Ann Nocenti who did a fantastic run on daredevil or Brenda Chapman who directed Prince of Egypt and was in charge of Brave before Pixar ruined it and took it from her. It was a woman who wrote Frankenstein. Most art needs a degree of selflessness, theyre supposed to be produced through sheer will and effort which most women cannot do cause they want to insert themselves into what they create.

 

[Anonitolia]

Where have all the creators who just create because they want to gone?

super far away from an industry that is currently rejecting anything original in favor of endless reboots and constant incestuous agenda-pushing
they're not even in indies anymore because indie shit (at least in America; I think Europe might be slightly better-off but don't quote me on that) has also been overtaken by the exact same type of people who will throw hissy fits over the "wrong" type of creative expression and refuse to promote or help out indie stuff unless they agree with it

So right now you have a situation where all of the shitty creators in the industry are refusing to let the industry heal because the only new blood they're letting in is the same dogshit that polluted the industry in the first place, and due to that dogshit being the Deus Vult type of morally-pure culture that doesn't give the opponents an ounce of time to breathe/defend their position before deeming them and any of their supporters heretics, very few people who disagree with the dogshit culture actually get promoted.

And so every mainstream animation shares the same mindset, any prominent Indie thing shares the same mindset (which is the same mindset as the mainstream stuff), and any creative expression in animation that doesn't conform to a single worldview is often pushed out and forgotten about.

Seeing as a lot of "just want to create for the sake of it" creators aren't political at all, that leaves a lot of those guys by the wayside since they don't pander to the mob nor have any backing besides it.

 

[Čmarobnjak]

 

[Colon capital V]

Crossposting from the Lost Media thread since I'd figure you lot would like to hear about this:

In an act of sheer fucking luck itself, someone by the name of "Sanders" from Discord had his mom work at Cartoon Network back in the 2000s who just so happened to have the master tapes to JBVO (the Johnny Bravo talk show segments from way back then) and wouldn't you know it, one of the tapes had the elusive Dragon Ball Z talk segment that everyone has been hunting over.

Lost Media fags are eating good this month, and soon it looks like there'll be more JBVO content to be dropped in the near future.

 

[The Nothingness]

The fourteenth season of Archer will be its final season. I haven't followed the show since it finished the coma seasons so I don't know it recent ones were a return to what made the series great.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

The fourteenth season of Archer will be its final season. I haven't followed the show since it finished the coma seasons so I don't know it recent ones were a return to what made the series great.

The post-coma seasons were really good, yet it deserves to end. It ran its course, and probably should’ve ended last season with Walters’ death, yet I can see why they’re trying to do one last season to maybe tie up a few loose ends.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

It's a shame to see it go but I do side with those saying that it's time to wrap Archer up.

On a completely different tangent, and debatably an unconnected one since the relationship to animation is only mild, I recently found out that animator Ian Emes actually served as writer and director for a non-animated film by the name of Knights and Emeralds. As a film produced in 1986 I am kind of curious about it in comparison to current year given the themes and since we lack a general movies/live tv thread I'm curious if anyone here has seen it.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Emerald Knights

Do you mean Knights and Emeralds?

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Do you mean Knights and Emeralds?

I did, shoddy posting on my side.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The post-coma seasons were really good, yet it deserves to end. It ran its course, and probably should’ve ended last season with Walters’ death, yet I can see why they’re trying to do one last season to maybe tie up a few loose ends.

I didn't see the last season yet, biggest issue in later Archer is that it became very samey and it just desperately needs new cast to play of

 

[Oilspill Battery]

The fourteenth season of Archer will be its final season. I haven't followed the show since it finished the coma seasons so I don't know it recent ones were a return to what made the series great.

Archer took a nosedive during and after the coma. Dreamland was ok-ish, but everything after that cratered in quality, I dredged through the coma seasons and 1 post coma season but after that I just gave up and haven't watched it since.

I understand that we can't expect shows to maintain quality forever, but with archer the drop was so sudden and so stark it felt like the entire writing team got replaced overnight.

 

[A Grey Cat]

The post-coma seasons were really good, yet it deserves to end. It ran its course, and probably should’ve ended last season with Walters’ death, yet I can see why they’re trying to do one last season to maybe tie up a few loose ends.

You also gotta take animation development time into account. They must have recorded Jessica Walter's lines before she passed and had to do something with the last season it's been granted. It really is bittersweet seeing archer go. On the the one hand it was one of the few adult western cartoons that wasn't, " fat, dumb, childish dad+attractive but naggy housewife+2.5 kids who can't be normal=comedy gold. On the other hand like those shows it is showing its age and needs to go.

Crossposting from the Lost Media thread since I'd figure you lot would like to hear about this:

Speaking of bittersweet, jbvo may find new life on the internet age and lost media scored a major victory with this one. On the other it was thanks to a discord neckbeard and his mom we have the master tapes not sealed up in the Warner water tower Ala the animaniacs.

 

[TVB]

Rebooting Davey & Goliath would be one of the few reboots these days that might actually be good.

Except for the new Beavis & Butthead reboot. That's the only reboot I like so far.

 

[The Nothingness]

Something that made the rounds during the downtime was this clip of the newest Transformers series. At least it wasn't Peter Cullen voicing Optimus

 

[Anonitolia]

Something that made the rounds during the downtime was this clip of the newest Transformers series. At least it wasn't Peter Cullen voicing Optimus

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is that Optimus? why is his face so fuckin thin?
Incredible how they managed to replicate the Bay movies' uncanniness in animation like this