Why do peeps want socialism/communism? - Zoomer Delusions

[Thiletonomics]

Does people wanting those have any thing to do with how charismatic some of those leaders were? As in Castro, Chavez, Mao, Tito, Stalin, the Kims, etc?

 

[Sperghetti]

The last piece of the puzzle is millenial/zoomer education. Millenials and Zoomers have come into contact with activities that used to be dilettante pleasures for the elite, particularly philosophy, and want to live their lives off it instead of having a shitty unfulfilling job. Having an university degree isn't a privilege anymore, and not having one is a disgrace. What this means is that we have a surplus of people that envisioned their lives as part of the elite, but have to cope with the fact that they will have to spend the rest of their lives working an alienating job. Take that, the current crisis, and you'll see how it is no surprise for communism to become popular.

This is my theory exactly.

A lot of people under 40 bought into this idea that if they got a college degree in anything, they'd be set for life career-wise, and boring menial jobs were for people who didn't bother with an education. Unfortunately, when they got out in the world, they were confronted with the fact that not only were college degrees nothing special anymore, there weren't really any jobs that would pay a decent wage right off the bat. (Which is what they expected.) Thus, we get a whole bunch of young adults who are over-educated and bitter about the fact that they aren't immediately making an upper-middle-class wage and able to afford a house and regular vacations like they thought they would be.

Instead of thinking about the intricacies of why this was the case (too many people getting degrees, too easy to get college loans, manufacturing jobs being outsourced leaving only service jobs, etc.), a lot of them just decided to blame capitalism in general for the fact that they had to work some boring job they didn't love in order to afford rent and groceries. IMO, the main reason they support socialism and communism is not because they really understand the logistics of either, but because they're not capitalism, which is what they blame for their frustration with their adult lives.

Note how common it is for these people to beg on Patreon and such for money to "support" them drawing, filming themselves, or pursuing other artistic endeavors. They don't do this stuff simply because they love it, nor are most of them attempting to build a portfolio or gain recognition to get a real job. They just believe that other people ought to give them money so they can spend their time doing a hobby, because that was their initial life plan all along.

 

[Idiotron]

That depends on what socialist ideas they support.
For example, when people say that they're Christians, they usually don't mean that they condone the parts when Jesus tells slaves how to behave themselves in relation to their masters.

Think about this:
Public roads are socialist. The government takes money fro all of us and then redistributes it in the form of roads which we can all use for free.
Imagine if corporations owned the roads and you had to buy monthly passes to use them, different passes for different roads owned by different companies. It would be a nightmare, no working class person could afford them.
Public roads need to be a thing for a modern society to function.
Tax funded police and firefighters are also socialist.

You need to ask further questions when someone say that they're socialist.

 

[Mrs Paul]

Does people wanting those have any thing to do with how charismatic some of those leaders were? As in Castro, Chavez, Mao, Tito, Stalin, the Kims, etc?

That's true with any totalitarian system, left or right.

 

[El Sátiro Sordo]

That's true with any totalitarian system, left or right.

Yep. South America is a good example. If you study the history of this place it will become obvious that ideology never mattered.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

Asking why people support socialism is a bit like asking why people in past centuries went searching for the Fountain of Youth. The answer is very straightforward: the idea that workers should own the means of production is clearly an attractive idea, just as never aging is an attractive idea. That past attempts to reach such goals have failed doesn't make the goals themselves any less attractive.

 

[Aidan]

Asking why people support socialism is a bit like asking why people in past centuries went searching for the Fountain of Youth. The answer is very straightforward: the idea that workers should own the means of production is clearly an attractive idea, just as never aging is an attractive idea. That past attempts to reach such goals have failed doesn't make the goals themselves any less attractive.

Do you think back in the day people were meeting up in an actual forum and asking why peeps actually search for a fountain of youth?

 

[queerape]

Wealth inequality is an actual problem that keeps people from progressing in life so they become frustrated. There are ways to balance things out to give Joe Q Public a chance at a decent life with livable wages that aren’t full on communism though. The US did just fine with it for most of the 20th century.

 

[c-no]

I think SOME people (at least younger ones) when they think of "socialism" don't really associate it with communism or Marxism. They hear the word, and think of it more of like, social security, Medicare/Medicaid, and various government programs to help those in need. I think that's what people mean by "social democracy/democratic socialism". They're not actual "socialist-socialists", just ignorant.
OR, it could be just a case of language evolving. That happens too. Like the word "liberal", for example. What people called "liberals" in the past we now call "libertarians". Maybe that's what it is? I'm guessing someone who studied linguistics would know better.

As for those who call themselves communists, they're fucking idiots, plus many of them didn't grow up during the Cold War -- to them it's an event that happened "Ago", and you had the whole Red Scare bullshit, McCarthyism, etc. Nowadays, most communist countries aren't really the BIG THREAT that the Soviets were. China's fucked up, but it's not the same. Also, Vietnam had a lot to do with it as well -- let's face it our government DID fuck things up when it come to "fighting communism". We certainly weren't innocent, at least when it came to foreign policy. (And this isn't a "liberal vs. conservative", since both sides were doing it)
But for the most part, once again, it's ignorance. And they haven't actually LIVED in a communist country, or known anyone who has.

And for those who do know all of this, but still consider themselves socialists and/or communists? Well, there are neo-Nazis around, what's so weird about neo-commies? People are assholes.

(BTW, anyone here actually read Marx? Dude was a total crackpot, but as one of my professors said, his solution was fucked up, but he did indentify the problem correctly, at least for that particular time period)

I had to read Marx as an entire subject for a whole semester to graduate. I can't even say much about him other than I could get what his beef was back then because of how Bongland was and how we didn't have shit like workers comp and OSHA compliances and the like for workers. That said aside from reading the Manifesto, everything else felt like a slog like other books because I just wanted to get to the point. I can only imagine that he'd be spinning in his grave simply in seeing what his ideology managed to evolve into and with seeing how it all played out, down to tankies thinking the USSR did no wrong and anything the USSR did is either justified or a complete gay op from the CIA.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

Do you think back in the day people were meeting up in an actual forum and asking why peeps actually search for a fountain of youth?

I don't know, but the point here is that the goal of finding a Fountain of Youth was clearly very attractive to the people who pursued it, which is why they did, no matter how many times prior attempts had failed, nor how unrealistic it may seem in retrospect. Apply the same logic to socialism, and you will understand why the idea is still compelling to a lot of people.

 

[BOONES]

They don't, they're brainwashed. They're puppets of the common regime. Or "Useful Idiots" as Yuri Bezminov calls them.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Self congratulatory circle jerking aside. The current system is reliant on being barely tolerable to just enough people as to not degenerate into a total shit show as the only other economic model which isnt total gibberish in town it's the logical go to when you notice how bad things are. Maybe it's a statement about our limitations as a species that we can't do better than this nightmare.

 

[Tismguide]

They don't, they're brainwashed. They're puppets of the common regime. Or "Useful Idiots" as Yuri Bezminov calls them.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

That depends on what socialist ideas they support.
For example, when people say that they're Christians, they usually don't mean that they condone the parts when Jesus tells slaves how to behave themselves in relation to their masters.

Think about this:
Public roads are socialist. The government takes money fro all of us and then redistributes it in the form of roads which we can all use for free.
Imagine if corporations owned the roads and you had to buy monthly passes to use them, different passes for different roads owned by different companies. It would be a nightmare, no working class person could afford them.
Public roads need to be a thing for a modern society to function.
Tax funded police and firefighters are also socialist.

You need to ask further questions when someone say that they're socialist.

"Socialism" isn't the same as "taxes for public things". It's primarily about wealth redistribution from the bourgeois to the proletariat.

 

[Gorefield]

Yep. South America is a good example. If you study the history of this place it will become obvious that ideology never mattered.

Juan Domingo Peron is the best example of this.

 

[Made In China]

Because American capitalists are absolutely retarded and borderline anarcho-capitalists and one of Newton's laws states that for every force there's an equal and opposite force.

 

[Syaoran Li]

Because American capitalists are absolutely retarded and borderline anarcho-capitalists and one of Newton's laws states that for every force there's an equal and opposite force.

The only people more retarded than American capitalists are Chinese communists, and the only ones who are more retarded than either one of them are Americans who simp for China and wish they were ChiComs.

Keep fellating the People's Republic of China all you want, but you'll still be up against the wall if your dream of a Chinese communist takeover comes true. Maybe you can be executed on the same wall as Bob Chipman and Jason Unruhe

 

[MAPK phosphatase]

A lot of people, including people in this thread, seem to misunderstand what socialism and communism is, as well as the philosophy of Marx that informed those systems.
The core of Marx's ideas is the dialectic. This is an extension of Hegel's Dialectics, in what I find to be an honestly pretty strange direction. To over-simplify, this an interpretation of the world through the lens of conflict between two opposed groups. For Marx those two opposed groups are the bourgeois, wealthy oppressors with the power, and the proletariat, poor oppressed without the power. The bourgeois create a world in which the proletariat are ignorant to their suffering. The proletariat don't actually know how bad they have it and must be woken up, or will eventually wake up on their own when it gets bad enough. This awakening leads the world "naturally" into socialism and then communism.
Social programs and safety nets like welfare and universal healthcare are not socialism or communism. They only serve to keep the proletariat ignorant to their suffering because it never gets so bad that they are forced to wake up and violently revolt against the bourgeois. Of course you have to remember that so long as capitalism exists, the proletariat exists and is suffering, no matter how much they think they are not. Actual socialism and communism is where the workers own the means of production and private property is abolished.

If you want to be caught up with the modern developments of the Marxian Dialectic, just draw the lines racially as well as economically. If you've been paying attention you should know where in this model to put white people and where to put black people.

Stability. Guaranteed work. Extremely strong government safety nets meaning if you get supremely fucked in life, you won't die in the streets. Here in the nordics we're halfway there, almost everyone are middle class, government guarantees you (shitty)housing and a livable amount of money so you don't starve, education is free. Homelessness is non-existent.

Nordic countries are
1.) Ethnically and culturally homogeneous. This results in a high-trust society where people are much less likely to take advantage of the system. Multiculturalism leads to a malaise that prevents high-trust communities from forming as easily.
2.) Free from the burden of a lot of military spending because the U.S. exists.
3.) Not socialist or communist. They run on The Nordic Model which is free market capitalism with a bunch of social programs and safety nets. The workers do not own the means of production. Private property still exists.

Education isn't free. Things paid for with taxes are only free if you never do anything that creates taxable economic value.

 

[Made In China]

It probably doesn't help that a lot of these people had to work in customer-facing jobs after the 2008 recession, where they had to deal with psychopathic conservative boomers and karens all the time. Nothing brings a bigger smile than knowing these boomers and karens are now in the process of watching everything they love burn to the ground.

 

[Mrs Paul]

I had to read Marx as an entire subject for a whole semester to graduate. I can't even say much about him other than I could get what his beef was back then because of how Bongland was and how we didn't have shit like workers comp and OSHA compliances and the like for workers. That said aside from reading the Manifesto, everything else felt like a slog like other books because I just wanted to get to the point. I can only imagine that he'd be spinning in his grave simply in seeing what his ideology managed to evolve into and with seeing how it all played out, down to tankies thinking the USSR did no wrong and anything the USSR did is either justified or a complete gay op from the CIA.

This was for a class in political philosophy, and we were warned in advance how tiring Marx would be to read. We also read Plato and Aristotle (duh), Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, John Locke, etc. The usual.

The funny thing is Marx did NOT believe his system would ever work in Russia. He was imagining it in Britian, or Germany. Russia was barely industrialized when he was coming up with his theories.

Of course, you have the idiots who think any concession to the working class is "Marxist", which is amusing. I mean, look at that raging commie who came up with the idea of government healthcare, Otto von Bismarck!

If you make people too miserable on one side or another, they end up revolting. And you had people like Lenin, or Mao taking advantage of that.


(Fascists usually take advantage of a weak system, generally, but it's all the same -- your life sucks)