What exactly is an "bad faith" argument? - Social Justice is confusing, nowadays.

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No, read my first post for an example of when it is used correctly in an informal setting.
No, it doesn't. Your first post makes the high-handed assumption that only you know what the true point of an argument is. Also, you didn't bring up formal debate at all until you sought to use it to legitimize your assumption after the fact.

If you're trying to illustrate a bad faith argument by example, swell job.
 
No, it doesn't. Your first post makes the high-handed assumption that only you know what the true point of an argument is. Also, you didn't bring up formal debate at all until you sought to use it to legitimize your assumption after the fact.

If you're trying to illustrate a bad faith argument by example, swell job.

If I made the distinction of "private" in the latter position I assumed that it would be obvious that the former position applied to "public" and by extension "formal" debate. This is clarified in my second post directly. It is not a "high-handed assumption that only I know what the true point of an argument is", it is only the assumption that there was already an understood distinction between "formal, public" debate and "informal, private" debate.
 
If I made the distinction of "private" in the latter position I assumed that it would be obvious that the former position applied to "public" and by extension "formal" debate. This is clarified in my second post directly. It is not a "high-handed assumption that only I know what the true point of an argument is", it is only the assumption that there was already an understood distinction between "formal, public" debate and "informal, private" debate.
Public doesn't imply formal, private doesn't imply informal, and your argument makes no sense in any case.
 
Public doesn't imply formal, private doesn't imply informal, and your argument makes no sense in any case.
A public debate is most often a formal debate, with agreed upon rule and agreed upon terms. This is the form of debate engaged in by lawyers and politicians. The goal of a public debate is to convince the audience and not your opponent. A public debate that is informal is a shitshow thats only use is entertainment a la Killstream.

A private debate is most often informal, where the rules and terms have to be explored and discussed in the discussion itself. This is often found among friends, acquiantences, or friendly-strangers with the goal of convincing the opponent of your position. A private debate that is formal is only practice for more public debate, like how practicing timed chess makes you better at timed chess.

This is a very basic concept and if you struggle to understand this you shouldn't engage in politics at all.
 
A public debate is most often a formal debate, with agreed upon rule and agreed upon terms. This is the form of debate engaged in by lawyers and politicians.
Lol, no. This isn't the age of Lincoln and Douglas. Aside from a few contexts, most political debates are not all that formal, and in many cases there's no agreed, single purpose for the discussion, which was the main thing you were falsely claiming. It is a common tactic in political debates to change the terms of the discussion to ones which better favor the arguer.

You are an arrogant, vapid idiot, and I'm done with you. Vent your empty skull at another person.
 
Lol, no. This isn't the age of Lincoln and Douglas. Aside from a few contexts, most political debates are not all that formal, and in many cases there's no agreed, single purpose for the discussion, which was the main thing you were falsely claiming. It is a common tactic in political debates to change the terms of the discussion to ones which better favor the arguer.

You are an arrogant, vapid idiot, and I'm done with you. Vent your empty skull at another person.
Formal doesn't mean refined or polite. It means it has form. Modern politicians still have rules to obey, and they are always given a topic to debate or argue. They cannot just as easily change specific terms. Informal debates meet none of these criteria. You are retarded beyond belief.
 
Accusing somebody of acting in bad faith is ad hominem that adds nothing.

Kinda why sjws have also embraced "whataboutism". Whataboutism was coined by American conservatives as a way to ignore Soviet criticisms. The Soviets would commit a crime -> Americans would point it out -> The soviets would point out colonialism and racism.
They basically embraced oldschool neocon talking points to ignore people they disagree with.
 
Here is an article that gives the rundown on what constitutes "bad faith arguments". It has morphed a little from its original meaning, I think.

Medium.com: A Field Guide to Bad Faith Arguments
As much as Peterson is a loon, that article is a joke in the way they represent him suing for "calling him a misogynist".

I would say that educators pressuring university teacher aides to never show any Peterson video without sufficient hate was equivalent to showing a video of the nazi's without condemnation is not exactly the same as just "calling someone a misogynist".

In fact, I'd consider such a willful and intentional misrepresentation of facts a good example of someone politically engaging in bad faith.

As much as bad faith can be a legitimate criticism, I've mostly run into it being used by commies or commielites who consider you not being nice enough to their attempts to kick your teeth in; physically or rhetorically.

Freeze peach is an excuse to attack free speech. If you throw enough dirt on your opposition, it makes it hard for them to rally people to their flag even behind noble causes.
 
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Do you think that concern trolling as an argument is in bad faith?
These garbage people do not because they consider themselves absolutely morally correct so they can never concern troll

but if you oppose them and concern troll then you are absolutely arguing in bad faith
 
Anyone using it on reddit isn't using it correctly. Posting on T_D and then wandering on to a left-leaning sub to argue a point isn't arguing in bad faith, especially if they're open about their affiliation and you can go to their account and clearly see their biases. Personally, I wouldn't accuse anyone of arguing in bad faith unless there was concrete proof of it. Assuming intentions is one of the worst things you can do when arguing. Address the points and argue fairly.

For non garbage persons:

Argument in bad faith means you are not: Arguing to convince OR trying to find common ground OR arguing something you really and truly believe in (see virtue signaling )
You don't have to argue to convince or find common ground, and not doing so doesn't mean you're arguing in bad faith. The closest thing to "bad faith" online is creating an account purporting to be a communist when you're really a Trump supporter just to argue against certain communist points. Once again, though, that assumes intentions. Shutting down an account as being a sock instead of just arguing soundly makes you look like an asshole 9/10 times.
 
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You don't have to argue to convince or find common ground, and not doing so doesn't mean you're arguing in bad faith. The closest thing to "bad faith" online is creating an account purporting to be a communist when you're really a Trump supporter just to argue against certain communist points. Once again, though, that assumes intentions. Shutting down an account as being a sock instead of just arguing soundly makes you look like an asshole 9/10 times.

I think you misunderstand what I was saying

Its "Bad faith" in that your not here to discuss, argue, convince , etc. Like if you are making an argument for Virtue signal purposes but you are IMPLYING its not that sort of a pro-forma thing for you
 
If a fedora-tipping atheist goes up to a Christian who says that homosexuality is a sin, and says "But I bet you eat shellfish, huh? Isn't that an abomination too?", that is a bad faith argument because the neckbeard does not themselves believe in the moral authority of the Bible. It's an argument, perhaps, for the hypocrisy of someone who follows one line from Leviticus but not another, but it is not an argument about the morality or otherwise of homosexuality - it's just a personal attack on the other person, achieved by pretending that the Bible has moral authority (and that if you obey some of it you should obey all of it) from someone who actually believes that you shouldn't obey any of it.

However if a Christian who indeed does not eat shellfish because Leviticus said not to attacks another Christian who does with exactly the same argument that is not a bad faith argument, because that first person agrees with the second that the Bible is a source of moral instruction, and that the second is interpreting it incorrectly and doing something morally wrong (eating shellfish) as a result.

As I see it a bad faith argument is misrepresenting your own beliefs to "win" an argument with someone ("concern trolling"). However, as the above example shows, by arguing in such a way the best you can achieve is attacking a person's character in terms of how their beliefs or behaviour match their own ideology, but they can't address the correctness or otherwise of the ideology itself.

In a legal sense, "bad faith" means misrepresenting your intentions with regard to another party to gain an advantage over them. For example, if Company A announced it was going to acquire a rival Company B, and asked to go over Company B's internal documentation to do "due diligence", but never completed the takeover, and in fact never intended to buy it and just wanted to spy on it, that's an act of Bad Faith and Company B may have grounds to sue.
 
If a fedora-tipping atheist goes up to a Christian who says that homosexuality is a sin, and says "But I bet you eat shellfish, huh? Isn't that an abomination too?", that is a bad faith argument because the neckbeard does not themselves believe in the moral authority of the Bible. It's an argument, perhaps, for the hypocrisy of someone who follows one line from Leviticus but not another, but it is not an argument about the morality or otherwise of homosexuality - it's just a personal attack on the other person, achieved by pretending that the Bible has moral authority (and that if you obey some of it you should obey all of it) from someone who actually believes that you shouldn't obey any of it.

However if a Christian who indeed does not eat shellfish because Leviticus said not to attacks another Christian who does with exactly the same argument that is not a bad faith argument, because that first person agrees with the second that the Bible is a source of moral instruction, and that the second is interpreting it incorrectly and doing something morally wrong (eating shellfish) as a result.

As I see it a bad faith argument is misrepresenting your own beliefs to "win" an argument with someone ("concern trolling"). However, as the above example shows, by arguing in such a way the best you can achieve is attacking a person's character in terms of how their beliefs or behaviour match their own ideology, but they can't address the correctness or otherwise of the ideology itself.

In a legal sense, "bad faith" means misrepresenting your intentions with regard to another party to gain an advantage over them. For example, if Company A announced it was going to acquire a rival Company B, and asked to go over Company B's internal documentation to do "due diligence", but never completed the takeover, and in fact never intended to buy it and just wanted to spy on it, that's an act of Bad Faith and Company B may have grounds to sue.
Regarding the Leviticus thing: I think it's fair to swing that bat at the crazies who use Leviticus quotes to be annoying. You're holding someone to their stated rules. Average fedora-tipper trying to count coup on some random Christian should shut up though because if he knows anything about the Bible he'd realize Mosaic Law isn't even applicable to modern Christians.
 
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`Argument` as in `activity`, not as in `statement`.

"Arguing in bad faith":
- you have a conflict with an opponent
- you agree to debate him to attempt to resolve it and present something that you claim is your position
- thus, you claim your position is correct and if he accepts it, he'll be better off (because you sincerely believe it's the objective truth and everyone is better off knowing and agreeing with the objective truth)
- meanwhile, you aren't actually trying to persuade the opponent and gain an ally, you're trying to get strategic advantage for another means of resolution by having him engage in debate at all.

Broadly, this includes just straight up lying about your position, because if you lie, what you try to persuade your opponent of isn't the truth, you aren't interested in him as an ally, and he's just wasting time (yours is presumably cheaper).

Some specific examples:
- a 1337 hacker taking a conversation to PMs to insert a tracking pixel into his
- a troon "debating" a feminist on twitter to have her banned for saying "biological woman"
- a legislator debating the finer points of a popular bill he's secretly against, to "improve" it, to ensure it doesn't get voted on before the election

None of this has any bearing on the actual truthfullness or worth of the statements used during the activity.
 
I'd say a bad faith argument is one which in some sense you know is faulty but are using anyway. In the most concrete sense, pushing studies you know are questionable about <insert topic here> in a book or a blog post or whatever because you think it will be useful in convincing people, rather than because you truly find them to be convincing studies. And various abstractions of this. Pretty much everyone in politics does this if they think that they can remotely get away with it. That's why it's politics and not formal debate.
 
Setting aside whether this is a bad faith question, "bad faith argument" has a number of different definitions. When I studied argument and rhetoric in college, BFA was a tactic designed to waste another person's time or humiliate them or make fun of them or provoke them into becoming unglued, by apparently engaging in an argument (in the philosophical sense of proposing and considering propositions) but doing so insincerely and not to discover "truth" or agreed views - which is the purpose of argument - but for another malicious purpose.
For instance Alice might her conversation with Bob as a sincere request for information and so impose on Bob the largely social obligation to explain and justify his views. Alice then asks questions that seemingly seek more information or willfully misinterpret what Bob is saying and so keep him on the line, In other words, she responds to each piece of information Bob provides by misinterpreting it or seeking further clarification, but does not actually want the information; rather she wants Bob to continue dancing to her tune. Alice is attempting to harass or waste Bob's time and she has no intention of sincerely entertaining Bob's points. The "bad faith" is that argument is considered an activity - as others have pointed out - that rests on social norms of sincerity and respect and trust but Alice is abusing those - for a malicious purpose.
It is difficult to extract one's self from such situations. If Bob accuses Alice of acting in bad faith he can look evasive; she can innocently deny it (effectively engaging in another bad faith argument) and Bob again looks bad for making the accusation. And he also appears gullible and Alice can appear superior and smart.
Bad faith arguments erode trust and comity. And I have seen them lead to blows.
 
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