Why is transing kids wrong, but converting them perfectly acceptable?

[BestUserName]

I can't be the only one who thinks this isn't really much better than "gender affirmation treatment" on a grade schooler. I really want to see the kind of very 'special' pleading that characterizes the extreme ends of the horseshoe.

 

[Chunky Salsa]

It's actually very simple, being a tranny, or gay, is being mentally unwell and taking party in deviant behaviours. Fixing those behaviours, is not. If you cannot comprehend this, then I am sorry, but you have been bell curved and are stupid. It's like asking "How come cutting off my fingers is seem as harmful, but telling me I can't do that isn't?" Because it is.

 

[BestUserName]

Did you read the link? Is what it describes really 'harmless' to you?

 

[The Mighty Banth]

Less surgical mutilation.

 

[Mike Matei's Penis]

Well you can be converted back from a religion, not converted back to having functioning genitals.

 

[Colon capital V]

"Would you rather have molten aluminum or rusty nails forced down your spincter?"
Trooning kids out or sending them to conversion camps leads to the same outcome: both groomed and raped by pedophiles that will end with roping.

 

[Not 6 Foot]

Who said it was perfectly acceptable?

 

[JohnnyG]

I can't be the only one who thinks this isn't really much better

- Geocities site about 50+ year old grad student experiment
- Mother takes kid to stranger at ((UCLA))
- No mention of father
- "world-renowned experts at UCLA’s Gender Identity Clinic have distanced themselves from the children’s behavioral modification program"

Strawman defeated, rainbow ideology vindicated, the REAL tragedy isn't the thousands of kids being molestered, sterilized, and castrated to this day, it's some kid whose single mother let him be bullied half a century ago.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

I can't be the only one who thinks this isn't really much better than "gender affirmation treatment" on a grade schooler. I really want to see the kind of very 'special' pleading that characterizes the extreme ends of the horseshoe.

The Kirk Murphy article you linked is horrifying not because the events had the goal of "converting" a child, but because adults imposed a behavioral regime to force conformity to an identity the child didn't choose. The shit they did was coercive, outcome-driven, and indifferent to truth. That's the same rationale why contemporary gender affirmation practices are objectionable, because they "validate queerness" mechanically, on demand, through irreversible methods, and based on treating childhood self-narration as if it were a diagnostic fact.

In both cases, the problem is treating children as some sort of substance to be molded by adult ideology. Both transing kids and conversion therapy have in common a complete failure to realize that children are neither moral free agents nor adult-owned clay. And I'm convinced that anyone who understands that point won't defend either

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Too lazy to read that link but whatever it is almost certainly is not as bad as trooning.

 

[Chunky Salsa]

Did you read the link? Is what it describes really 'harmless' to you?

Unfortunately, you have been bell curved. Very sad.

 

[Crocodylus Acutus]

Here is my answer to your question:

 

[BestUserName]

Well you can be converted back from a religion, not converted back to having functioning genitals.

Can you convert from childhood abuse?

"Would you rather have molten aluminum or rusty nails forced down your spincter?"
Trooning kids out or sending them to conversion camps leads to the same outcome: both groomed and raped by pedophiles that will end with roping.

It doesn't matter to the Autistic Thunderdome if kids are raped, it only matters whether the rapists are Team Red or Team Blue.

Who said it was perfectly acceptable?

The first person to comment on this thread.

- Geocities site about 50+ year old grad student experiment
- Mother takes kid to stranger at ((UCLA))
- No mention of father
- "world-renowned experts at UCLA’s Gender Identity Clinic have distanced themselves from the children’s behavioral modification program"

Strawman defeated, rainbow ideology vindicated, the REAL tragedy isn't the thousands of kids being molestered, sterilized, and castrated to this day, it's some kid whose single mother let him be bullied half a century ago.

So what happened was okay, because only once? Also, great appeal to worse problems fallacy, I was worried for a second there.

 

[BestUserName]

The Kirk Murphy article you linked is horrifying not because the events had the goal of "converting" a child, but because adults imposed a behavioral regime to force conformity to an identity the child didn't choose. The shit they did was coercive, outcome-driven, and indifferent to truth. That's the same rationale why contemporary gender affirmation practices are objectionable, because they "validate queerness" mechanically, on demand, through irreversible methods, and based on treating childhood self-narration as if it were a diagnostic fact.

In both cases, the problem is treating children as some sort of substance to be molded by adult ideology. Both transing kids and conversion therapy have in common a complete failure to realize that children are neither moral free agents nor adult-owned clay. And I'm convinced that anyone who understands that point won't defend either

You don't have to tell me they're both bad, even if the surgery makes the trooning slightly worse. I want to understand the thought prosses (more likely Mottle & Baily) in trad-cons that makes the former (as well as what happened to Alen Turing) so hunky dory.

Too lazy to read that link but whatever it is almost certainly is not as bad as trooning.

Appeal to worse problems fallacy, the second appearance.

 

[JohnnyG]

Also, great appeal to worse problems fallacy, I was worried for a second there.

Appeal to worse problems fallacy, the second appearance.

"Appeal to worse problems" might be a fallacy, if we were redirecting limited political attention/practical energy from tackling a current, solvable problem, toward something faraway and unsolvable.

But since this is the opposite, ie you trying to pull limited resources from a current, solvable problem to some anecdote from 50 years ago, I think "Appeal to faker & gayer problem fallacy" would be the relevant label.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

I want to understand the thought prosses (more likely Mottle & Baily) in trad-cons that makes the former (as well as what happened to Alen Turing) so hunky dory.

That's fairly simple then
Many tradcons don't oppose coercion at all, they just oppose deviation. That's why they'll call gender surgeries child abuse, but find chemical castration for fags hunky dory. Their standard is not consent or integrity, their standard is obedience to a moral blueprint
A principled stance rejects both trooning out and child abuse because it recognizes that children aren't some property to be fixed, punished, or sculpted, regardless if it's being done by progressives or reactionaries

 

[Not 6 Foot]

The first person to comment on this thread.

I would argue that you're the one who implied it was okay in an attempt to argue with a stance nobody actually holds. The first reply gave you the ragebait you were looking for.

 

[BestUserName]

"Appeal to worse problems" might be a fallacy, if we were redirecting limited political attention/practical energy from tackling a current, solvable problem, toward something faraway and unsolvable.

But since this is the opposite, ie you trying to pull limited resources from a current, solvable problem to some anecdote from 50 years ago, I think "Appeal to faker & gayer problem fallacy" would be the relevant label.

I'm not saying that. I'm well aware the trans-kids thing is way more of an issue, more so the institutional capture and quashing of dissent than just the surgery alone. I'm asking about those who think there isn't any serious problems whatsoever with ex-gay kids.

I would argue that you're the one who implied it was okay in an attempt to argue with a stance nobody actually holds. The first reply gave you the ragebait you were looking for.

If pointing out double standards and special pleading is ragbait, then 99.999......% of my posts on the internet count as 'ragbait'. Is the Quiverfull not so worrisome for young girls just because the Taliban in Afghanistan is inarguably much worse? Here's another link.

 

[Not 6 Foot]

If pointing out double standards and special pleading is ragbait, then 99.999......% of my posts on the internet count as 'ragbait'.

You literally asked to see it, my dude. I don't know what else to tell you.

You didn't walk into a thread full of people talking about how great various conversion therapies are and post that in an attempt to argue, you created a thread, created a strawman, and then asked to see the, "pleading," that you then got. You wanted ragebait. You got it.

 

[Chunky Salsa]

Being a faggot is a mental illness, people should be fixed of that mental illness. Raping and torturing them doesn't seem to work, so that is bad, but the desire to fix them is not. It's really not complicated.
"See, surgery is bad because I found examples of bad surgery!" 'This is Jack the Ripper' "SPECIAL PLEADING! HORSEHOE THOERY!"

Bell curved.