Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[Trilby]

Do you ever wonder what it would have been like if our anime boom was at the same time as France and Italy and not twenty years later?

Things would have been a lot better on that front, let me tell you.

Yep, you'll get a lot of us older gen folk who simply watched it and moved on, and not be into it as much as our younger lads at this point in time! It's just always been there.

 

[Friendly_AI]

Due to a Corona virus outbreak, an online course Fundamentals of Animation by Aaron Blaise, Disney animator, is now available for free.
Twit by the author

 

[Trilby]

Due to a Corona virus outbreak, an online course Fundamentals of Animation by Aaron Blaise, Disney animator, is now available for free.
Twit by the author

Nice! I think I already bought it a few years ago, but nice to see everyone can enjoy it.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

Due to a Corona virus outbreak, an online course Fundamentals of Animation by Aaron Blaise, Disney animator, is now available for free.
Twit by the author

neat, been meaning to use my screen tablet for more than just watching cartoons and browsing KF more. Now I have an excuse.

 

[Shokew]

Due to a Corona virus outbreak, an online course Fundamentals of Animation by Aaron Blaise, Disney animator, is now available for free.
Twit by the author

You've done the Lord's work today. Now I have something to learn from, if nothing else, at least in terms of how to do this stuff right, honestly. I honestly wish more people getting into or especially in the industry right now would see this - people like a certain mysterious exceptionalist, for example, who want to break into this field proper...

I hope more people really do take advantage of this if they want to make cartoons so badly, especially if it means making them great again, anyway.

 

[IdaRita]

As for Italy and France situation - yes, anime being there since 70s was a factor. In Italy there is even a singer/actress Cristina D'Avena that built her career on singing orginal song for anime openings. They also made a teen telenovela based on anime Kiss Me Licia where she played main character. In late 80s.
I remember reading (sorry for no source) that World Masterpiece Theatre animes were created specificaly as high-quality TV animation with export (especially to Europe) in mind.
I'm not for France or Italy so I'm not sure if I'm correct, but being European animation nerd, I see there is not strong "anime vs cartoons" thing there?
And for shows I mentioned, them being anime-influences is often only partial. Like, Totally Spies or Martin Mystery have very anime art style and there is strong Cat's Eye and City Hunter similarity, but plot etc is episodic and more like classic "western" action cartoons. Code Lyoko has very disntinct, original art style, but in interviews creators stated they wanted to have more overarching/anime plot. Winx Club has magical girl transformations (again, I was reading that was added because of Sailor Moon popularity, in original concept Alfea faires were more like Harry Potter), but other than that it's doing it's own thing - art style is unique, story not really "monster of the day" format. Loulou de Montmartre has art style that has nothing to do in anime, but it's story is a homage to early XX-century girl novels and its animated adaptations. And Candy Candy.
Anime seems like one of many things that were just present and one of many influences.

Poland and Eastern Europe is interesting situation too, because before 90s we had almost no animated shows that were not produced behind Iron Curtain. Western or anime. And then in 90s/2000s everything was new.
That's a part why I don't really understand whole "something is older that 5-10 years, it's so dated" and "old cartoons vs new cartoons" conflicts. I watched 25 years shows as a kid and honestly liked them. I watched hot new shows and liked them too.

 

[TungstenCarbide]

As for Italy and France situation - yes, anime being there since 70s was a factor. In Italy there is even a singer/actress Cristina D'Avena that built her career on singing orginal song for anime openings. They also made a teen telenovela based on anime Kiss Me Licia where she played main character. In late 80s.
I remember reading (sorry for no source) that World Masterpiece Theatre animes were created specificaly as high-quality TV animation with export (especially to Europe) in mind.
I'm not for France or Italy so I'm not sure if I'm correct, but being European animation nerd, I see there is not strong "anime vs cartoons" thing there?
And for shows I mentioned, them being anime-influences is often only partial. Like, Totally Spies or Martin Mystery have very anime art style and there is strong Cat's Eye and City Hunter similarity, but plot etc is episodic and more like classic "western" action cartoons. Code Lyoko has very disntinct, original art style, but in interviews creators stated they wanted to have more overarching/anime plot. Winx Club has magical girl transformations (again, I was reading that was added because of Sailor Moon popularity, in original concept Alfea faires were more like Harry Potter), but other than that it's doing it's own thing - art style is unique, story not really "monster of the day" format. Loulou de Montmartre has art style that has nothing to do in anime, but it's story is a homage to early XX-century girl novels and its animated adaptations. And Candy Candy.
Anime seems like one of many things that were just present and one of many influences.

Poland and Eastern Europe is interesting situation too, because before 90s we had almost no animated shows that were not produced behind Iron Curtain. Western or anime. And then in 90s/2000s everything was new.
That's a part why I don't really understand whole "something is older that 5-10 years, it's so dated" and "old cartoons vs new cartoons" conflicts. I watched 25 years shows as a kid and honestly liked them. I watched hot new shows and liked them too.

Being an Italian kid in the '80s meant watching hours of anime for free. There was a magazine TV show called Junior TV that aired on local TV channels, and it aired 8 hours of animation a day (it was the precursor of modern thematic channels). The 4 hours in the afternoon presented new material, while the 4 hours in the morning were reruns of the episodes aired during the afternoon of the previous day. Junior TV aired a very eclectic collection of anime, from children stuff (Doctor Slump, Doraemon) to science-fiction/adventure (Hokuto no Ken, Star Blazers) and a few sentai (Ultraman, Ultralion, Tiger Seven, I-Zenborg) to horror (Bem the Human Monster), to comedy (Uruseiyatsura). I also remeber that I watched a lot of the most important Tatsunoko anime on that channel (four seasons of the Time Bokan, Uchu no Kishi Tekkaman, Hurricane Polymer, Casshern, Gatchaman, and a little creepy show called Paul no Mirakuru Daisakusen, that was meant to be an adventure show for children, but boy it was disturbing).

All of this to say that Japanese animation has influenced a lot the adults who watched it in the '80s. I have friends who are over 40 who watch these old anime with their children now. And every now and then my mother, who is 70, asks me to find for her this or that show (her last request has been Bannertail) because she used to watch those with us and she became nostalgic about it. The other day my sister wrote me that she and mom watched reruns of Cats Eye all Sunday morning. Only Disney animation had such a deep impact on the imagination of such a great number of children.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Being an Italian kid in the '80s meant watching hours of anime for free. There was a magazine TV show called Junior TV that aired on local TV channels, and it aired 8 hours of animation a day (it was the precursor of modern thematic channels). The 4 hours in the afternoon presented new material, while the 4 hours in the morning were reruns of the episodes aired during the afternoon of the previous day. Junior TV aired a very eclectic collection of anime, from children stuff (Doctor Slump, Doraemon) to science-fiction/adventure (Hokuto no Ken, Star Blazers) and a few sentai (Ultraman, Ultralion, Tiger Seven, I-Zenborg) to horror (Bem the Human Monster), to comedy (Uruseiyatsura). I also remeber that I watched a lot of the most important Tatsunoko anime on that channel (four seasons of the Time Bokan, Uchu no Kishi Tekkaman, Hurricane Polymer, Casshern, Gatchaman, and a little creepy show called Paul no Mirakuru Daisakusen, that was meant to be an adventure show for children, but boy it was disturbing).

All of this to say that Japanese animation has influenced a lot the adults who watched it in the '80s. I have friends who are over 40 who watch these old anime with their children now. And every now and then my mother, who is 70, asks me to find for her this or that show (her last request has been Bannertail) because she used to watch those with us and she became nostalgic about it. The other day my sister wrote me that she and mom watched reruns of Cats Eye all Sunday morning. Only Disney animation had such a deep impact on the imagination of such a great number of children.

We kind of missed out on all that in America, and look where it got us.

 

[Trilby]

Being an Italian kid in the '80s meant watching hours of anime for free. There was a magazine TV show called Junior TV that aired on local TV channels, and it aired 8 hours of animation a day (it was the precursor of modern thematic channels). The 4 hours in the afternoon presented new material, while the 4 hours in the morning were reruns of the episodes aired during the afternoon of the previous day. Junior TV aired a very eclectic collection of anime, from children stuff (Doctor Slump, Doraemon) to science-fiction/adventure (Hokuto no Ken, Star Blazers) and a few sentai (Ultraman, Ultralion, Tiger Seven, I-Zenborg) to horror (Bem the Human Monster), to comedy (Uruseiyatsura). I also remeber that I watched a lot of the most important Tatsunoko anime on that channel (four seasons of the Time Bokan, Uchu no Kishi Tekkaman, Hurricane Polymer, Casshern, Gatchaman, and a little creepy show called Paul no Mirakuru Daisakusen, that was meant to be an adventure show for children, but boy it was disturbing).

All of this to say that Japanese animation has influenced a lot the adults who watched it in the '80s. I have friends who are over 40 who watch these old anime with their children now. And every now and then my mother, who is 70, asks me to find for her this or that show (her last request has been Bannertail) because she used to watch those with us and she became nostalgic about it. The other day my sister wrote me that she and mom watched reruns of Cats Eye all Sunday morning. Only Disney animation had such a deep impact on the imagination of such a great number of children.

I really envy you!

We kind of missed out on all that in America, and look where it got us.

It is very night and day.

 

[AnOminous]

We kind of missed out on all that in America, and look where it got us.

We got Speed Racer, Space Battleship Yamato/Star Blazers, Kimba the White Lion, and a number of others on network TV. The showing later was much weaker and mostly Dragon Ball.

 

[Trilby]

We got Speed Racer, Space Battleship Yamato/Star Blazers, Kimba the White Lion, and a number of others on network TV. The showing later was much weaker and mostly Dragon Ball.

Prior to the start of the century, most of those shows were technically syndicated to local stations, some on cable channels like Nickelodeon, so their exposure was often limited next to network TV (The Big Three plus Fox) that would've been readily available everywhere.

 

[AnOminous]

Prior to the start of the century, most of those shows were technically syndicated to local stations, some on cable channels like Nickelodeon, so their exposure was often limited next to network TV (The Big Three plus Fox) that would've been readily available everywhere.

I watched all the ones I listed on plain old TV available over the antenna (other than DB).

 

[Notgoodwithusernames]

What's interesting - French cartoons had a lot of solid overarching storytelling earlier.
Code Lyoko (later seasons), W.i.t.c.h., Valerian and Laurelin, Galactic Football, Wakfu, Oban Star Racers, Loulou de Montmartre and more in 2000s alone.
Or even Mysterious Cities of Gold and Spartakus and the sun beneath the sea in 80s.
Or Italy and Winx Club, Angel's Friends and Huntik.
It's more "recent years" push for them to focus more on younger/preschool children and episodic format.

I keep hearing how good Wakfu is so I’m putting it on the watchlist.

On another note I watched Mask of the Phantasm again last week. Still up their with Dark Knight as the best Batman movie, Also watched Under the Red Hood Which is also top tier.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

 

[XtrmGamr719]

View attachment 1198813

Weird that the better part of the Cartoon Network channel is Adult Swim, especially with original cartoons.

 

[Shokew]

Weird that the better part of the Cartoon Network channel is Adult Swim, especially with original cartoons.

To be fair, it's thanks to there mostly being (emphasis on mostly, even though the issue is not as bad as CN's, truthfully enough.) Cartoons not actually being weighed down by SJWBS. Something that will hopefully change once the counterculture for this comes a-knockin', which again, ain't gonna be fast enough.

 

[Yamma Damma]

To be fair, it's thanks to there mostly being (emphasis on mostly, even though the issue is not as bad as CN's, truthfully enough.) Cartoons not actually being weighed down by SJWBS. Something that will hopefully change once the counterculture for this comes a-knockin', which again, ain't gonna be fast enough.

Could not agree more.
My money is on the (overdue) rise of steampunk or Genndy giving way to more adult cartoons that have the violence and sex compliment the story rather than overshadow it. (cartoons like Korgoth of Barbaria. shit was brutal and awesome.)

 

[Trilby]

Could not agree more.
My money is on the (overdue) rise of steampunk or Genndy giving way to more adult cartoons that have the violence and sex compliment the story rather than overshadow it. (cartoons like Korgoth of Barbaria. shit was brutal and awesome.)

If only Korgoth got off the ground before it sank.

 

[IdaRita]

As for what I would like see more in cartoons: actual historical settings. And not used for "everything in the past was racist and bad", just fun story set in realistic historical setting, and because of that having educational angle (important happenings affecting the story etc). Maybe my last post, where I mentioned World Masterpiece Theatre made me a bit nostalgic... but I would like to see small revival of this dead genre.
Or animated adaptations of classic books.

In France they recently greenlighted project based on fantasy book series and it looks awesome.

EWILAN'S QUEST

This is "EWILAN'S QUEST" by slimane aniss on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeo.com

French Fantasy Trilogy Ewilan’s Quest Is Being Turned Into an Animated Series

Great news for those who like their portal fiction en français. Pierre Bottero’s Ewilan’s Quest trilogy is being developed as an animated series.

www.tor.com

 

[Private Pyle]

Could not agree more.
My money is on the (overdue) rise of steampunk or Genndy giving way to more adult cartoons that have the violence and sex compliment the story rather than overshadow it. (cartoons like Korgoth of Barbaria. shit was brutal and awesome.)

God what I wouldn’t give to see a steampunk revival. I’d also be happy to see dieselpunk and clockpunk rise in popularity.
It really does seem like adult animation might be going places with Primal and indie stuff like Hazbin Hotel. I just hope it’s not wishful thinking like the the 2010s.

As for what I would like see more in cartoons: actual historical settings. And not used for "everything in the past was racist and bad", just fun story set in realistic historical setting, and because of that having educational angle (important happenings affecting the story etc). Maybe my last post, where I mentioned World Masterpiece Theatre made me a bit nostalgic... but I would like to see small revival of this dead genre.
Or animated adaptations of classic books.

In France they recently greenlighted project based on fantasy book series and it looks awesome.

EWILAN'S QUEST

This is "EWILAN'S QUEST" by slimane aniss on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeo.com

French Fantasy Trilogy Ewilan’s Quest Is Being Turned Into an Animated Series

Great news for those who like their portal fiction en français. Pierre Bottero’s Ewilan’s Quest trilogy is being developed as an animated series.

www.tor.com

Glad to see France is still keeping fantasy alive in animation. This looks neat.
I think a big component in not seeing more period pieces and classic adaptations, in addition to “the past is problematic”, is that it’s simply too much research for a lot of people. But that’s just me giving a crackpot theory.