Culture What’s Wrong With the ‘No Trans’ Dating Preference Debate - Another day, another mention of Kiwi Farms in news

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/neq9zx/whats-wrong-with-the-no-trans-dating-preference-debate

What’s Wrong With the ‘No Trans’ Dating Preference Debate
Everyone is entitled to their sexual preferences, but we should be able to talk about how societal values affect them.

Abigail Curlew

Feb 23 2018, 7:30pm



OK, let’s talk about “no trans” dating preferences, a recent fixation in sexual politics that often ends up in transphobic and abusive conversations.

Take, for example, a recent video by LGBTQ commentators Arielle Scarcella and Blaire White, which argued that lesbians were not transphobic if they were only attracted to cisgender women.

Trans feminists and YouTube personalities, such as Riley J. Dennis and Contrapoints, have been arguing for some time that a lack of sexual attraction to trans folks is, to some degree, shaped by societal prejudices and stereotypes. As a PhD student in sociology and a trans feminist, I am concerned how the debate has misrepresented trans critics and led to attacks on trans feminists and activists.

The attraction debate has been popping up on-and-off over the last few years, but seems to have been kicked off by a video posted by Dennis called “Your dating ‘preferences’ are discriminatory” which explored how social inequalities and oppression shape our attractiveness to marginalized peoples.

Dennis concludes in her video, “Because these dating preferences are ultimately harmful to people who don’t fit into your box of what a conventionally attractive person looks like, it makes people feel isolated, alone, and unwanted to hear that they are universally unattractive to people.” Dennis urges her viewers to critically reflect on the stereotypes that shape their preconceived attractions to others.

But Scarcella and White twisted the terms of this argument to read as an assault on the rights of lesbians and cis-women, an attack on the lesbian community by “SJW” authoritarians. This isn’t entirely surprising as Blaire White’s YouTube channel routinely resorts to offensive conservative arguments that belittle and misrepresent the feminist community.

Scarcella claims “being gay is transphobic.” But their hot take has a selective hearing problem: it cherry picks controversial lines from trans feminists and ignores the important context that frames the entire argument.

This video struck a nerve in far-right circles, which led to a harassment campaign against Riley carried out by an angry cyber-mob of thousands of users systematically downvoting her videos and sending her hurtful content, comments, and venomous response videos. For instance, her video mentioned above has two thousand likes and fifty thousand dislikes followed by an endless stream of abusive comments, many of them misgendering Riley.

Many of the critiques of Riley’s arguments alleged that her video accused cisgender folks of having sexual identities that were transphobic. Such an argument would understandably irritate a lot of people. Critics argued that Riley was attempting to coerce straight men and lesbian women into having sexual attractions to trans women.

Of course, this is not what Riley was arguing.

This debate has riled trans exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs), which has heightened the already intense transphobic harassment practiced over online spaces like YouTube and Twitter. TERFs, for those of you who don’t know, are radical feminists who accuse trans women of being “men in dresses” trying to infiltrate women’s spaces for god knows what reasons. Many of these TERFs already go out of their way to harass, intimidate, and dehumanize trans women, especially those women in publicly-facing positions. As any woman and feminist killjoy could likely tell you, gendered online abuse and harassment is not only highly prevalent and commonplace, but very damaging and traumatizing.

It is especially dangerous for trans women who speak out against transphobia and abuse. The last time I wrote an article about transphobia, I was featured on Kiwifarms (a troll website dedicated to abusing, harassing, and embarrassing transgender folks and those who suffer from mental health issues). A group of aggrieved trolls dug up my Internet history, misgendered me, threatened me, and lamented that me and people like me should not exist.

Scarcella and White argue that sexuality is defined entirely by biological factors, which implies that it is entirely static. They propose that sexuality and gender are not at all influenced by “society,” despite the commonly-accepted fact that homophobia and transphobia are culturally-motivated belief systems.

In her video, Riley asserts, “we know that sexual orientations are more innate than learned.” And she goes on to assert that the ways people talk about their dating preferences are most assuredly shaped by societal prejudice. For instance, when someone expresses disgust towards a trans woman that they mistook for a cis woman—that is transphobia. In fact, that is the very definition of transphobia; the irrational fear of transgender folks.

Many trans feminists, including myself, would argue that this sense of disgust isn’t a given in our predetermined sexual identities; it is a flexible frame of mind that can be changed through critical self-reflection. There are plenty of people, including heterosexual men and lesbian women, who might find themselves surprisingly attracted to a trans woman. That is very different than saying that if you’re not attracted to trans women you are transphobic.

Let me repeat: I am not saying that it is imperative to be attracted to trans women. I am arguing that your attraction is shaped by preconceived notions and stereotypes of transgender folks. So, no, I am not shaming you because of your sexual orientation. I am merely asking you to critically reflect on the factors that might shape your attractions.

For me, these arguments feel super reductive. Sexuality and gender are complicated identity categories that sit on a shifting identity continuum. The social scientific canon has an abundance of research on these topics, starting with the famous Kinsey scale that reveals the diversity and flux of sexual identities. For many sociologists such categories are culturally constructed and historically situated. This doesn’t mean that you have individual control or agency over your sexuality or gender, but that the meanings and perceptions that inform our sexuality and gender are relative to your culture and history. This also doesn’t mean there’s no biological influence, but how we interpret our biological impulses do not exist in a vacuum empty of ideological takes on the world.

Much of the work towards queer liberation in the past few decades have been literally engaged in re-shaping public perceptions of LGBTQ folks from a perceived medical and psychological illness to a legitimate, normal, and natural continuum of sexualities and genders.

Sexuality and gender aren’t simply something that comes from some biological imperative. They are phenomena that are developed through a messy brew of social, cultural, historical, and psychological factors. They can also prove to be lightly malleable if we try to dig into the foundations of how those oppressive structures influence the ways we see and understand the world.

It is essential that YouTube personalities like Scarcella and White who are engaging in sexual and gender politics critically interrogate the nasty effects of their reach and influence. They might get thousands of views, but there are trans women who need to deal with the fallout of their wide breadth of influence. We get shit on enough as it is, and we don’t need our arguments grossly misinterpreted so that you can make a few dollars on advertising.

Follow Abigail on Twitter.
They can't keep getting away with this!
 
^You see uglies getting together all the time. It's just some trannys overestimate how attractive they are(as in they go after guys who have shit ton of options) or they don't even tell men they are trans and they end up getting ghosted when they do find out.
 
if you're an attractive transsexual, you will find people who are interested in having sex with you. especially if you're a trans woman who likes men, since most chasers are straight (or 'straight') dudes. i'm sure there are lots of men who would happily bed gigi gorgeous:
220px-Gigi_Gorgeous_at_TDoV_SF_20170331-3420_%28cropped%29.jpg

the problem with most troons who did not start out as effeminate homosexuals is that they were ugly men who became uglier women
 
https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/neq9zx/whats-wrong-with-the-no-trans-dating-preference-debate

This video struck a nerve in far-right circles, which led to a harassment campaign against Riley carried out by an angry cyber-mob of thousands of users systematically downvoting her videos and sending her hurtful content, comments, and venomous response videos. For instance, her video mentioned above has two thousand likes and fifty thousand dislikes followed by an endless stream of abusive comments, many of them misgendering Riley.

So downvoting a video now counts as a 'harassment campaign'?
 
I want to see this argument gain serious ground so that I can see them tear their hair out when nice guys point out that by the same argument women can change the kind of men they're attracted to through self-analysis and give the lonely betas the love they are entitled to.

Or if this argument goes to conversion therapy from the religious or that dead person on how veganism cured her cancer and lesbianism.
 
. So, no, I am not shaming you because of your sexual orientation. I am merely asking you to critically reflect on the factors that might shape your attractions.
"I'm not shaming you for not wanting to sleep with me. I just want you to sit down and think about why you won't sleep with me."
No means no douchebag.
 
if you're an attractive transsexual, you will find people who are interested in having sex with you. especially if you're a trans woman who likes men, since most chasers are straight (or 'straight') dudes. i'm sure there are lots of men who would happily bed gigi gorgeous:
220px-Gigi_Gorgeous_at_TDoV_SF_20170331-3420_%28cropped%29.jpg

the problem with most troons who did not start out as effeminate homosexuals is that they were ugly men who became uglier women

Greg has a girlfriend. After transition he realized that he was bisexual but in true troon fashion calls himself a lesbian now.

There is also a difference between transitioned gay and straight men. Gay men attempt to pass and take care of their looks while straight autogynephiles and transtrenders look like CWC or spergs at gdq. There are exceptions of course but the pattern is clearly noticable.

For example Brianna Wu and Sophie La Belle. Both are gay men who look hideous. On the other hand one of these is a straight man and the other is his wife:
son-noviosson-hombre-y-mujer-pero-ambos-lucen-como-chicas-adivina-quien-es-el-6.jpg

Bisexuals are in the middle. Some pass, some don't. But no matter if bi, gay or straight - the entitlement to other peoples bodies grows in the troon community. Not to mention all the female troons who are obsessed with gay men and are angry because said gay men only want dick.
 
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Lesbians, then: You're bad for not taking the dick!

Lesbians, now: You're bad for not taking the dick!

Even though some of them are screeching harpies, I do feel bad for them. They had, what, like one decade of people not yelling at them..?
 
" a video posted by Dennis called “Your dating ‘preferences’ are discriminatory” which explored how social inequalities and oppression shape our attractiveness to marginalized peoples"

Oh is that what it did? When I watched it I heard rev Riley say that " you can unlearn your sexual prejudices" , implying conversion therapy works, something this dishonest article completely left out.

Being trans reduces your dating pool. It's an inherent issue, always will be. Instead of trying to shame people into putting out, they could spend time developing resources for trans people to cope with the difficulty of finding partners.

It's amazing how all of these people had breakdowns not just over Trump but because Pence supports conversion therapy. Yet at the same time they support it by insisting that lesbians should accept girlcock like it's the same thing as being with a real woman. I mean it's not like "rape her straight" and "all she needs is the right dick" ever caused any suffering, right?

misgendering Riley

You mean like this article which keeps mistakenly calling Riley "she"?
 
^You see uglies getting together all the time. It's just some trannys overestimate how attractive they are(as in they go after guys who have shit ton of options) or they don't even tell men they are trans and they end up getting ghosted when they do find out.
If ugly guys were willing to just fuck men to get laid the world would be a massive gay orgy. Being desperate doesn't change one's sexual orientation.
 
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