What is your opinion on the ongoing situation in Tibet? - (a refugee from the Hasan Piker thread)

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Actually the present Dalai Lama has acquiesced to Chinese communist control. He calls for democracy and more representation for the Tibetans in their own homeland. Not that it matters - the Chinese communists seem determined to do the same things to the Tibetans that they are doing to the Uighurs, then use Nepal as a potential springboard into India.

As an aside, this is just more demonstrable proof that the Chinese socialists are as nationalist and as fascist as the National Socialists of Germany were. Likewise their interests are clearly nationalist, strategic and economic. The CCP is promoting the interests of the Han Chinese in the same way National Socialists promoted the interests of the "Aryan" Germans and the Bolshevik Empire promoted the interests of Russians. The inherent racist bigotry, anti-Semitism and bald-faced hypocrisy of socialists in the West is increasingly making itself manifest as well, with the Maoists imitating them in their own unique cultural way.
Besides Tibetans and Uyghurs, there are no minorities actively suppressed by the CCP (and Tibetans face nowhere near as much suppression as the Uyghurs do) and the CCP is full of minority politicians. "National socialism" is a good descriptor for China, but to call China akin to Nazi Germany is a complete distortion. China is more civic nationalist than ethnosupremacist, and in their civic nationalism they are determined to achieve economic subjugation of the world rather than the globalist national self-hatred promoted as state ideology in the US and EU.

BTW is this the same "Bolshevik Empire" which was led mainly by Jews until an ethnic Georgian purged them all, and then was subsequently headed by a Ukrainian who reversed the genocidal deportations ordered by said Georgian, and then another Ukrainian headed the country for 18 years and let it stagnate? I'm getting a little skeptical about your grasp on history and ethnicity.
And in the 15th century the Swiss were a violent state known for their mercenaries. No one today advocates that Switzerland ought to be invaded and suppressed to combat militarism in Europe. This is even less reasonable than Putin arguing that his war in Ukraine is to combat a National Socialist presence there.
I never said there was, I said that because we were discussing what the average Tibetan was in times past. Unlike the Swiss, the average Tibetan still lived a medieval lifestyle before the CCP built roads and invested in the region's natural resources. Putin is of course correct regarding the Nazi presence in the Ukraine given the veneration of Stepan Bandera and other Nazis, the prevelence of Nazi symbology like swastikas and the Black Sun, and the CIA-installed current Ukrainian government's origins in Ukrainian Nazis the CIA helped escape after 1945 to use as tools against the USSR.
Very much comparable, particularly when Poland was a province of the Bolshevik Empire. It's also akin to arguing that Cuba rightfully belongs to the US.
It has literally nothing to do with that as I proved. Poland was never even part of the USSR and was an internationally recognized country after 1918. Tibet was internationally recognized as an autonomous region of China. Therefore China was restoring their authority to their own autonomous region, as China had done in the past (Yuan and Qing restored their authority in Tibet several times). If you want to mention Poland, it's closer to the Russian Empire subduing the 1863 January Uprising in the Kingdom of Poland (aka Congress Poland, legally a state in personal union with Russia and nominally an autonomous region).
Tibet was de facto independent from 1911 to 1951, and maintained diplomatic relations with Nepal, Bhutan, Britain, and later with independent India. The invasion was akin to Turkey deciding to conquer Armenia or Greece.
Yes, de facto, which is not de jure. The entire world (apparently barring Nepal, Bhutan, and 1910s era Mongolia) recognized Tibet as part of the Republic of China. The Republic of China had a large number of de facto independent warlords in that era, of which, yes, other nations conducted diplomacy with.

Got a source on Nepal and Bhutan? Did they actually view Tibet as an independent state separate from China in the 1911-1951 period or was their stance merely the same as Britain's? Because Britain did not view Tibet as an independent state but merely a local authority to be negotiated with. India IIRC inherited this stance after 1947.
Which is why the Great Leap Forward was such a disaster for them, just as it was for the native Chinese. Communist authoritarian racists, who had no respect for the "backward" rural people, decided to impose their idiotic ideas about farming on people who had maintained themselves with traditional forms of farming for centuries. Those who resisted, in the communist tradition, were simply shot. This is particularly why Left fascists are so bad at agriculture - they don't know what the fuck they are doing, and are too arrogant and tyrannical to admit it. When their terrorized farmers try to do things in a way that works, they get killed for it. So the socialists eventually get their way, destroy the next year's crops, and lots of poor people begin to die. Because the socialists are greedy and STILL won't admit they're wrong, they blame the peasants for the mess, steal their remaining food and seed and then sell it overseas for luxury goods to placate their senior socialist elite. This was the formula for at least three separate mass famines in Bolshevik Russia, one of which was very obviously intentional - and the agricultural management system upon which the "Great Leap Forward" was based on..
Tibetans were not disproportionately affected by the Great Leap Forward because the main impacts were in the most productive agricultural regions of China where grain was confiscated.

There were no intentional famines during Stalinism. There was government mismanagement that helped make a natural famine far worse and murder of class enemies, but the Soviet government never created a famine to kill people. Much of that myth was created by the CIA in the 1950s with the aid of Ukrainian Nazi collaborators.
It hasn't faded naturally. It's being deliberately destroyed.

“We often get asked why we don’t hear about Tibet any more,” said Tsering, known as the Sikyong of the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA).

He blamed that silence on China’s “Orwellian gridlock system, use of all means of artificial intelligence to surveil people, control the flow of information and lockdown of Tibet to the outside world”.

“Tibetan language, religion and culture are the bedrock of Tibetan identity … These are facing the unprecedented threat of eradication,” he told the bipartisan Congressional-Executive Commission on China hearing via video link.

“If PRC [[People’s Republic of China] is not made to reverse or change its current policies, Tibet and Tibetans will definitely die a slow death,” Tsering added.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/29/tibet-dying-a-slow-death-under-chinese-rule-says-exiled-leader
Communist China doesn't have a moral right to rule Tibet. They don't even have a moral right to rule mainland China, and are in power there based on coercive force and not much else. What support they had is frittering away as corrupt communist officials rob and cheat the Chinese people and mismanage the country.

The legitimate government of China is based in Taipei. They know it too, which is why the communists are so keen to destroy it.
"Not much else?" The ChiComs won the civil war because the KMT was insanely corrupt, absolutely incompetent at military affairs which took until 1945 to be able to win actual battles against the Japanese. They were despised by vast swathes of the Chinese peasantry and were one step below the Japanese in terms of the damage they did to China--millions died as a result of their policies.
 
Besides Tibetans and Uyghurs, there are no minorities actively suppressed by the CCP (and Tibetans face nowhere near as much suppression as the Uyghurs do) and the CCP is full of minority politicians. "National socialism" is a good descriptor for China, but to call China akin to Nazi Germany is a complete distortion.

Besides Jews, Poles, Slavs and Gypsies, there were no minorities actively suppressed by the National Socialists. They were actually much nicer to African blacks than Americans were, and openly courted the Arab Muslims.

What have the Romans ever done for us? What the hell difference does that make? Am I being unfair to the Chinese communists because National Socialists killed people in their vans using carbon monoxide, while the CCP uses more refined methods with their death vans so they can harvest the parts and sell them?

China is more civic nationalist than ethnosupremacist, and in their civic nationalism they are determined to achieve economic subjugation of the world rather than the globalist national self-hatred promoted as state ideology in the US and EU.

Again, Chinese socialists are as nationalist and as fascist as the National Socialists of Germany were. Like the National Socialists and Bolshevik socialists, they are motivated by petty greed and are terribly unscrupulous and opportunistic, mainly grabbing at whatever is easy and nearby. They also develop outrageous and often absurd justifications for what they do. Remember that socialists are criminals who primarily want to steal, and so seek out whosoever might have wealth that they may procure as easily as possible. National Socialists believed Jews were both a lucrative resource and easy meat, and likewise considered them a potential threat. The communist Chinese feel the same way about Uighurs, and with similar results. So also the Bolsheviks in regards the Ukrainians. And so on.

Globalist national self-hatred is promoted by the Left fascists as state ideology in the US and EU. Once they did it in service to the Bolsheviks (as well as the National Socialists during their 1939-41 alliance; see the American Student Union during this period). Since 1990 they've been doing it in service to the CCP. The real problem is allowing Left fascists to infiltrate political and educational institutions and influence social and political policy in the West.


BTW is this the same "Bolshevik Empire" which was led mainly by Jews until an ethnic Georgian purged them all, and then was subsequently headed by a Ukrainian who reversed the genocidal deportations ordered by said Georgian, and then another Ukrainian headed the country for 18 years and let it stagnate? I'm getting a little skeptical about your grasp on history and ethnicity.

The Bolshevik Empire was led by a Russian, then a Georgian Russiaboo, then a Ukrainian Russiaboo, and then a Russian Russiaboo. Racist bigotry, anti-Semitism and above all bald-faced hypocrisy are staples of socialist regimes. Thus, for example, why Jews were welcomed into the Bolshevik Party and then in general exterminated after they had served their purpose. Thus why so many Jews sought to escape Russia in 1972, as part of the Aliyah program (and why so many Ukrainians pretended to be Jews so they could escape as well).

Unlike the Swiss, the average Tibetan still lived a medieval lifestyle before the CCP built roads and invested in the region's natural resources.

The Chinese communists built roads to get at the region's natural resources, not to help the Tibetans. They're extending their Belt and Road Network to Nepal for similar reasons.

Putin is of course correct regarding the Nazi presence in the Ukraine given the veneration of Stepan Bandera and other Nazis, the prevelence of Nazi symbology like swastikas and the Black Sun, and the CIA-installed current Ukrainian government's origins in Ukrainian Nazis the CIA helped escape after 1945 to use as tools against the USSR.

There are most certainly groups who are sympathetic to the National Socialists in the region, such as the Azov Battalion. Some of them are in Russia and are Putin supporters. It is a bit rich to have an ex-member of the Bolsheviks accusing the Ukrainians in general and Stepan Bandera in particular of being collaborators with the National Socialists, as it was a Bolshevik alliance with their National Socialist comrades in 1939 that got Bandera released from prison. Note that the Gestapo put him into Sachsenhausen concentration camp from 1941 to 1944.

The roots of Ukrainian collaboration with the Germans began in the First World War, and had much to do with the human treatment policies of Colonel Max Hoffmann's humane treatment of Imperial Russian PoWs. Lenin and Trotsky likewise enjoyed a friendly relationship with the German High Command at this time. This expected German decency, especially in the wake of a deliberate genocide of the Ukrainian people from 1932-34, mae the Wehrmacht extremely popular when it entered Bolshevik territories in 1941. Even the monstrous treatment meted out by the Einsatzgruppen during the war pale in comparison to the food confiscation teams who robbed, brutalized and murdered Ukrainians throughout the pre-war period. It was enough to convince many Ukrainians that the National Socialists were the lesser of two evils, and considering how awful the Stalinists were (by Khrushchev's own admission), they were likely right. Because of this, about a million Ukrainians fought in the Second World War on the side of the Germans. Later, per agreement and as part of Operation Keelhaul, these Ukrainians, their wives and children were turned over to the Bolsheviks by the Western allies and were then shot, often as they were being dragged from train cars.

If you wish to shame Americans for their cooperation with Left fascism, this is a better start.

Poland was never even part of the USSR and was an internationally recognized country after 1918.

Poland had been part of Russia, as had been Finland and the Baltic States. As with Tibet, they made legal claims of this sort base on bogus arguments. As with Tibet, the real reason was that they sought rich mining regions, agricultural land and strategic territory. In the case of Tibet they got two out of three. Note that this was only the "palm" of Mao's "Five Finger Policy" claims - to Nepal, Bhutan, Sikkim, Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh. China has since been the patron of the brutal Maobadi, which orchestrated a ruthless civil war from 1995-2006 and has since gained control of Nepal. Sikkim, Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh are territories recognized as part of India, and over which there are constant border tensions. The CCP has since funded a military-grade modern highway from Lhasa to Kathmandu in Nepal, which would be hypothetically necessary if, say, the PLA wanted to conduct substantial military operations into India. Bhutan is nervous.

Note also that, as communist China has become increasingly wealthier and their military more advanced, that they have discovered new claims to territory throughout the region, such as the Spratley region and the Senkaku Islands of Japan. In each case the objectives are the same - economic and strategic benefits for the CCP, usually through brutal suppression of the civil rights of the locals, often terrorizing common people and intimidating neighboring states to get whatever they want. It's an old socialist tradition.

The entire world (apparently barring Nepal, Bhutan, and 1910s era Mongolia) recognized Tibet as part of the Republic of China.

The entire European world barely respected the sovereignty of China until the early 20th century. Even then it was sketchy.

Tibetans were not disproportionately affected by the Great Leap Forward because the main impacts were in the most productive agricultural regions of China where grain was confiscated.

Polish Jews were not disproportionately affected compared to Russian Jews during the Holocaust. Polish Jews are still unhappy about their treatment, for some reason.

There were no intentional famines during Stalinism. There was government mismanagement that helped make a natural famine far worse and murder of class enemies, but the Soviet government never created a famine to kill people. Much of that myth was created by the CIA in the 1950s with the aid of Ukrainian Nazi collaborators.

There is overwhelming evidence of a deliberate famine in Ukraine orchestrated between 1932-34. The original work on what was called the Holodomor was by Robert Conquest in his Bitter Harvest, but was generally speculative and contained errors. For a more authoritative and detailed discussion based on Bolshevik record and personal accounts see Red Famine by Anne Applebaum.

And yes, I am familiar with the works of Douglas Tottle and Grover Furr.

I'm getting a little skeptical about your grasp of history and ethnicity. You seem to have some serious blind spots whenever socialist history is brought up, particularly when they involve atrocities and genocides.

The ChiComs won the civil war because the KMT was insanely corrupt, absolutely incompetent at military affairs which took until 1945 to be able to win actual battles against the Japanese.

Mao's armies defeated the KMT because they had a powerful patron in Stalin, who secured Manchuria at the end of the war and then turned it over to their Maoist client state. The heaviest armored vehicles the KMT had were obsolete Bolshevik T-26s, M3 Stuart light tanks and a few M4 Shermans, while the Maoists were receiving surplus captured Japanese equipment such as Chi-Ha tanks from their Stalinist patrons, and with factories in Manchuria were supplied with munitions and parts. Even so it took several years for the "People's Liberation Army" to gain the upper hand.

They were despised by vast swathes of the Chinese peasantry and were one step below the Japanese in terms of the damage they did to China--millions died as a result of their policies.

The Chinese communists were despised by vast swathes of the Chinese people. The KMT fought the Japanese invaders, while the Chinese communists under Mao cut deals with them, trading food for weapons which they stockpiled. The communists had a truce of sorts with the Japanese until very late in the war, when the KMT was already in the process of defeating them.

This is literally like how Snowball was treated in Animal Farm.
 
to be honest I've never had much of a reason to think about Tibet in my 27 years of life, however I was disgusted by the dali lama asking the young boy to suck his tongue so fuck em I guess?
 
Who the fuck cares about Tibet? I guarantee you most people can't even point the place out on a map.
 
Who the fuck cares about Tibet? I guarantee you most people can't even point the place out on a map.
I do vaguely remember those "Free Tibet" stickers on cars but I think I saw one several months ago on an old 90s beater. Probably the same kind of person who buys everything on Amazon that's made in China anyway, and then bitches on the internet about capitalism.

Same level of ignorance you expect from someone who unironically says "Free Palestine" who doesn't completely understand what the implications of that statement actually are. Then they proceed to scream about white people and Nazis and stuff.

It's all so tiresome.
 
Imo the commies took over Tibet for their own reasons and because they could and then used the theocracy there as a reason to justify it and to galvanize the poor in the province around them.

A lil bit like what probably happened when it came to the war on terror, 9/11 and all that jazz.
 
Tibet was a based rock resisting the sea of modernism and you can't convince me otherwise.
How can people here not like Tibet? It was a super based hyper-traditionalist society that banned modern technology, banned foreigners, and had the Dalai Lama tutored by literal Nazis
Tibet was the perfect society not tainted by the poisons of our modern world. I wish we could have that country back to the way it was.
 
This is a hard one.
I like China, but, what can be cooler than a backwards tyrannical slaver theocracy with warrior monks from DnD?
I mean come on, that sounds just metal.
Wish Mao and the Dalai Lama remained friends. Could have created a perfect society fr fr no cap
 
Deaths in Tibet or among Tibetans were not particularly extreme compared to other regions of China. The so-called "Tibetan genocide" uses faulty methodology to estimate the casualties. It was literally a survey passed among exiled Tibetans and Tibetan refugees saying "please list the names of the people you know who have been killed by the Chinese" and this caused a lot of duplication of names and bad guesswork. It's very likely some of the alleged victims actually just fled Tibet. Likely the total number of dead is perhaps 200-300K at most.
Chang, C'mon, give the propaganda a rest....
 
Tibet is a backwards shithole that only got attention because dumbass celebrities during the 90s claimed to be Buddhists. All of a sudden this sparsely populated backwater became the forefront of oppression. It appealed to vapid celebrities and soccer moms who wanted to feel special instead of being yet another Presbyterian. People stopped giving a fuck in the 2000s when soccer moms became wine moms and decided they wanted to go to India instead thanks to Eat, Pray, Love.

Whenever those sites claim massive kill counts, those are almost always bullshit. It’s all guesswork and then padding and rounding up afterwards. I’m sure the CCP did a lot of fucked up shit but I’m not shedding tears for Tibet. Those who do probably also shove gerbils up their ass like their poster boy, Richard Gere.
 
While on topic of Himalayan countries we should think of the others. Nepal needs to be just as free from all of the communists and nihilists just as much as Tibet and we need to free Sikkim from India as well.
 
Tibet was a shithole before the CCP, is a shithole now under the CCP, and will most likely remain a shithole after the CCP is long gone.

A better question is, why does whitey care so much about it?
 
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BTW is this the same "Bolshevik Empire" which was led mainly by Jews until an ethnic Georgian purged them all, and then was subsequently headed by a Ukrainian who reversed the genocidal deportations ordered by said Georgian, and then another Ukrainian headed the country for 18 years and let it stagnate? I'm getting a little skeptical about your grasp on history and ethnicity.
Uh, not a one of them was Ukrainian. Khrushchev - Russian Ukrainaboo. Brezhnev...his name tells you where his family is from, Brezhnevo, Kursk Oblast. Just because his Russian parents moved from bumfuck Russia to Ukraine for better opportunities doesn’t make him Ukrainian. Brezhnev himself said he was Russian.
 
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