Containment What If?

I can imagine it. Because there have been "Chris in the military" threads before
 
He'd ignore it until it became impossible to ignore. Using the same magical thinking that powers his curses and will someday bring him a sweetheart, he'd probably assume it would just get better if he wished hard enough. There'd probably be some tard-rage-fuelled denial that he could possibly have anything wrong with him, because he lives such a healthy lifestyle. Basically, it'll take a really major scare to get him to take any action other than the usual self-shitting and nothing-doing.
 
I currently am in community college so uhh... well, probably be Attraction Sign 2.0 time or something. I dunno. Might not even be the most weird, poorly functioning person enrolled to be honest.
 
Chris in the military would be more like "No Time for Sergeants" without the bumbling hick actually doing stuff right.

Chris would totally make the toilets stand at attention when his officers came in for inspection.
 
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There's no need to respond to bann users' questions.
 
My big issue with the whole 6/6/10 incident is Snyder et al. trying to physically prevent Chris from leaving. I'm pretty sure that wasn't legal. Maybe not rising to the level of a false imprisonment, but to my understanding Chris hadn't done anything criminal.

Chris harassing Snyder is stupid, and probably would've been grounds for Snyder taking out an order of protection against Chris, particularly with the witnesses that were present. The cops making Chris delete the pictures actually made matters way better for Chris. The publication of such images might've been grounds for some right of publicity claim against Chris, and while that wouldn't have been worth much in terms of monetary damages, Snyder could've gotten some kind of injunction, at least against publication of the image.

Anyhow, just based on what happened, unless something more physical had happened, it's unlikely that Chris would have been taken in. Even for disorderly conduct... I don't think the cops could have even dragged him in on their discretion. Even if Chris had been banned from the store at that time, unless he'd been banned, showed up anyway, been told to leave and then refused to leave, I don't think the cops would have carted him off. Would've made a restraining order case real simple, though. Real damn simple.
 
Re: What if ... Taylor Swift dated Our Pet Lolcow?

Taylor Swift would do something to cause a break-up, or just flat out dump Chris. Then she'd write a mediocre country song about how it's all Chris's fault that they broke up, and sing about :sonichu:, :briefs: , and :tugboat:. Taylor Swift's new "hit" The Recolor, the Briefs, and the Tugboat.
 
Lefty's Revenge said:
Compared to Chris and to an extent Barb, I don't know much about Bob from a mental standpoint. I came into Christory after he had been dead for a little under a year. However, I could see Bob trying to speak to Snyder mano y mano to get him to realize why his speshul snowflake shouldn't be sued.

I could also see Bob potentially being something close to a voice of reason here. The Chandlers were all very paranoid and had victim complexes. But its clear that Bob wanted Chris to take some form of responsibility over his life. He at least encouraged him to get an education.

Then again, I believe he was the one who told Chris that he'd make more money on the tugboat then actually working so who the fuck knows?
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Getting fired by Wendy's after 3 weeks-1 month proves that Chris would've never made it in the job market. So, Bob figured that Chris would be better off getting a tugboat because he knew that if he were to die, Chris would be screwed without ever having learned any real skills in the job market.

Now, we all know that Chris is kind of screwed anyway, but at the very least, he has a tugboat, so maybe he could get Section 8 and live with :pickleman:?
 
blackie toy said:
My big issue with the whole 6/6/10 incident is Snyder et al. trying to physically prevent Chris from leaving. I'm pretty sure that wasn't legal. Maybe not rising to the level of a false imprisonment, but to my understanding Chris hadn't done anything criminal.

Chris harassing Snyder is stupid, and probably would've been grounds for Snyder taking out an order of protection against Chris, particularly with the witnesses that were present. The cops making Chris delete the pictures actually made matters way better for Chris. The publication of such images might've been grounds for some right of publicity claim against Chris, and while that wouldn't have been worth much in terms of monetary damages, Snyder could've gotten some kind of injunction, at least against publication of the image.

Anyhow, just based on what happened, unless something more physical had happened, it's unlikely that Chris would have been taken in. Even for disorderly conduct... I don't think the cops could have even dragged him in on their discretion. Even if Chris had been banned from the store at that time, unless he'd been banned, showed up anyway, been told to leave and then refused to leave, I don't think the cops would have carted him off. Would've made a restraining order case real simple, though. Real damn simple.
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If someone commits a crime in the United States, you can choose to make a citizen's arrest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest_in_the_United_States

Generally, most people wouldn't think of doing this unless they are the wronged party. But Michael Snyder is a store manager; if someone steals from the Game Place, he has the right to make that citizen's arrest until the police come. He's liable for what happens if he's wrong and that can most certainly include false imprisonment and various torts.

But Snyder didn't break the law. He's a store manager; he's got to make this difficult call in worse circumstances.

If those photos are on Chris' Phone, that is ironclad evidence that he was trespassing (and violating the law) in the Game Place. Chris had already been banned twice from the Game Place by this point. If Michael Snyder wants his pound of Lolbeef, he can have it with that evidence. But you are correct; deleting those photos was a real good move both in avoiding an immediate fight and for preventing this situation from turning desperate.

The scenario essentially requires that doesn't happen, and it seems like here too Chris was luckier than he has any right to be.
 
You're absolutely right that Snyder would be justified in detaining someone who he reasonably suspected of shoplifting (I forget the exact elements that make it justified, but it's something to that effect). See, e.g., Montgomery Ward & Co. v. Freeman, 199 F.2d 720, 723-24 (4th Cir. 1952) (citing W. T. Grant & Co. v. Owens, 141 S.E. 860 (Va. 1928)). But, you're talking about the crime of criminal trespass, which is a helluva lot more complicated than shoplifting. Trespass to real property after being forbidden to enter is indeed a Class 1 misdemeanor in Virginia. Va. Code § 18.2-119. Now, part of the issue is this is the same law for both places of business normally open to the public (Game Place), places that are marked "no trespassing", and the like. Another part of this is that there are exceptions: you can't forbid cops to carry out their duties by telling them to leave (with limited exceptions), and you can't do things like forbid blacks from patronizing your business when it's a business that affects interstate commerce (which can include a restaurant that primarily serves locals). Katzenbach v. McClung, 379 U.S. 294 (1964). In short, I suspect that it's not enough for Snyder to tell Chris he's forbidden from entering, for Snyder to continue running his business, and years later Chris coming by and entering; in that case, there probably wouldn't be a criminal trespass (most likely because of a criminal intent requirement). See, e.g., O'Banion v. Commonwealth, 531 S.E.2d 599 (Va. Ct. App. 2000).

As to the citizen's arrest, I suspect there is reason to doubt whether you can arrest a person for this kind of trespass, especially when he's arguably complying with the order to leave; it's not like he's fleeing with merchandise, as might justify pursuit of a shoplifter, and everyone knows who he is and where he lives, also unlike your average shoplifter. At common law, a private person could arrest a person who committed a felony or breach of the peace in his presence. See Hudson v. Commonwealth, 585 S.E.2d 583 (Va. 2003). A "breach of the peace" was classically defined in Virginia in Byrd v. Commonwealth, 164 S.E. 400 (Va. 1932), and generally may be understood to encompass a crime that disturbs the public peace, violates the public order, or violates public decorum. Id. at 402 (quoting Davis v. Burgess, 20 N.W. 540, 542 (Mich. 1884)). Whether it constitutes a breach of the peace is probably a bit different. Certainly, Snyder shouldn't be required to inform Chris of his need to leave every time he attempts to enter. And certainly, there are factual circumstances that might merit detaining Chris just for entering (e.g., breaking and entering at night), but these are much more serious crimes, and aren't offenses that can simply be remedied by leaving. In other words, even if Chris's mere entry was sufficient to constitute a criminal trespass, I suspect that it wouldn't rise to the level of conduct justifying an immediate warrantless arrest.

I also suspect that the fact Chris had been banned twice previously would actually be a mitigating factor: it shows at least some evidence that Snyder's "bans" aren't permanent. Chris very well could argue he believed the ban wasn't in effect, which might negate the criminal intent element of the trespass.

Anyway, that's my gut feeling on it (plus what would probably be $500 in legal research costs if I paid for my Westlaw access). I'm honestly starting to think Snyder was asking to get run down by playing sheriff in these instances. The right thing to do would be get a freaking order of protection taken out. You don't even need a lawyer to do it. Have some judicial record that Chris isn't allowed. Or post a "NO CHRIS CHANDLER" sign. Then call the cops when he comes. He'll get dragged before a judge. Easy peasy. And if it's too much trouble, then Snyder should be prepared to deal with it.
tl;dr: Criminal trespass requires criminal intent. That requires notice and proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the notice was understood. Citizen's arrests are fine for shoplifting, but when someone's arguably complying with the order to leave, not as much. What Chris did probably wouldn't even be an arrestable offense. You take a big risk when you try to pen a car in with your body. Use the legal system to your advantage: take out a restraining order on someone that troublesome or deal with it.
 
Its really hard to see how Snyder can get busted for this if CWC has pictures of his daughter on his phone; it's completely evidence of trespass and the facts of the case are pretty solid even after the fact.

http://www.ehow.com/info_8581945_illegal-pictures-people-permission.html I'd like to find a harder justification than this, but I'm pretty sure that CWC was interfering with Snyder's attempt to run a business. It's a civil tort, but it's also the case for kicking someone out like CWC out of a business.

Chris wasn't supposed to be there, he knows this, he came back anyway, now there's hard evidence to prove that he was back. And Chris basically admitted all of this as well, and probably would to the Jerkops if they appeared later. But a lot of this jurisprudence discussion ignores the realities that this is CWC we are talking about here. We might have a better legal understanding than Michael Synder, which is fair--he might never have taken a law course in school (as I have) or had much interest in it.

But this is CWC. This isn't Rosa Parks. He can't conceive of these highly nuanced civil torts and citizen's arrest versus false imprisonment, and I strongly doubt the ACLU is going to march in and try to intervene on behalf of a guy thats essentially the worst character to champion any cause. In a realpolitik sense, Michael Snyder faces zero risk of CWC trying to sue him for any kind of tort--because CWC is about the last guy a lawyer would take seriously to make a lawsuit. This isn't false imprisonment, it is trespassing and the photos on the phone make that stick.

The Police played peacemaker in a way that probably favored OPL. Without even understanding it, he lucked out in nearly identical circumstances to the incident he'd be arrested for a year later. Frankly, he learned nothing at all on June 6th...but it could very easily have been the same scenario as 10/28/11.
 
Lefty's Revenge said:
I could also see Bob potentially being something close to a voice of reason here. The Chandlers were all very paranoid and had victim complexes. But its clear that Bob wanted Chris to take some form of responsibility over his life. He at least encouraged him to get an education.

Then again, I believe he was the one who told Chris that he'd make more money on the tugboat then actually working so who the fuck knows?
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Well, I'm pretty sure ABL called Chris' home to talk with Borb about the incident and they refused to do anything except take his side.
 
The title explains it all.

What if Manchester High had a decent autism program? A room perhaps where autistics like Chris ( Im sure he wasn't the only one there) could "check in" and recieve help for various social and academic foibles?

I get the sense MHS didn't really have one, and just had a general "sped room." I've heard in some states with poor education funding ( the south) special ed rooms are little more than a slightly spruced up broom closets to dump "problem kids". I also know Autism special ed was just beginning to start in the 90s, mainly aimed at grade schoolers.

Would it have made any difference, teachers and assistance who actually knew about autism and were able to really know what was going on with Chris? Is that what happened At MHS, and it made no difference? Borb must have had to attend IEP meetings for Chris, if those things existed back then. Any thoughts?
 
They'd hold him down and record his screams. :alog:
 
AtreyuFalcor said:
The title explains it all.

What if Manchester High had a decent autism program? A room perhaps where autistics like Chris ( Im sure he wasn't the only one there) could "check in" and recieve help for various social and academic foibles?

I get the sense MHS didn't really have one, and just had a general "sped room." I've heard in some states with poor education funding ( the south) special ed rooms are little more than a slightly spruced up broom closets to dump "problem kids". I also know Autism special ed was just beginning to start in the 90s, mainly aimed at grade schoolers.

Would it have made any difference, teachers and assistance who actually knew about autism and were able to really know what was going on with Chris? Is that what happened At MHS, and it made no difference? Borb must have had to attend IEP meetings for Chris, if those things existed back then. Any thoughts?
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holy fucking shit will you shut up about autism already it's obvious you don't know shit about it

anyway who says they didn't? it's just that chris' parents insisted on mainstreaming and keeping him out of stuff that could be beneficial to his development, instead choosing to instill their own shitty values
 
Would it have made any difference in what? You didn't really ask any clear question there.
 
I can confirm that Manchester has a special ed program, at least. I worked with a woman who recently who sub teached for the special ed program there.
 
This is implying Chris's problems stem from his mild autism.
Anything he would have learned from a "decent autism program" would have been undone by Borb telling him he's normal and perfect and running away to another county...again.
 
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