What definition of freedom would you like elected officials to implement? - It seems so simple, freedom is freedom

[Haim Arlosoroff]

In my continuing watching of Adam Curtis's documentary The Trap, which has nothing to do with a fictional character in an anime who dresses up in the opposite gender's clothing to trick people into thinking that they're the opposite gender (I'm sorry), I came across a point [@12:38] where they stated Bill Clinton introduced a dystopian scheme into America where Freedom is redefined as nothing more than the ability for individuals to get whatever they want and the government spending he was hoping to use to fix America with would destroy the economy. Luckily Alan Greenspan and the CEO of Goldman-Sachs had a counter proposal; Instead of seeing the markets as a force greed uses to enrich it, the market would respond democratically to people's needs instead of government.

As the argument only works if freedom is a material desire rather than any ideal for breaking free from controlling influences and the commodification of everything sacred, I wonder what America's or the World's idea of freedom really is?

 

[The Real SVP]

I would like the people who claim to be elected officials to respect my right to kill them in a fair fight. No hiding behind badly paid mercenaries.

 

[Red Hood]

Freedom is a special lane on the Highway where I pay a certain amount and I can make my bike go as fast as I goddamn want.

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

I would like the people who claim to be elected officials to respect my right to kill them in a fair fight. No hiding behind badly paid mercenaries.

I think that is "Freedom is my morality asserted over all others within the territory of my citizenry" but I respect your right to duel every last government employee until America is free at last. Especially if it is by rapier instead of pistols. Although sniper duel started by phone call could be interesting..

 

[TFT-A9]

Freedom is the ability to die from too many liberties rather than too few liberties in society

Best answer. I like it. I also like freedom by this definition.

 

[AMERICA]

Freedom from the government thinking they know how to run my life better than I do. Fuck off.

Also freedom from taxes that go to other countries/dumb bullshit that only helps the elites. I only care about helping my own country/community. I know this one isn't realistic, but it is a type of freedom that I desire.

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

I see a lot of posts for "Freedom is my morality asserted over all others within the territory of my citizenry" but not a lot of votes for it. I respect that, that is an honest dedication for that answer.

 

[The Real SVP]

I think that is "Freedom is my morality asserted over all others within the territory of my citizenry"

I have no citizen (Nor am I one.) and don't lord over no domain. I just don't like people claiming domain over my head without me agreeing to it.The old laws, and established customs, say that I can fight anybody who tries to take what I have and don't want to give.

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

I have no citizen (Nor am I one.) and don't lord over no domain. I just don't like people claiming domain over my head without me agreeing to it.The old laws, and established customs, say that I can fight anybody who tries to take what I have and don't want to give.

Whose old laws? Whose established customs? We all unfortunately belong to culture with a citizenry in them, unless they are dead cultures like the Olmec. Citizenry are just the citizens of a place regarded collectively, no?

 

[Not Vordrak]

Free the nipple

 

[The Real SVP]

Whose old laws? Whose established customs? We all unfortunately belong to culture with a citizenry in them, unless they are dead cultures like the Olmec. Citizenry are just the citizens of a place regarded collectively, no?

Dude, the world is a lot bigger than your, distorted, idea of North America. Never mind that the old law does apply there as long as we are there.

 

[Freshly Baked Socks]

Help. I want cocaine and whores but I feel uninformed. Should I press the "freedom is nothing" or the "freedom is the ability" button?

 

[Chilson]

I would elect an official who cutback the governments involvement (and funding) to the absolute minimum. After all, individual freedom will always limited by the inclusion of society. Rather than have the government force societal needs down my throat through obscene government programs and funding in areas of my life that I would rather be left to my own devices (and not taxed for), I would like to make the choice of which parts of society I am willing to sacrifice my freedoms for.

I would sacrifice a lot too for the creature comforts of society. But at least it would be my choice to make that sacrifice, which is in itself freedom.

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

Help. I want cocaine and whores but I feel uninformed. Should I press the "freedom is nothing" or the "freedom is the ability" button?

If you want government to give you cocaine and whores then "Freedom is nothing more than individuals getting whatever they want"
If you want government to leave you alone with your cocaine and whores then "Freedom is the ability to die from too many liberties rather than too few liberties in society"

The first is close-ended, and the government incentives you to jump through hoops running the NHS or stonks but supplies or discounts said whores and cocaine
The second is open-minded, but the government provides no incentives yet no punishments for acquiring the whores and the cocaine so long as you earn them by your blood, sweat, and tears.

Its explained in the documentary @17:41. Although it is a long documentary on psychology and government programs.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

To me freedom is best measured by the presence of choice. The more power you have to choose the course of your destiny, the more free you ultimately are. There are ways that society can bolster this freedom, and there are ways that society can suppress it, and I think it's ultimately up to us to ensure that it does the former and not the latter.

I don't subscribe to the libertarian view of freedom, as I think it's incomplete. I'm in complete agreement with libertarians when it comes to their opposition to the ways that society can suppress our freedom (like government restrictions on freedom of speech, or the drug war, for example), but I think they're completely wrongheaded in their opposition to the ways that society can genuinely empower people, such as providing citizens with things like public education, healthcare, and a right to a social safety net. Without these things, I argue that people would be less free, not more, as they would have less power over the circumstances of their life.

 

[Freshly Baked Socks]

I think they're completely wrongheaded in their opposition to the ways that society can genuinely empower people, such as providing citizens with things like public education, healthcare, and a right to a social safety net. Without these things, I argue that people would be less free, not more, as they would have less power over the circumstances of their life.

I fail to see how taking money from one person and giving it to another increases the overall freedom. It sounds more like a ponzi scheme. Sure, the person receiving free services&funds feels a greater sense of "freedom" because they can get things for nothing (ps, freedom does not equal free gibs) - but the person being robbed certainly knows the score about their own lack of freedom.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

I fail to see how taking money from one person and giving it to another increases the overall freedom. It sounds more like a ponzi scheme. Sure, the person receiving free services&funds feels a greater sense of "freedom" because they can get things for nothing - but the person being robbed certainly knows the score about their own lack of freedom.

It increases overall freedom by maximizing the choices available to people, on aggregate.

Someone who can afford to pay a bit of tax is probably not going to have their life unduly burdened by a reasonable degree of taxation, while a person who is destitute is almost certainly going to be burdened by their destitution. Stepping in to to provide opportunity to those at the bottom of the social ladder doesn't just make them more free, it also helps to create opportunity for those further up, as having an educated, upwardly mobile population is going to mean having a more dynamic workforce and economy.

This is before we even get to the subject of minimizing negative externalities, as poverty and destitution tend to correlate strongly with crime and social disorder; both of which tend to trap people in a vicious cycle. Not having to pay tax isn't going to make you more free if the consequence is having to barricade yourself in your home because the society around you has broken down.

 

[DeadFish]

Freedom is imposing my will on others and getting away with it

 

[Freshly Baked Socks]

if the consequence is having to barricade yourself in your home because the society around you has broken down.

Lets be honest. Society has broken down around me and I am barricaded in my own home. Robbing me further will not reverse the course.

 

[Arm Pit Cream]

I want diplomatic immunity