What Is Middle Class? - A Dicussion of Wealth and Income

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What is Middle Class to you?

  • 20k-40k

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 40k-60k

    Votes: 8 40.0%
  • 60k-80k

    Votes: 6 30.0%
  • 80k-100k

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 100k-120k

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • 120k-140k

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • 150k+ (I make infinite money and will send some to Gym Leader Elesa)

    Votes: 2 10.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Gym Leader Elesa

Pog my champ hole and defend the Thots
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
So, the longer I have spent on the forums the more I have noticed an interesting trend. The most vocal Kiwis seem to vastly underestimate the actual value of money, or at least be quite ignorant of regional differences. For instance, in a Chris-Chan thread at one time, people expressed shock at his tugboat income and said he could never survive on it by itself, despite the fact that he would be over the poverty line in his native region and capable of affording a nice apartment, car payments, and bills (assuming he wasn't a retard.) Apparently, the amount in question (I think roughly $1,300 a month) was very low to them, yet you could buy a house in Virginia if you waited a few years and banked that right.

To a use an extremely powerlevel-y example, I have mentioned to people that I and my partner moved to a region of the Northern U.S. for a combined salary of 80k a year. Most people in the wider New England/North Atlantic region react with utter shock, as if this were dirt poor. "No reason to move!" Despite the fact that I can afford an apartment downtown in a city of 100,000+, two cars, pay my parents bills, and still save 35k-50k a year...?

Am I just more frugal than others? Are people just more sheltered in wealthier regions? Stuck up?

Where I come from, let's just say the minimum wage is low if it exists at all. I spent most of my time in the U.S. down South, where you can live comfortably on $10 an hour most places if you have two people making that income. In my precious Gulf/Caribbean homeland, $10 an hour USD leaves you living like a goddamn King.

My European father lived the high life in Barcelona in the mid 2000's on much less than what I am making now, but "Yankees" for lack of a better term, who often make much less than me, seem disinclined to believe that I am "doing well". More confusingly, many of these people are my own age, which is only just old enough to sign a lease or own property outright in their particular state, but react with a most blasé attitude to people who come from other places and have done more than them with less. I frequently get asked "what my parents do".

I am in my fucking 20's. Why would you ask that? It is my job to take care of them. We pay for their house and help with their bills. This culture seems so backwards. But am I the backwards one?

So, Kiwis, how about you? What do you think is "doing well"? How do other regions compare to yours? Do you have experiences like this? Is this "WASP" culture I hear so much about? Am I dirt poor?

@Legatus Lanius, @Splendid Meat Sticks, my northern hombres, what do you think of this?

Side Note: a man here told a dude one day to go back to his "$15 an hour burger-flipping loser job." How the fuck do you make $15 an hour flipping fucking burgers? Does that happen here? Where? How can a society have that much money? That doesn't even happen in the richest parts of Europe if you adjust for income equivalency. What the Hell?
 
watto.jpg

You're asking the wrong guy here. My family were all peasents that had little schooling, and no horses to shoe. Money, was and is one of the things you never asked about or mentioned.
PA's medoan income last year was around 50K. And the cost of living in and around Pittsburgh is appearently much cheaper than most cities. Middle class? Probably around 35K to ahhhhhh 70K.
Watto2.jpg


Oh...and as for the 15 dollar an hour thing. People have been calling for a living wage (one where housing doesn't take more than 30% of your budget is one measure). Its one of the few things in Catholic social teaching the liberals adopted while the conservatives shunned. The minimum wage has been at 7.25 since 2009. If you adjusted it to inflation and cost of living, that would be in the ballpark of $15 if we're being conservative. To get an idea where part of the problem comes in, remember that the CEO of McDonald's saw a pay raise from $1.5 million in 2014 to $8 million. He's not alone though.
I understand that not everyone (kids in high school) should make 15 bucks an hour, but unless we invest in adult education and job training to give people a chance to work full time at someplace else, there isn't much we can do. The biggest thing I agreed with Sanders was that if you worked 40 hours a week, assuming you're actually a good worker, you shouldn't live in poverty. But without an education, what else are they to do? Macky's might be all they can work if they don't have a GED, let alone a usable BS diploma, or even an AS diploma. The people with must freely give to those without. If they won't, somebody else will. If I was a CEO, I wouldn't take 8 million dollars. I wouldn't take 1 million. I could settle on finding ways to cut costs on resources (of which the company model wastes quite a bit at McDonald's) and executive expenses, even go cut my salary by half.
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I think a lot of it is regional. Of course, 1,300k a month isn't shit to someone living in LA or New York. But in rural Virginia, it's pretty good. And since most of the population live within those urban boundaries, most people will view that as quite a low income. Its not that theyre stuck up or sheltered per say, but shit is just so damn expensive there...
 
Everyone who makes less money than me is poor and doesn't apply themselves.
The small number of people who are genuinely self made or have a very hard degree are good rich people.
The others are the bad rich people who are destroying America.
 
Do you want an econ sperg? Feel free to say no...

I'm holding back on that unless someone asks. To me middle class is a place where money doesn't matter.... you don't have enough to stress how to invest does the market give me good returns, but you don't stress can I pay bills etc.

Middle class is more a mind set to me than a economic situation. While middle class is a very real economical stand point I think what 95% of people think of in regards to middle class is a more social stand point than economic one.
 
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It's very relative to where you live
Side Note: a man here told a dude one day to go back to his "$15 an hour burger-flipping loser job." How the fuck do you make $15 an hour flipping fucking burgers? Does that happen here? Where? How can a society have that much money? That doesn't even happen in the richest parts of Europe if you adjust for income equivalency. What the Hell?
San Francisco (and several other cities) are in the process of raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, and some places already pay that much or more for burger flipping.

Incidentally, the median house price here is over $1 million, and a one bedroom apartment costs thousands per month.

Am I dirt poor?
By SF standards yes.
 
Do you want an econ sperg? Feel free to say no...

I'm holding back on that unless someone asks. To me middle class is a place where money doesn't matter.... you don't have enough to stress how to invest does the market give me good returns, but you don't stress can I pay bills etc.

Middle class is more a mind set to me than a economic situation. While middle class is a very real economical stand point I think what 95% of people think of in regards to middle class is a more social stand point than economic one.

I am an ignorant retard and will always value some good ol' fashion lecturing.
 
Why is Hawaii and Alaska so expensive?
Hawaii is super expensive because there's little land and a lot of people.
Alaska requires a lot of special shit to survive, and you have to live in a city or your life will be fucking miserable. Alaskans do make good money though.
 
So, the longer I have spent on the forums the more I have noticed an interesting trend. The most vocal Kiwis seem to vastly underestimate the actual value of money, or at least be quite ignorant of regional differences. For instance, in a Chris-Chan thread at one time, people expressed shock at his tugboat income and said he could never survive on it by itself, despite the fact that he would be over the poverty line in his native region and capable of affording a nice apartment, car payments, and bills (assuming he wasn't an exceptional individual.) Apparently, the amount in question (I think roughly $1,300 a month) was very low to them, yet you could buy a house in Virginia if you waited a few years and banked that right.

To a use an extremely powerlevel-y example, I have mentioned to people that I and my partner moved to a region of the Northern U.S. for a combined salary of 80k a year. Most people in the wider New England/North Atlantic region react with utter shock, as if this were dirt poor. "No reason to move!" Despite the fact that I can afford an apartment downtown in a city of 100,000+, two cars, pay my parents bills, and still save 35k-50k a year...?

Am I just more frugal than others? Are people just more sheltered in wealthier regions? Stuck up?

Where I come from, let's just say the minimum wage is low if it exists at all. I spent most of my time in the U.S. down South, where you can live comfortably on $10 an hour most places if you have two people making that income. In my precious Gulf/Caribbean homeland, $10 an hour USD leaves you living like a goddamn King.

My European father lived the high life in Barcelona in the mid 2000's on much less than what I am making now, but "Yankees" for lack of a better term, who often make much less than me, seem disinclined to believe that I am "doing well". More confusingly, many of these people are my own age, which is only just old enough to sign a lease or own property outright in their particular state, but react with a most blasé attitude to people who come from other places and have done more than them with less. I frequently get asked "what my parents do".

I am in my fucking 20's. Why would you ask that? It is my job to take care of them. We pay for their house and help with their bills. This culture seems so backwards. But am I the backwards one?

So, Kiwis, how about you? What do you think is "doing well"? How do other regions compare to yours? Do you have experiences like this? Is this "WASP" culture I hear so much about? Am I dirt poor?

@Legatus Lanius, @Splendid Meat Sticks, my northern hombres, what do you think of this?

Side Note: a man here told a dude one day to go back to his "$15 an hour burger-flipping loser job." How the fuck do you make $15 an hour flipping fucking burgers? Does that happen here? Where? How can a society have that much money? That doesn't even happen in the richest parts of Europe if you adjust for income equivalency. What the Hell?

In Boston a decent apartment is 2000 a month because of the colleges and hospitals and the rich families who will pay top dollar to live there. You honestly would have to make of 20 dollars a hour to live comfortably. Boston reddit is blaming the late Menino for restrictions, but my opinions is that it is unreasonable to charge 2000 in rent when you can get a house for less.
 
In Boston a decent apartment is 2000 a month because of the colleges and hospitals and the rich families who will pay top dollar to live there. You honestly would have to make of 20 dollars a hour to live comfortably. Boston reddit is blaming the late Menino for restrictions, but my opinions is that it is unreasonable to charge 2000 in rent when you can get a house for less.

We have a similar problem in my college town. Rent has skyrocketed in the past decade, thanks in part to the housing collapse and the local college expanding. We even have a law here that dictates that no more than 3 unrelated individuals may cohabitate in the same rental unit, which has driven the need for apartments even higher. The rent for a 1 bed, 1 bath place here is about 1200$. I lived in the cheapest, shittiest 2 bed in the city (I actually checked) and my half of the rent was still 600$ + utilities.
 
I'm projected to make about $40k out of college, which is pretty good as a single person but still too low for me to remain in my home state without serious belt-tightening. It almost makes me want to get married just for the financial benefits, to be honest.

It's not a bad idea marriage has been a staggering 200% improvement on my life (and probably a -200% decline on their's, the sucker).
 
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