Why is communism so appealing to so many people? - Despite, you know, its proven to be a failed system.

[Reticulan Joe]

The emphasis on material causes can be a selling point for some. To put it in Moldbuggian argot; "Culture is downstream of material conditions." Material circumstances dictate the sorts of lives available to people and the economic choices they make. A somewhat debased form of this argument is used by liberals to justify certain crimes - "those poor people had no choice but to rob that liquor store!" but more rigorously it can be used as a weapon against identity politics.

For a worked example of this, consider slavery in the early US. Nikole Hannah-Jones and her friends would like to propagate the idea that Africans were enslaved by Europeans because of the deep, irrational and vicious hatred that racist whites naturally have for blacks. A materialist explanation says it's the other way around: slavery happened because it filled an economic need for manpower, and racism about black inferiority was a post-hoc rationalization on why it was acceptable to enslave Africans.

 

[Dyn]

Since this thread is back, can you go into more detail about the appeal of communism then? Doesn't Kim own make-up and beauty lines? Is the argument that such a vapid whore shouldn't have that much wealth or that no-one should have that much wealth? I type in "Elon Musk net worth" to google and it gives me a value almost 200 times larger.

I think Otterly's reply explains it pretty well. If you work a soulcrushing job in a fulfillment center or a walmart while people make more money than they're physically able to spend in twenty lifetimes, it's hard to say the system's working, and any promise to redistribute wealth more equitably is going to be very appealing.

Also, while I have you, what are some good modern attempts at communism, in your opinion?

I don't think there are any. I think communism works as a last-ditch answer to a completely failed state. When Marx originally proposed communism it wasn't as a serious framework that he thought we should implement, it was more of a scifi thought-exercise of how we might go about organising society after unchecked capitalism ruined it to the point that the majority of people simply couldn't suffer it any longer and were willing to risk their lives to tear down the system. When Marx published the manifesto he made it pretty clear that he thought communism was the inevitable end result for capitalist societies that did nothing to limit the excesses of capitalism or provide social security nets and improve worker's conditions, and I believe he was entirely correct in that.

I think the threat of communism is what backed every industrial relations victory that working people have had in the last century and a half, and without it we'd still be pulling 18-hour shifts with no time off, no safety regulations, no welfare net, and barely enough pay to keep from starving.

 

[BiggerChungus]

It's a deceptive ideology by design. If you were gullible and told that by following this system you'd never have to work, you'd get everything you ever needed for free, and the world would be a utopia, wouldn't you follow it? By the time you realize what it's actually about, it's too late.

 

[The handsome tard]

My previous reply apparently owned OP so hard that he deleted the entire thread so I told the jannies and had them undelete it because this is Kiwi Farms and on Kiwi Farms your shame follows you to the ends of the earth.

In my fair defense, I did it because I thought it did come off as a tad bias as you said yourself and was going to make a better version later on that came off as less "argumative" or "provocative". I agreed that it just didnt paint a good image so I wanted restructure the whole thing as to not send the wrong message and come off as low effort bait or something. I own up to it all and I apologize.

But eh, its back so might as well work with this then. Sorry for the inconvenience

 

[biglurker]

Aside from what has already been said:
Boomers marketed communism as allowing people to be lazy on your hard work. People just heard the "allows you to be lazy" part. If they learned more about it, they just tried elaborate ways to apply the "allows you to be lazy" part to themselves. "I'll just be a artist/party member/work whenever/etc"

There is also this sort of purposeful ignorance when it comes those who push socialism, communism, and welfare policies. Sure, evidence of communism failing exists, but you are assuming they are whiling to listen. These people only subscribe to approved information in their bubbles, and aggressively mock/disregard anything outside of it. You could force these people to listen to every horror story about communist regimes and they will gleefully ignore it. Then mock you for talking about it.

 

[Strix454]

I've always tended to see communism as an middle-class/upper-class sort of ideology. Based on its premises and internal view of itself, one would expect it to appeal to the people working at the bottom stocking shelves at walmart or working warehouse jobs at Amazon. But those people are always the exception than the rule. It always seems to have the most appeal to wealthier people who want to save the world or middle-class people looking for upward social mobility rather than the actual working classes.
The whole lack of proletarian interest in the movement is why for example Lenin invented his concept of "revolutionary vanguardism". It was somewhat an admission that the communist movement was not working class and didn't follow the predictions of Marx at all. That rather than a revolutionary movement from below, it would be a movement of middle-class intellectuals leading from above awaiting a moment (that would never come) where the proletarians would suddenly rise to leadership of the movement.

 

[Odd Opossum]

Because "I think people should be treated fairly and not have to destroy themselves working as slaves for the rich" is more appealing then "I hate the majority of the world's population and think they should die, and I guess we'll figure out how to make an actual functioning government once my lust for murder calms down" like a lot of right-wing people push for.

 

[Ultrapenguin]

Honestly when Kim Kardashian originally came up, I thought the point was "People like Kim Kardashian believe in communism, because they're so rich money doesn't mean anything to them and they don't understand why just giving everything away for free doesn't make any sense".

All this stuff about reflecting working class values would be cool and correct if the people who believed in communism were actually working class.


At least in the US, at this point the idea of communism seems completely detached from working class reforms; it's something idiot college students, the gleefully unemployed, and cosmopolitan city dwellers wear like a fashion statement and push for a variety of reasons unrelated to actually giving people fair pay.

In fact the rich folks and progressives probably like the idea because if everyone's livelihood is contingent on the government, that means the system has more control over your income and what you own and can more easily stomp out unpleasant lower-class sentiments and prevent the flow of money between private individuals and communities.

They're all for benefitting the poor, so long as they're helpless and agree with everything they say.

 

[gang weeder]

Because "I think people should be treated fairly and not have to destroy themselves working as slaves for the rich" is more appealing then "I hate the majority of the world's population and think they should die, and I guess we'll figure out how to make an actual functioning government once my lust for murder calms down" like a lot of right-wing people push for.

Found the commie lol.

 

[Odd Opossum]

Found the commie lol.

Nope.

 

[PipTheAlchemist]

It's not that hard to figure out dude.
View attachment 5066818

Well maybe if you had a giant jiggly booty ass that could shit like Kim Kardashian's, your bitch-ass wouldn't be complaining about being a wageslave corporatecuck poorfag.

 

[The handsome tard]

Well maybe if you had a giant jiggly booty ass that could shit like Kim Kardashian's, your bitch-ass wouldn't be complaining about being a wageslave corporatecuck poorfag.

So ass is the key to riches?
My God, we men have been seeing it all wrong, the transexuals have cracked the code ! It all makes sense NOW!

 

[melty]

I'll argue Communism can work in one very specific set of circumstances - small communes,

What's funny is these also usually fall apart in practice

 

[5t3n0g0ph3r]

What's funny is these also usually fall apart in practice

Like CHAZ's garden?

 

[FamicomGorby]

I think most young people feel that life should be fair, that makes sense to a teenager and it's the lie that communism starts with. In actuality that fairness they want is basically summed up with this old woody allen comic.






They want it because it promises a government that will provide everything for them, basically in their mind the equivalent to an eternal parental figure since going out on your own and being responsible can be a bit frightening to a teen. This is part of the reason most commies are dumbasses who have never had to work a day in their lives.

They don't get that all labor isn't equal, that the unskilled worker digging ditches is not equal to a doctor. Even the Soviet Union got that, just nowhere near enough, but it didn't really matter since everyone ended up valuing jobs based on how much it would allow you to steal/provide other people the opportunity to buy rare goods for payment.

 

[Whatevermancer]

Cause capitalism is gay.

 

[Kermit Jizz]

You type up all this bs like the average person has the faintest ide how anything works. Most Americans don't know the difference between democracy and a representative republic. Most Americans, and commies for that matter, don't know what capitalism is nor the particular flavor they live under.

It's that simple, they don't understand shit. They don't actually support communism because they don't even know what it is. They just heard they'd get free shit so they clap.

 

[Da Grim Reaper]

Why are "-isms" in general so appealing to people? All of those thoughts are imports from foreign civilizations, and most if not all of them do not translate well to some countries due to material and historical conditions.

 

[YourFriendlyLurker 2.0]

Because none of the twatter tankies has tried to live under actual communism, just like their retarded twin brothers from another end of the spectrum have never tried to live under actual fashism.

 

[RurkerHivemind]

Aside from what has already been said:
Boomers marketed communism as allowing people to be lazy on your hard work. People just heard the "allows you to be lazy" part. If they learned more about it, they just tried elaborate ways to apply the "allows you to be lazy" part to themselves. "I'll just be a artist/party member/work whenever/etc"

There is also this sort of purposeful ignorance when it comes those who push socialism, communism, and welfare policies. Sure, evidence of communism failing exists, but you are assuming they are whiling to listen. These people only subscribe to approved information in their bubbles, and aggressively mock/disregard anything outside of it. You could force these people to listen to every horror story about communist regimes and they will gleefully ignore it. Then mock you for talking about it.

The more I work with shitty co-workers and my shit job,the more I wished the whole Communism Allows You To Be Lazy part was true.

Cause really fuck having to work for shit wages that doesn't even pay rent. The housing market is fucked and gas and groceries is following suit.

You slowly kill yourself for a job you hate but have to deal with and it is even worse when you have to deal with shit customers and co-workers on a daily basis.

The addition of Genocide and people dying is a plus for misanthropes which are growing by the number. Kinda hard to care when Boomers set that precedent to leave the problem to the next generations.