When it it "suicide" - little dark but lets travel this road

1864897514651 said:
Hell no. We are not doing this crap again. Do we seriously not remember less than a hundred years ago when we first blurred the lines between free will and moral obligation? The bastard fucking Nazi Party used this propaganda to murder AT LEAST 100,000 human beings with Aktion T4. Including at least 5,000 children. LIVING CHILDREN.
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Your numbers suck. Learn to math.
 
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I remember years ago reading a case of euthanasia due to mental health problems, tried to google it and it turns out this is increasingly common:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...rp-increase-in-people-choosing-euthanasia-du/

Whereas just two people had themselves euthanised in the country in 2010 due to an "insufferable" mental illness, 56 people did so [in 2015], a trend which sparked concern among ethicists .

In one controversial case, a sexual abuse victim in her 20s was allowed to go ahead with the procedure as she was suffering from "incurable" PTSD, according to the Dutch Euthanasia Commission.
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Recent Raven said:
I remember years ago reading a case of euthanasia due to mental health problems, tried to google it and it turns out this is increasingly common:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...rp-increase-in-people-choosing-euthanasia-du/
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It's hard not to be incredibly leery of decisions like this. It's still easy to imagine circumstances where mental illness, by itself, could be worse than death. Imagine you have refractory, untreatable schizophrenia with hallucinatory content that means every waking moment of your life is a pure horror movie of fear and agony. You have a moment of lucidity and a gun. I could easily see a decision to check out as entirely rational.
 
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I've never understood why it is selfish to take your own life. I don't remember having the consciousness to ask to be born. In fact I don't remember much of my life until maybe age five.

Yes I have a plan, had it since I was a teenager, but I'm still alive and have passed the 27 club...I'd find it more intersting for the people who have a plan in what it is.
 
Consider civilization as a living organism and humans as its cells.
Apoptosis or "cellular suicide" is a normal, programmed process of cellular self-destruction in our bodies. Even though it involves cell death, apoptosis serves a healthy and protective role in a living organism.
The cell dies, the body lives on.

to;dr people who kill themselves knew they were shit and useless to society as a whole.
 
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AnOminous said:
It's still easy to imagine circumstances where mental illness, by itself, could be worse than death. Imagine you have refractory, untreatable schizophrenia with hallucinatory content that means every waking moment of your life is a pure horror movie of fear and agony. You have a moment of lucidity and a gun. I could easily see a decision to check out as entirely rational.
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Had a family member that lived this exact scenario. It was sad, he was only 17, but he had lived almost all his life like this talking to people that weren't there. It sucked, couldn't find a treatment that worked for long.

Now that I'm older I understand why he did it.
 
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Nekromantik said:
Had a family member that lived this exact scenario. It was sad, he was only 17, but he had lived almost all his life like this talking to people that weren't there. It sucked, couldn't find a treatment that worked for long.

Now that I'm older I understand why he did it.
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Or maybe the people he saw were real and part of an invasion force from a parallel universe. He was our last, best hope and he was murdered.

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1864897514651 said:
Hospice is a corporal work of Mercy. I am not sure what you meant unless you believe that hospice should eventually end at the 'pulling of the plug' at a certain point in time. Hospice is corporal care given to those who cannot care for themselves, until they die of natural causes.

Gerhard Kretschmar was a 6 month-old infant that was murdered upon the request of his parents to provide a 'mercy killing' for their son. This was done on July 25th, 1939.

Euthanasia is not a 'new can of worms' that is separate from suicide. Suicide is simply choosing to reject and discard your God-given life. It does not matter how this occurs. Suicide is, essentially, automurder, and whether you choose to go through the actions yourself by shooting yourself, or if you scandalize a physician into murdering you with a lethal injection of chemicals—the root cause is the same. You have murdered yourself.

This is not an argument like saying that homosexuality eventually devolves into wanting to sodomize telephone poles—although, I would not put it past sodomites to attempt such degeneracy. This argument rests primarily on the Commandment of our Lord to love our neighbors as ourselves, and latterly, the Fifth Commandment. If we do not love ourselves enough to preserve our own lives, then why should our enemies care about our lives? The 'right to death' is not a respect to life, but rather a rejection to life. If you allow men to scandalize physicians into murdering them, then you eventually give the power to respect life to physicians rather than yourself.

And if the physicians do not respect life, then you end up with millions dead because nobody loves themselves. Suicide becomes not a choice, but an obligation. And that is just one fucked up aspect of the atrocious Nazi regime. So many other atrocities rise from the very depths of Hell, like parents believing that they can provide 'mercy killings' for their children. I have shown you the historical precedent for what I am explaining here.

Anyway, abortion is an eerie parallel with many more victims than the Nazi regime's euthanasia. I think abortion is just a precursor to what we will see in the future in regards to the fact that we live in entire nations of men that just do not love themselves. I think we will see what happened with Aktion T4, but worse, and with tens of millions of victims.
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Ok, sorry I may have worded myself poorly but in regards to opting in hospice, clearly no matter this mortal shell dies one way or at one time.

Let's say you have super turbo cancer, you could get chemo and have say just for sake of ease 1% chance of making it or go to hospice, is that suicide.

I do enjoy your posts even though I can't say I agree with a lot you write :drink:
 
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I am pro-choice on abortion and the MAID (Medical Assistance In Dying aka assisted suicide aka euthanasia) activists like to say MAID and abortion/birth control are all the same issue based on bodily autonomy but I'm not so sure. We have MAID in Canada now yet we also have a shortage of palliative care specialists, not nearly enough residential hospices and access to hospice care in home- a patchy less than ideal system in general for end of life care. If someone is dying and in severe pain, is it really an autonomous choice if they don't have the option to live with proper pain management? We're forcing people to live in pain so much that they want to die.

In Europe they kill too many people for treatable reasons like mental illness. In an ideal world with proper social supports and equal healthcare access to choose freely between life and death with no financial pressure either way I can see the point of letting terminally ill people kill themselves. MAID on the other hand for the mental ill and disabled is too dangerous for both vulnerable groups. Disability rights activists like Not Dead Yet make good arguments from a non-religious view if you want to learn about progressive reasons why people oppose MAID.

http://notdeadyet.org/assisted-suicide-talking-points

https://www.theirisproject.net/uplo...rogressive_case_against_pas_by_dredf_1_15.pdf

There have been instances where health insurance companies deny treatment but approve assisted suicide drugs in the US:

https://nypost.com/2016/10/24/termi...ent-coverage-but-gets-suicide-drugs-approved/
 
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My take on it is, it's your life. You shouldn't be forced to live it for other people.
It's harsh on those you leave behind and it's not a decision to take lightly at all given that it's permanent and has a long lasting, possibly devastating effect on people around you, but the idea that it's "selfish" to commit suicide is silly. It's exactly as selfish to demand someone doesn't commit suicide. Forcing someone to stay alive because it hurts your feelings if they die is very self-centred.

I think anyone, even healthy people, should be allowed to suicide if they want to, but the problem is making sure they're doing it for the right reasons. I feel like people should at least have tried to sort out whatever is wrong in their lives before they pull the pin, but it's really hard to police that. There's a huge subjective element too, because someone quite stoic might be able to endure a lot of hardship that would utterly break someone else.
 
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It's selfish if you have children (even grown ones) and you aren't terminally ill. The moment you have kids the option is off the table, it doesn't matter if you wanted them or not because they didn't ask to be born and you aren't replaceable in their lives. Other than that, you can do whatever you want with your life, including ending it. I was rather peeved at someone I knew who an heroed, never sought treatment for depression beforehand, even at the urging of many people. I realized that it was selfish of me to expect anyone to live because I wanted them to. I still think their choice was stupid, but it was theirs to make. RIP you fuckin dumbass.
 
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There's not really an excuse in most circumstances that modern therapy won't fix, (depression, schizophrenia etc).

For those who actively follow the treatment program it actually works, and for those that it "failed to work on", the majority of them are lying as people with mental illness are notorious for being non compliant with medication. It comes up in tox screens all the time, yet they think we never notice.

However for the extremely small minority that have no way out and their condition and cannot be treated or fixed then yes it is OK. However those people are few and far between even in the mental health community, and in most cases cannot be stopped from committing suicide anyways as they will simply do it regardless of what others think.
 
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