Where Did the Climate Change Debate Go Wrong?

[Assorted Nuts]

So one of the biggest sticking points for the right, particularly in America, is the insistence that climate change is a conspiracy made up by liberals to control the population and not a serious issue. So really, how did this happen? Shouldn't humanity be working together to stop a problem that could destroy us all?

Honestly, at least in part, I have to blame Al Gore. Having the face of global warming be a rather disliked politician from an extremely controversial presidential administration was a bad, bad move. It made the environment into even more of a political issue than it already was, not helped by Gore allegedly being a disgusting hypocrite.

 

[JU 199]

Its a really complicated issue that gets communicated poorly. If we really wanted to do something about it we'd have to alter the way we live. That's a big ask, especially when life can be consuming enough anyway. It doesn't help that it doesn't look like an immediate problem, so it gets sidelined. Ultimately it's easier to pretend it isn't a problem. I'm not saying its that way for everyone but its most of it.

 

[Stereotypical Badger]

"Climate Change" is both a new-age religion that has replaced the role of Christianity for atheist lefties and a giant extortion racket to screw money out of western nations and funnel it into various international organisations. With a bit of luck Trump's administration will be the final nail in the coffin for this insidious fraud.

Shouldn't humanity be working together to stop a problem that could destroy us all?

There's that word you always see whenever this subject comes up "could"... Super intelligent aliens could invade the earth and enslave humanity, a giant asteroid could smash into the planet and kill us all, I could win a million dollars in the lottery tonight. All perfectly true statements and all far more likely occurrences than humanity getting destroyed because our comfortable modern lifestyle "broke" the climate.

It doesn't help that it doesn't look like an immediate problem

Just take that line of reasoning a little bit further: It's not a problem right now and... it never will be. It's a lie. You've been lied to.

 

[JU 199]

All perfectly true statements and all far more likely occurrences than humanity getting destroyed because our comfortable modern lifestyle "broke" the climate.

Its a possibility. The earth is a delicate system, if we push the variables around without knowing the consequences we could get unexpected results. For example certain foods require specific climates to be grown optimally in. Even pushing the earth's temperature up a few degrees could dump enough ice water into the ocean alter the jet stream. Suddenly it's harder the grow food because the climate isn't predictable anymore.

 

[Assorted Nuts]

Its a possibility. The earth is a delicate system, if we push the variables around without knowing the consequences we could get unexpected results. For example certain foods require specific climates to be grown optimally in. Even pushing the earth's temperature up a few degrees could dump enough ice water into the ocean alter the jet stream. Suddenly it's harder the grow food because the climate isn't predictable anymore.

Gotta agree. I really wouldn't be surprised if the apocalyptic predictions of climate change are exaggerated, but the ecosystem can very delicate I don't want to risk fucking it up.

 

[Absolutego]

I think Climate Change is a really important issue that suffers from terrible PR representation. To put it short, the proponents of climate change legislation often focus on individual carbon footprint reduction, which fails to resonate with Americans for the same reason Jimmy Carter telling everyone to put on a sweater during the oil crisis did. I also think a lot of more educated or politically inclined people who consider Climate Change a conspiracy do so in part because the environmentalists who keep screaming alarm about Climate Change reject the most immediately viable means of getting us off oil - Nuclear power.

And speaking about alarm, the apocalyptic predictions in the very near future are only contributing to people getting turned off the issue. I recall New York was supposed to be underwater by now if we didn't do something in 2004.

 

[JU 199]

Yeah, the Apocalypse-level reeeeeeeeeing isn't helping.

I think the way is framed is wrong. Less emphasis on cute animals and saving the earth. The earth would be fine regardless, its about maintaining our place on it.

 

[millais]

I think people get disenchanted with the effort to halt climate change when they see those pie graphs showing Chinese and Indian greenhouse gas emissions far outstripping those of the Western world. Because then it looks like even if the Western world cuts their emissions to zero, we're still fucked because the developing world won't reciprocate. Adopting that fatalistic mindset, it is easy to think that if we're fucked no matter what, there's no point in hamstringing our economies while the developing world gets to go balls to the walls with their unrestricted pace of growth.

 

[Ti-99/4A]

I think people get disenchanted with the effort to halt climate change when they see those pie graphs showing Chinese and Indian greenhouse gas emissions far outstripping those of the Western world.

And they give those nations a free pass because they're still "developing". If that were the case, then why aren't environmentalists over there trying to get them developed using cleaner and more efficient energy sources?

 

[Assorted Nuts]

And they give those nations a free pass because they're still "developing". If that were the case, then why aren't environmentalists over there trying to get them developed using cleaner and more efficient energy sources?

I think that has to do with the bizarre west-centric view the left had taken. It's the same as asking why feminists bitch about America while the Middle East is still a shithole.

 

[King_Scrotus]

Its a possibility. The earth is a delicate system, if we push the variables around without knowing the consequences we could get unexpected results. For example certain foods require specific climates to be grown optimally in. Even pushing the earth's temperature up a few degrees could dump enough ice water into the ocean alter the jet stream. Suddenly it's harder the grow food because the climate isn't predictable anymore.

Personally, I see it all as a part of natural order, even if it arises from unnatural circumstances. Humans take over, become an alpha-species, and bend the earth to their will. Then that fucks up the earth, ruining the delicate growth system that maintains our overpopulation, forcing thousands upon thousands of deaths, and checking that population, pulling it back into smaller numbers.

However, I don't believe that this will cause human extinction, as some think. Humans are too smart, I think we would be able to overcome such factors.

 

[Marvin]

I think that has to do with the bizarre west-centric view the left had taken. It's the same as asking why feminists bitch about America while the Middle East is still a shithole.

Well to be fair, it's reasonable to have higher standards for where you live right now. For example, free speech is an important issue to me and if it's being violated, someone telling me "well, you oughta see how bad the chinese have it!" doesn't really placate me.

(In reference to feminists and the middle east, of course. Not global warming.)

 

[HG 400]

Climate change isn't real.

 

[King_Scrotus]

Also, to amend my other post. I do admire the drive of people like Elon Musk, who does things like this just to further human society.
https://www.engadget.com/2016/11/22/tesla-runs-island-on-solar-power/

One of my biggest hopes is that his attempt to colonize mars succeeds, it's one of my biggest hopes for humans to grow past the need for one planet.

 

[Joan Nyan]

When the "scientists" started "correcting" past temperature readings downward to create a fake warming trend.

 

[ICametoLurk]

People still wanna use cars for some reason.

I think the way is framed is wrong. Less emphasis on cute animals and saving the earth. The earth would be fine regardless, its about maintaining our place on it.

I'm required to post this lol

 

[Oh Long Johnson]

Now, I'm a lefty and always have been. I'm not a fucking stupid hippy, though, so when I read things about the warming trend stalling for a decade or how the entire solar system has been warming, yet see basically nothing aside from quiet press releases about these things and absolutely no recognition of these phenomena from the usual suspects, I start to get suspicious.

I can accept the warming trend that has become orthodoxy. I can accept co2 levels contribute and may be driving said warming, especially after the ozone issue and its resolution. My biggest issue is my familiarity with data modelling and the vast amount of guesswork and blatant errors that occur in all areas of data modelling. I have yet to meet the "scientist" who does not have 100% confidence in their model. Regardless of the lack of robust historical data, the modeler is invariably convinced of their project's predictive power. You see this confidence crushed endlessly, in retail, in insurance, in banking, in marketing and in fucking sports. There is a fine, fine line between a confident data modeler and a smug degenerate gambler who believes in his system.

So, I guess what I'm getting at here is that I have seen the warming trend's stalling get treated as something so inconvenient as to be treated as blasphemy and I haven't heard of anyone say boo about incorporating increased solar output of the past who the fuck knows timeframe into the holy models. And that worries me. It remains a fact that nearly every gifted math postgrad is snapped up by Wall St. and the hedge funds, leaving lesser minds to work out modelling the heat retention dynamics of a 6 kajillion ton ball of rock, water and nig.gers. Are these lesser lights of the math/science world taking everything into account regardless of funding pressures or are these people idiots like the marketers and more likely to guide industry into initiating another period of glaciation?

I wasn't all that concerned with all of this until Thanksgiving and seeing my brother for the first time in years. His aptitude with math has always dwarfed my own and when the subject came up and I mentioned most of the stuff above, he told me I'm not nearly skeptical enough.

 

[ZeCommissar]

Fuck that shit fam, lets just fuck up the Earth till we causes irreversible damage and millions of people die.

It's something interesting for the history books.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

So one of the biggest sticking points for the right, particularly in America, is the insistence that climate change is a conspiracy made up by liberals to control the population and not a serious issue. So really, how did this happen? Shouldn't humanity be working together to stop a problem that could destroy us all?

Honestly, at least in part, I have to blame Al Gore. Having the face of global warming be a rather disliked politician from an extremely controversial presidential administration was a bad, bad move. It made the environment into even more of a political issue than it already was, not helped by Gore allegedly being a disgusting hypocrite.

Where Did the Climate Change Debate Go Wrong?

Al Gore

 

[Unseemly and Feral]

The thing about climate change to me is that it just isn't a very sexy political issue. When we talk about things like healthcare or immigration or the economy, these things are all pretty tangible. You can realize when you're short on money and basic necessities, you can see and interact with any issue related to people. But climate change is just a bunch of data and charts saying what will happen at some future point. Even if it's 100% true, I don't think it has the same kind of mental impact as the problems of the here and now. In addition to that, those other issues have more tangible enemies. You can spend money, you can make friends with or fight people, and you can feel well off or poor. But climate change just isn't tangible enough.