What is the relationship between God’s omnipotence and human free will?

[Brightstar777]

How does God’s omnipotence relate to human free will, and what are the theological and philosophical implications of this relationship? Specifically, how can we reconcile the idea of an all-powerful God with the existence of genuine human interaction in decision-making? What role does divine foreknowledge play in this dynamic, and how do various religious traditions interpret the coexistence of divine sovereignty and human freedom? Additionally, how do these discussions influence our understanding of moral responsibility, the presence of evil in the world, and the nature of grace and redemption?

 

[SpergioLeonne]

I personally believe that the correlation between the amount of information and the accuracy of predictions heavily implies we live in a deterministic universe where it all already happened and we’re living it out.

Like, Eru wrote the music and the ainur played it out

 

[TheOtherSideofMakeBelieve]

I'm an atheist but my best understanding of it is that (Judaism/Christianity's) God created Man out of a desire for companionship, and part of companionship is that there has to be a choice, if Man doesn't have the option to reject God then there's no difference between companionship and enslavement. Angels are probably closer to what you're imagining humans should be, but He had already created them so there was no need to do so a second time

As far as foreknowledge goes, just because He knows what will happen doesn't mean that the person didn't make their own choices. Man was given the gift of free will to do with it as the individual sees fit, be it good or evil, and He has made the decision to not intervene. There's not really any contradiction to reconcile there unless you think free will was a mistake since an omnipotent/omniscient being shouldn't make mistakes, but since free will (and the subsequent companionship or rejection that inevitably leads to) was the entire point of Man that's a really hard argument to make

 

[Brightstar777]

I'm an atheist but my best understanding of it is that (Judaism/Christianity's) God created Man out of a desire for companionship, and part of companionship is that there has to be a choice, if Man doesn't have the option to reject God then there's no difference between companionship and enslavement. Angels are probably closer to what you're imagining humans should be, but He had already created them so there was no need to do so a second time

As far as foreknowledge goes, just because He knows what will happen doesn't mean that the person didn't make their own choices. Man was given the gift of free will to do with it as the individual sees fit, be it good or evil, and He has made the decision to not intervene. There's not really any contradiction to reconcile there unless you think free will was a mistake since an omnipotent/omniscient being shouldn't make mistakes, but since free will (and the subsequent companionship or rejection that inevitably leads to) was the entire point of Man that's a really hard argument to make

are you sure of your atheism?

 

[WTBOnlineFather]

God has no need for slaves who lack free will, and without free will men would have no need for God.

 

[CowPox]

Omnipotence is not real.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

A path is set for you but you have the free will to deviate from it. Whether what happens to you is deterministic or random is mostly irrelevant because you as yourself have not experienced it. The flaw and the blessing in the human condition is the free will. That we can even think of doing something other than what we do now is foreign to all of life except for us. The fish swims. He does not wonder how it would be to swim in the river instead of the ocean. He either gets there or not, but he swims nonetheless. The flower grows and it does not gaze over the field and wonder what it would be like to grow in the shade. The flower grows. And the deer may wonder whether danger is near but this is by design and instinct - he does not wonder if the grass tastes better 20 miles away. He grazes.

The man, however, cannot stop at instinct. He must involve himself and manipulate. He is taken by evils and distractions and things that are wholly self-destructive and he does this by his own choice, knowing the outcomes. Instead of being like the flower or the fish or the deer, he is now caught in a whirlwind of feelings and wonderings and what-if statements and it is not simple. This simple fact of critical thought and broadened cognitive horizons leaves him distraught and hurt. The very fact that he cannot just swim or just grow or just graze in the sunshine and must instead predict and moralize illustrates his free will.

The omnipotence of God is that He has created all things which simply do as they must do in order to be. The free will of man is in direct opposition to His omnipotence. Your path in life is the light but every moment you have a choice whether you will consume the apple of the garden and turn away from His grace. It was not instinct that brought forth original sin. It isn’t instinct that causes sin now. It’s the corruption and perversion of the human spirit and mind that is comorbid to free will.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Omnipotence is not real.

Depends your definition of it. If there is a being that created the universe and the universal laws of nature, then he is omnipotent within the context of that creation. If you are instead defining it in the context of "but who created the creator?! then there really is nothing to discuss because it's meaningless to try and conceptualize this outside the context of reality.

 

[Spooky Dogwood]

As told by Saint Terry, Mr. God created an RNG seed for his own entertainment.

 

[Preacher ✝]

God granted us free will because he would rather have one person that genuinely and freely loves him back than an infinite supply of perfect mindless drones.

Most of human suffering and sinfulness is the cost of that free will. It's also why you hear things like "God works in mysterious ways" since that's how he still gets things done without infringing upon our free will.

Take for example the case of Jonah and the Whale. God wanted Jonah to go preach to Nineveh. Jonah was afraid of what might happen to him and freely chose to go elsewhere. God had a whale eat him and bring him back to Nineveh where he preached and was successful.

Some might take that as God interfering with free will but that is not the case. If it were Jonah would have simply been unable to choose not to go to Nineveh in the first place.

 

[TheOtherSideofMakeBelieve]

are you sure of your atheism?

Yeah, it's something I'm interested in so I try to be respectful. I'd like to believe but I've never been able to make the leap of faith. As a kid I did my best, figuring my parents had to be right so I'd figure it out for myself someday, but it never happened and at some I couldn't keep lying, neither to myself nor my family.

It would legitimately probably take something on the level of the rapture to convince me of the hypothetical error of my ways

 

[Thomas Talus]

I'm an atheist but my best understanding of it is that (Judaism/Christianity's) God created Man out of a desire for companionship, and part of companionship is that there has to be a choice, if Man doesn't have the option to reject God then there's no difference between companionship and enslavement. Angels are probably closer to what you're imagining humans should be, but He had already created them so there was no need to do so a second time

As far as foreknowledge goes, just because He knows what will happen doesn't mean that the person didn't make their own choices. Man was given the gift of free will to do with it as the individual sees fit, be it good or evil, and He has made the decision to not intervene. There's not really any contradiction to reconcile there unless you think free will was a mistake since an omnipotent/omniscient being shouldn't make mistakes, but since free will (and the subsequent companionship or rejection that inevitably leads to) was the entire point of Man that's a really hard argument to make

Aside from not being an atheist, that's basically what my take has always been. Being omnipotent doesn't mean you are always directly exercising that power; that way lies the Islamic concept of Occasionalism. And God existing outside of the constraints of time and viewing it as a whole doesn't mean that those within time aren't acting as agents as we understand the concept of agency.

 

[Soy Fed]

Yeah, it's something I'm interested in so I try to be respectful. I'd like to believe but I've never been able to make the leap of faith. As a kid I did my best, figuring my parents had to be right so I'd figure it out for myself someday, but it never happened and at some I couldn't keep lying, neither to myself nor my family.

It would legitimately probably take something on the level of the rapture to convince me of the hypothetical error of my ways

My reasoning is that since every culture on Earth has developed religion and those cultures which deliberately destroy religion degenerate, religion must be an evolved feature of humanity. I think it might be an extension of the ability to "mirror" the perspectives of others, since many autistics are atheist. I would even take it a step further and say that I do not believe in atheists per se, rather the distinction between synchronous magical thinking and atomized magical thinking. See the autists trooning out. Having spoken to many atheists, it's clear they still believe in magic, but also believe that they don't. The brain is ultimately modular and only rational post-hoc.
As for free will, which I think is best regarded as a contiguous part of consciousness and language, I would say it's necessary for people to develop religion/morality and to decide how to evolve, which is humanity's prerogative.

 

[Kung Pow]

Define free will, when God hardened pharaoh's heart, did he violated his free will or gave what he wanted?

 

[One Winged Pear Farmer]

Seeing Christians try to explain how two completely incompatible and exclusionary concepts work in tandem never ceases to amuse