Why do Veterans from Desert Storm and Iraq have so many difficulties readjusting?

[Solid Snek]

I guess maybe I'm biased because of my experiences with them. I know only a few vets personally. Two are in my family and both never got involved in any middle eastern conflict. They came back just fine and picked right back up from where they left before they enlisted. They barely spoke of their military service, and some of the stories my grandfather told me my father never even heard himself.
It was just a tiny, unremarkable part of their lives to them.

Back in the day when I was a dummy I used to browse /k/, (the 4chan military board) a lot.
There were all these former Iraq and Desert Storm guys being posted and they were making youtube channels, selling merch, writing books, and making fitness programs so (You) could too be a spook!
Sure they could just be taking advantage of a buisness niche they saw. But even as a kid it always struck me as they couldn't let go. They would make their military service the staple of their life. It felt like this was all they knew.
I guess that and my neighbor just let that stain my perception of all GWOT vets. I'm sure I've personally got to know some guys who I didn't even know served.

Yeah, I can't speak for everyone, only myself and the vets I've known, but in my experience the sort of guys who get into merch and fitness stuff are basically actors. Some of them are legit vets, of course, and they may genuinely know their stuff, but if they weren't standing in front of a camera trying to sell you shit or talking up their services in front of /k/ posters, they probably wouldn't be that gung-ho.

Hell, even in-service, most of the people I knew weren't that gung-ho; the novelty and exoticism of military life wears off quick, and most of the time you're just wishing you could go home, throw on some grandpa pants and a Metallica shirt, and sit on your ass playing Playstation all day.

Now, again, I'm not saying everyone's like that. My own experience was somewhere between F Troop and Office Space, so it's not necessarily reflective of the norm (and definitely not reflective of 11B norms). And I did know several Lifers who were totally highspeed and never wanted you to forget it - one of them was a military school brat, and ironically (or not) he was also one of the biggest whiners in our company. I felt kind of bad for him, because he aggravated a childhood sports' injury and got an EPTS discharge with less than a year in-service (basically, it's the shittiest thing that can happen if you're an emotionally-committed lifer). It's possible - maybe even probable - that he wound up like your neighbour when he got home.

But I'd venture to say it's definitely not common, and veterans who act that way around civilians are usually either selling you something, or they're bullshitters. If they act like that when the cameras are off and they're at home, then I'd seriously recommend hooking them up with some mental health services. It can be a touchy subject for vets, and almost nobody WANTS to go to the VA, but feeling like a bitch for a little while is better than wasting twenty years of your life doing drugs and picking fights with neighbours.

 

[Bad Gateway]

Yeah why would people who volunteer to be mentally broken for money have trouble reintegrating to a society, ONE OF WHICH we currently live in

 

[mr.moon1488]

Nothing is how you expect it to be when you get home

Spoiler: long post

That cute girl you were trying to impress now has a kid name Datonte (still single though woo hoo)

Your parents that were so proud of you now sit and drool in front of the TV watching family feud reruns, they might recall your name if you're lucky (lol don't question uncle Schlomo in front of them)

The army friends you thought were going to be your BFFS have all anheroed or are on heroin (they'll ask you for money, don't do it bro, you're helping neither them nor you)

No one gives a fuck that you've preserved their ability to mindlessly consoom, they just consoom

Oh yeah you didn't actually preserve their ability to consoom, you just killed shitskins

Lol think it's still a good thing you killed shitskins? Wait until you need a job goy, Marvel says you're the bad guy

You're not going to keep that fit body you had, and that 100+lbs gear you carried up a mountain is, or has already caught up to you

Lol you're 30 and have arthritis, if you act like you're hurting, people are going to give you weird looks

Oh wait, people give you weird looks anyway because you're 30 and can only relate to people twice your age

Ah shit, you're 30 and look 50, so that explains the last bit

Don't ever get in contact with the dude who convinced you to enlist. You may now emphasize with him, but he's going to be just as much of a broken mother fucker as you are, if he's not,
you're going to resent him even if he's a perfectly alright dude.

Even if you know all of it is bullshit, you're still going to hate yourself no matter what. Let's say you never killed anyone, you're going to always feel like you contributed nothing. Let's say you killed a ton of shitskins, you're still going to feel like a murderer. Yeah, it's complete horseshit both ways, but uncle Schlomo has his hooks fully into your psyche and you're never getting away from that.

> You're an imperialist
>You've never had a real job
These are two popular opinions of you that will haunt you until the end of the Earth

You'll never not feel slightly off from civilians. You're going to eat faster than them, you're going to take precautions that they don't, you're going to treat subordinates and superiors differently from them in the workplace

The things you did or didn't do while in are going to bother you, and I don't mean PTSD level shit. You were conditioned to dwell on all of your mistakes, and you're not just going to forget those mistakes

 

[Poppavalyim Andropoff]

In a nutshell this ..

 

[mindlessobserver]

Quite a few veterans I've run into don't know what to do with themselves once they are in civilian life and there is nobody there to tell them what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. You all know the type. The kind who always let you know they are ex service, always walking around in march step, and won't shut up about it. Its even harder for former officers and senior NCO's. That sudden loss of power along with the structure is hard to manage. One moment you are a big dick Sergeant Fist Class with the Privates trembling before you and the next moment you are a shift supervisor at burger king and your General Manager is 10 years younger then you and could give less of a shit what you did in the Army.

I was a one termer with a stint in the reserves myself. A part of me does miss it, but an even bigger part of me is glad I didn't stick with it and ended up like some of these guys I've run into.

 

[Boston Brand]

First, I would say we're leagues better than the Vietnam veterans... for one we actually know PTSD is a thing now, and try to treat it, albiwt clumsily.

There are a lot of reasons vets struggle when they come home.

As others point out, that loss of comradery is tangible... damn near everything else about military life may have sucked, but that brotherhood, its real, its forever, and you will never find that again as a civilian.

The biggest one is that Joe and Jane Civilian have zero clue about what you've been through, and really don't care. Hell, most of them forget we were at war after Obama got elected. America is not at war, the American military is at war, and that divide is becoming a big enough issue DOD considers it a national security threat.

The fact we have so little to show for 20 years of war hurts like hell.

WW2 and Korea sucked, but they could at least say that what they did mattered and made a difference. Hell, by this point after WW2, Germany was making better cars than us and Japan was on its way to becoming the world's second largest economy. Those vets dealt with the same shit - read the bios of vets like Audie Murphy and they have the same issues with trauma and PTSD today's vets do - but they came home as heroes and saw they made a difference, even if they drank thier troubles away at the VFW.

20 bloody years of the GWOT, troops in half a dozen countries, trillions spent, thousands dead, hundreds of thousands injured and traumatized... for what? A couple of broke, corrupt kleptocratic democracies that will collapse the instant we leave? Hell, if we actually pull out of Afghanistan, there are good odds the Taliban will take it over again. By this point, Germany was exporting Volkswagens, A-stan has people who still ritualisticly rape kids.

Meanwhile, the job market for vets is awful - a ton of stereotypes make employers wary of hiring veterans, and outside of government or security work, its actually recommended you don't put it on your resume.

We are still dogshit at handling PTSD, and more than just the combat troops have nasty cases of it. One of my cousins joined the Army, saw a guy blow his head off during basic training, understandably, that traumatized the shit out of him. Never saw combat, but had the nastiest case of PTSD when he got out I've ever seen... luckily lot of guys in our family are prior service (I was a jarhead myself) and we knew to get him help... he's okay albiet goes to a therapist twice a month, takes pills for depression, anxiety, etc. I'm proud of him... a lot of my friends didn't have that, didn't get help... and I know more than a few who joined the ranks of the 23 vets a day who off themselves. Every veteran does.

Joe and Jane public still think PTSD means you are one flashback away from shooting up a strip mall. The military civilian divide is a chasm - all the embed reporters went home in 2009, the combat deaths barely make the papers back home, and most civilians have forgotten we still have troops overseas. Best case, you might get a handshake and an empty "thabk you for your service".

Physically, military life is rough as hell on your body as well as your mind. Knee injuries, shoulder and muscle tears, arthritis by your late 20s, its hell on your body.

The VA and disability benefits are a joke. Don't know if you've ever been to a VA hospital, but imagine if the DMV ran a healthcare system. Hell, they have a higher vet body count than Afghanistan this past decade.

Oh, and those disability payments? A pittance. Losing your leg below the knee, for example, marks you as 40 percent disabled... 650 a month. For losing the ability to walk without crutches or prostetics. Hell, 100 percent disability is bately over 3k a month. Which sounds like alot until you realize just how much shit has to be wrong with you to get that percentage, you're probably unable to work most jobs, and you make less than poverty wages. Hell, Moviebob makes more of Patreon donations.

Toss in the fact that in an era of multiple deployments, increasing injuries and trauma, and the usual military life BS taking its toll, and damn near nobody serves the full 20 anymore to get those sweetheart retirement benefits.

So you have decades of war, nothing to show for it, a laundry list of mental and physical injuries that will plague you for the rest of your life, are dropped into a civilian world that does little to help you, and at times actively penalizes you...

All for a general public by and large who doesn't know, doesn't care, and will do anything they can to keep it that way. You got wrecked physically and mentally, your benfits and healthcare are a joke.

Frankly its a miracle more vets AREN'T a mess.

 

[Billy Beer]

Modern society doesn't help. Anyone who has served knows the brutal and necessary jokes, humour and banter needed to survive in shitty places.

Then you leave and find out that calling someone a cock sucker of homo can get you fired. You can't joke about with race cause it'll get you fired and don't even bother talking to the cum dumpster cause it'll get you fired.

Your civvy mates you used to have fun with are now brainwashed faggots who look down their nose at you for calling them a sissy, girlyman or poofter. They see you world view as nationalistic, ancient and racist (They didn't mind sending us to war to keep them protected though...)

So yeah, it's less to do with the conflict and more to do with the difference between the culture in the military and the culture out of it. Its sad as fuck what society has become tbh

 

[High Tea]

• Loss of the local bar especially Legion or similar organization. Guys don't really have a place to go to shoot the shit, think of something else for a few hours a day and hang out with people who understand what they went through.
• Not many people have family members or friends who were in the service so they can't empathize or sympathize with people who go through that or their families.
• Servicemen after Korea weren't celebrated as much because with each subsequent war there was a vocal portion of the population that was not only anti war, and while there have always been pacifists, this time they framed the servicemen as evil. The pacifists during WWI for instance focused on the leaders, not so much the individual soldiers.
• Cameras showing the horrors of war that were censored prior to Vietnam. War is hell, but the general public got an edited view of it. When it isn't, it may be more difficult for civilians to place themselves in the soldier's shoes.
• Heavy use of drugs to deal with the experience. Not sure if the stoic method was better, but there can be severe drug side effects.
• The military instead of going all out and trying to win, is more humanitarian. They have nothing to celebrate a win. It's drawn out wars with no real goal, the goals reached are usually lost, there is a question of if countries even appreciate the help they are getting. There is no reward except someone saying 'thank you for your service', which I've heard some vets find to be an uncomfortable interaction.