What are the left?

[Haim Arlosoroff]

Hello Kiwifam,

I was recently in an argument, I get into a lot of those with people. There were three people: myself, a fag-left permanent-democrat voter, and what I can only describe as a counter-globalist centrist who really thought the social differences between the leftist and the right-winger in their day-to-day lives were the sole result of a Divide and Conquer strategy of the world's top Globalist Academics, Politicians, Business, Youth, and Community Organizers. I mildly disagreed with the degenerate and the degenerate-enabler.

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Kiwifarm, while this will become an argument about the divide and conquer methodology in our society, I just want to say that I understand the argument. I get it. I've heard it. The problem is do those who believe that line truly think that homosexuality, transvestites, furries, and other degenerates are a top-down construct of the elites to force division, actually promote this belief in your day-to-day lives? That gays are fake and homosexual, and there is no reality to their sexuality and that its just a choice invented by The Powers That Be? The radical Centrism wouldn't argue that in front of the soy-faced testosterone-disabled 'guy', so the argument shifted to if there are real differences, are they exploited by the political parties of the bankers rather than created? Which we all agreed on that, but that meant that even if the globalists weren't making us fight to change things in their favor through false-binaries we would still be fighting to change things from the social mess we live in today.

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I argued that we are emotionally drawn to either individualism & its promise of an all-acceptance which allows you to become what you want, or collectivism & its promise of higher meaning in submitting to purity, loyalty, and family and being changed by it in order to grow. That we believe in a rationality that we are either going to overcome our limitations and problems to reach out into the cosmos and explore or at least not suffer in poverty anymore, or that such beliefs are the folly of modernity and a false hope leading us away from traditional/functional social ordering. We trust a plan either way, in struggling for or against tradition because we are social creatures bred to act collectively.

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The faggot was a faggot. Claiming we needed to empathize until I pointed out I could relate to his motivations but he didn't even listen to mine never mind understand them. When you hit a leftist successfully with a test of their empathy or lack thereof, I think I've always shut that argument down. I mostly argued with the counter-globalist while the gay gentleman threw barbs at me trying to get me to confess to worse and worse things so that he could get the upper-hand morally. I cucked by answering his accusations with questions of clarification to keep the conversation going. I bought him a drink to keep him happy and subtly prove I would be more supportive of him than ever the reverse. Which was probably what he wanted anyway, parasites that they are.

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But I couldn't help but think that the Infowars drinking buddy (who hated Alex Jones but wasn't aware how much he acted identically to him) was a man who was a leftist even though he wouldn't admit it. He was so concerned with giving the Afghan a fair shot at the American way of life, rather than the notion that a society could stand apart from the world like Israel, China, and Nigeria do. What the fuck is wrong with everyone that they believe that their society is invincible and able to be infinity overstretched or that their society is evil and should be destroyed? I want a third position that hates both sides of this false binary. A people that believe civilization is a rare refinement from the rest of humanity, and that it is deeply meaningful to fight to maintain it.

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But I would settle for at least understanding what leftism really is, who are the prime movers as opposed to those who leech on for their own benefit? Is there such a difference when we're talking about leftists? I hate the fake top-down divide that supports the uniparty in the capital but the Leftists on the ground sicken me almost equally. They are different than me, and any unity we try to make to overcome the uniparty is just hopelessly washed away when you actually interact with the Left. What are they, and why do they persist? They aren't happy, is it stupidity? Have they sold their soul for bottom dollar? I didn't make any enemies, I promise you, but I didn't make any headway into a new alternative consensus against Washington either. I just went silent like a coward, instead of a screaming right-wing lunatic, when I couldn't believe how they argued.

TL;DR America has the cohesion of a hangover shit, and I don't think its because of the elites.

 

[Crunchy Oats]

I'm not reading any of that

 

[Henry Wyatt]

the two party system is retarded for this reason, some people on the "right" are reasonable and some people on the "left" are reasonable, but when you have two teams it becomes too easy to make the other "Side" look retarded when in reality it should be multiple different parties

 

[Blackhole]

child rapists and animal fuckers

 

[MysticLord]

The left are a coalition of low and high vs the middle.

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Low: lumpenproles, wards of the state, the insane, the despondent, junkies, helots, slaves, foreign mercenaries, low ranking foreign colonists, those who depend on the high for status (jannies/journos), sexual deviants, social parasites, the social equivalent of school shooters, social predators, able-bodied/minded welfare leeches, unskilled thieves, unattached women, women attached to low status men, and naive fools.

High: managerialists, kleptocrats, oligarchs, bureaucrats, compradors, middlemen, employers of the low (those who hire illegals), high ranking foreign colonists, priests of the state-mediated status allocation religion, usurers, and those who fear being replaced by the middle.

Middle: kulaks, small business owners, tradies, tech workers that aren't part of the low or high, wild-men, hunters, workers, ethnic groups that are generally high functioning and not neurotic, those who are conscientious, mothers of sons, fathers, men, and generally those who are successful by dint of their own talents and efforts.

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The high always fears the middle because it is always the middle that replaces the high in a revolution or revolt. The low never replaces the high, though they can sometimes move up to middle the high fall far enough.

The high often manipulate procedural outcomes to privilege the low at the expense of the middle, because this keeps the low and middle divided and attacking one another rather than the high. Jury tampering/intimidation is a recent example, as is selective prosecution.

The issue becomes moot when the high becomes totally dependent on the middle to survive, when they paint themselves into a corner by refusing to promote capable people from the low and middle, and refusing to pure especially incompetent members of the high. What you get then is a negative sum game, where the high due to their increasing foolishness and stupidity can survive only by eating other people's slices of the pie.

 

[FlappyBat]

A bunch of rich frenchies sat on the left side of the room and then another bunch of rich frenchies sat on the right side of the room. Then they, mostly the left side of the room frenchies, executed a bunch of other rich frenchies. So all in all, pretty based but still french.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

The woke left push a toxic and anti-human "ideology" through bullshitting ("gaslighting") and manipulation.

They're driven by the idea that "progress" is a one-way single path, hence the "cancelling" of history.

And they think that by censoring what they disagree with as "alt-right extremism", they can force a "utopia".

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

The left has devolved into radical, insane activists thirsting for power and destroying anyone who stands in their way. They're like Europe during the colonization.

 

[Snuckening]

This sub-forum needs the 'autistic' sticker back soooooooooooo fucking badly.

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

This sub-forum needs the 'autistic' sticker back soooooooooooo fucking badly.

What do you mean by that, huh?​

 

[Sperghetti]

And they think that by censoring what they disagree with as "alt-right extremism", they can force a "utopia".

On that subject, I'm beginning to think the left is primarily people who believe we can have a utopia if only we meet impossible goals X, Y, and Z, while many who claim the right believe we had a utopia at one time and squandered it.

 

[Yuri_]

The left have become entropy. All must be broken down into chaos, and we must oppose anyone who would try to bring about order.

 

[Fomo Hoire]

This sub-forum needs the 'autistic' sticker back soooooooooooo fucking badly.

This is the Autistic Thunderdome. The whole subforum is the sticker.

 

[MysticLord]

On that subject, I'm beginning to think the left is primarily people who believe we can have a utopia if only we meet impossible goals X, Y, and Z, while many who claim the right believe we had a utopia at one time and squandered it.

The point of x, y, and z isn't what their explicit goals are claimed to be. Instead they are usually entitlements or jobs programs for members of the email job class.

Or instance, hiring 90,000 IRS emailers won't acutally produce more tax revenue than they will cost in wages, salary, and benefits. The point isn't to increase tax revenue, it's to give graduates of "elite" universities and certain otherwise unemployable interest groups do-nothing jobs.

 

[Honest Fan Soni-chan]

Leftism is at its root Frankism for gentiles. There's a lot more to be said but that's the basis.

 

[Daddy's Little Kitten]

Why are the left?

 

[PlumSyrup]

I honestly have no real idea. I used to consider myself somewhat left of center but the more I see what the left actually cares about, the more I think I'm not.

To me, social issues really aren't a part of politics and shouldn't be at all, for either side. If someone says "Yeah, I'm right wing, I value traditional families" in my opinion that is a non sequitur. Similarly, when someone says "I'm a leftist, therefore trans women are real women" well that also doesn't tell me about politics. City governments and state governments and federal governments aren't there to affirm you for how few or many kids you have, it's about economic systems and infrastructure and law.

So, take the Dave Chappelle special for instance. I thought it was pretty funny. I can understand why some people didn't find it funny and found it offensive. What I don't understand is why this is POLITICS.

I'm increasingly becoming convinced that the left just exists to disagree with the right. It's 99% shit that doesn't really matter. You can elect me mayor and I can spend every day standing in the middle of town yelling TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN and BLACK LIVES MATTER and that will accomplish fuck all for anyone, including trans women and black people, but I'm sure the left will be extremely pleased with me

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

What I don't understand is why this is POLITICS.

There are some people in this world that have things deeply wrong with them, not in an unfixable way but in a humiliating-to-admit way. So they make the decision that the whole world must change instead. That is why the Dave Chappelle special is political for some people.

I might not know why some people get that bad, if there really is a bio-leninism or if society is sick and is producing these people but I know that faction of the electorate exist. I just wish "the left" wouldn't let them blend so thoroughly in their numbers, or if I'm wrong and the left have always been those people trying to grow their support bases by deluding good people with promises of social change? Black Lives Matter leaders live in mansions they couldn't have owned before their activism, and they are not alone. Which is the real left, the cheats or the altruistic?

Why are the left?

Exactly. Are they the downtrodden, the con artists, or one half of a political game designed to divide us? Those are mutually exclusive things. So why do they exist? Which of these things is their true core reason to persist in their psychopathic need to receive empathy whilst giving none?

 

[Lemmingwise]

I'm increasingly becoming convinced that the left just exists to disagree with the right.

If you go on the attack, you might put the other team on the defensive and as a result, get away with all your other shit.

Case in point; using fake pandemics or fake environment lies to scare people. But it really isn't that different than using fake muslim terrorist groups.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

Its a meaningless term, at this point.

The term "the left" emerged largely during the French revolution to describe political positions within the assembly, and those who were in favor of more republican measures taken by the government.

Is republicanism leftism? I mean, maybe, depending on whom you ask, but we are so far removed from that political reality that it frankly should bear little relevance to today's standards. For example, republicanism barely touched economics during the French revolution, but did touch things such atheism, governmental reform to cut down on things such as nepotism and corruption, equality (which was mostly just legal equality at its max extent under the law), a separation of Church and State, "liberty" (basic political rights), and fraternity (which ironically, seems much more fascist now), and even some tinges of nationalism. You can see how each has evolved to this day in some sense.

A better question could be, what is a socialist?

On that, the question traditionally emerged from the labor question of the mid 19th century (what will we do with the proletariat), and a socialist was someone who wanted to answer that question in a way that tended to favor the proletariat. That involves a wide variety of ideologies, and not just Marxism.

I think at some point, leftism took on some of the old labor baggage of socialism once economics became a major concern of political parties,

But what the left should be viewed as is a group of people who, when presented with modern day problems, either want to help all segments of society including the proles, or tend to focus on the proles the most.

Are modern day "leftists" really that left wing? I guess that they imagine themselves to be, that defunding the police, communism, or whatever the fuck college students are on would help the working class, the poor, etc- but honestly, they've just been gaslit into an ideology that actually harms the poor. The modern left is meaningless as a political faction, because so much of what they advocate for has nothing to do with the poor, actively harms them, or is simply some kind of racial grift now. Its values are preaching about helping the poor, but its about as successful in doing that as vegan who buys cruelty free honey, farmed by indentured slave children in northern Guatamala.