Why not socially conservative leftism?

[Prophetic Spirit]

Why not take anarchism to the logical conclusion and embrace egotistical combatocracy? Only one person matters, so only one person gets to live

hey, that sounds horrible, but i get the idea.

 

[nigga that crab pollack]

View attachment 3454107
This has been a point from some actual leftist. They talk about Healthcare that excludes blacks (they know it's the reason European countries were able to male it work), anti-capitalism (they hate consumerism since it weakens men and hurts the environment), and oppose tranny and degenerate shit (actual working people can't afford to do that)

well the inevitable problem with 'leftism' in the modern context is that it's a patchwork homunculus of a bunch of constantly shifting and contradictory ideologies that only exists to maintain a status quo, it's not something that came about due to people deciding it was a good solution or something created to do something. a lot of the ideas generally considered to be left wing are capable of being constructed in a positive way but the problems with modern leftism just go back to postmodernism and marxism, pretty much the forces at play that started the russian revolution. leftism is not epistomologically unsound, but the current state of affairs is pretty much indistinguishable from Trotsky's Permanent Revolution. Everything retarded you see is pretty much by design because the whole point of it was to convince a bunch of russian serfs to rebel against the state without any real payment or guarantee of future sovereignty - the whole conceit of marxism is that marx didn't design shit, everything beyond the philosophical theory was created by a bunch of power hungry lunatics that killed millions of people.

and it's really easy to say 'leftism isn't marxism' but i've been to college, good luck finding a single framework in use in academia that doesn't have marx shoehorned into it. the historical-materialist dialectic is straight up where oppression olymics victim-worship comes from and it wasn't even written by marx, Joseph Stalin came up with it.

 

[SwanSwanson]

Have fun.

YEAAHHHH BABY WOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Why not socialism of the national variety?

I'm a bit too anti gubrment for that

literally hitler
in simplified terms, national socialism was center left on economic policy, center right on social policy, and hard right on foreign policy

That wasn't real national socialism haha

View attachment 3454107
This has been a point from some actual leftist. They talk about Healthcare that excludes blacks (they know it's the reason European countries were able to male it work), anti-capitalism (they hate consumerism since it weakens men and hurts the environment), and oppose tranny and degenerate shit (actual working people can't afford to do that)

I agree with all this except with the sentiment about excluding blacks from healthcare

 

[Bum Driller]

Actually, Soviet Union was pretty socially conservative, and so are most of the boomer and older than that leftists in Europe even today. What makes them leftists is basically that they support strong labour unions and workers rights, public education, public healthcare and public everything you can think of, but they couldn't give a rat's ass about the issues the younger leftists are invested in, like troons and identity politics.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

the historical-materialist dialectic is straight up where oppression olymics victim-worship comes from and it wasn't even written by marx, Joseph Stalin came up with it.

I was under the impression that it predated Marx. Western leftists definitely picked it up and ran with it, though.

The interesting thing about leftypol type leftists, those that whine about identity politics, is that they failed to acknowledge that the adoption of identity politics was an act of pragmatism. The fact that identity politics is very useful to the elite to divide the working and middle classes is irrelevant.

The adoption of identity politics came from the frustration that most developed countries, and America in particular, did not overthrow their governments to put a communist system into place, that only shitty, backwards countries like Russia did. They realized that they could not rely on class warfare alone to divide people and get them to burn down their own society, so they moved to other aspects of human existence, like race, gender, sexuality, etc.

Class-based identity politics are still identity politics too. And even that alone resulted in the genocide of millions of Ukrainians during the 30s. And it's also the justification that antifa has for burning down small businesses, including black-owned.

The funny thing about leftism. It can't win without identity politics, and it can't win with it either.

Actually, Soviet Union was pretty socially conservative, and so are most of the boomer and older than that leftists in Europe even today. What makes them leftists is basically that they support strong labour unions and workers rights, public education, public healthcare and public everything you can think of, but they couldn't give a rat's ass about the issues the younger leftists are invested in, like troons and identity politics.

The Soviet Union started off as VERY socially liberal, but then suddenly scaled it back in the late 20s and 30s.

And yes, it was an act of pragmatism. Not because those meanie "state capitalists" hijacked the revolution.

How sexual revolution exploded (and imploded) across 1920s Russia (PHOTOS)

Travesti parties, Vladimir Lenin advocating sexual freedom, nudist anarchists aboard trams, a nude beach near the cathedral of Christ the Savior…...

www.rbth.com

https://archive.ph/Bqpnu

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I agree with all this except with the sentiment about excluding blacks from healthcare

How about just putting them at the end of the waiting list? That'd be a good compromise.

 

[Getwhatyou]

Can you be racist and left leaning? I believe in Healthcare and forms of gun control.

But I also think we should be free to make as much cash as possible even if this comes at the cost of the environment.

And I really really hate niggers. Well a better way to put it is. I hate niggers but don't mind blacks. Everyone can be a nigger but it just happens to be alot of niggers are blacks.

I dislike trannies but don't think they should be exterminated. Rather encouraged so we can remove them from the breeding pool early.

Social assistance like food stamps is a good thing for truly suffering and destitute ppl and I'm fine with taxes helping families have roof so the blacks they breed don't turn into full blown niggrs.

Religious freedom is sweet. Dont ever push your religion me. Get fucked. Ie abortion bullshit. However pushing to states is really the best way to do it. (Let's be honest we actually need to breed more Americans not less if them, immigrants are the issue. Not born and bred USA regardless of color)

 

[Mayor Adam West]

The ASP is unironically better than either party.

 

[nigga that crab pollack]

I was under the impression that it predated Marx. Western leftists definitely picked it up and ran with it, though.

The interesting thing about leftypol type leftists, those that whine about identity politics, is that they failed to acknowledge that the adoption of identity politics was an act of pragmatism. The fact that identity politics is very useful to the elite to divide the working and middle classes is irrelevant.

The adoption of identity politics came from the frustration that most developed countries, and America in particular, did not overthrow their governments to put a communist system into place, that only shitty, backwards countries like Russia did. They realized that they could not rely on class warfare alone to divide people and get them to burn down their own society, so they moved to other aspects of human existence, like race, gender, sexuality, etc.

Class-based identity politics are still identity politics too. And even that alone resulted in the genocide of millions of Ukrainians during the 30s. And it's also the justification that antifa has for burning down small businesses, including black-owned.

The funny thing about leftism. It can't win without identity politics, and it can't win with it either.

https://stars.library.ucf.edu/prism/567/

It's only 40 pages and it's not worth reading in its entirety but it's legitimately impressive how many statements Stalin makes that you read and just think "this is exactly what people say on the internet with full earnesty" and it's also completely retarded because he's rationalizing it in comparison to other functional ideological frameworks that make a lot more sense in comparison. Stalin specifically says he refuses the Heigelian dialectic and that's probably the single most useful piece of heuristics humanity has ever come up with. He's peddling retarded half-truths and with hindsight and historical context it just reads like a cult manifesto, the whole postmodern relativism thing is part and parcel of the whole success of the Soviets

you're correct in that it was a pragmatic and strategic choice for the left but that's because they left classical liberalism behind for marxism, and the following statement is all too common when talking about the sovietsphere or socialists in general - they simply don't hold themselves to the standards that they claim to hold themselves to. If they did, the system would work. The problem is, the system isn't logically consistent so that's impossible. You can make a system that does, but then they would have to separate it from like a hundred years of historical context. and the whole 'materialist dialectic' prevents you from separating history from ideas anyways so im literally just saying that its fundamentally flawed from the get-go

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

they simply don't hold themselves to the standards that they claim to hold themselves to. If they did, the system would work.

They never do. Marx and Engels didn't either.

I wouldn't want to live under communism even if said society followed it perfectly and consistently. I don't accept the whole premise of, "communism failed because it wasn't communist enough."

 

[Blobby's Murder Knife]

They never do. Marx and Engels didn't either.

I wouldn't want to live under communism even if said society followed it perfectly and consistently. I don't accept the whole premise of, "communism failed because it wasn't communist enough."

The only communes that seem to work are not based on communist philosophy. Bruderhof springs to mind.

 

[Pimpleking55]

Lets go for a National Socialist Christian Theocracy with state sponsored crusades.

 

[nigga that crab pollack]

They never do. Marx and Engels didn't either.

I wouldn't want to live under communism even if said society followed it perfectly and consistently. I don't accept the whole premise of, "communism failed because it wasn't communist enough."

the point i was trying to make was that the philosophy of marxism is a valid framework of criticism. it works. it is not a religion or a world view, it's literally just the idea that rich people have some degree of cultural and social advantage beyond just capital, which is in fact a tangible problem with capitalism. that being said, that doesn't mean that he "totally slayed" capitalism or whatever the fuck twitteristas want to think about it because his communist revolution fantasy was literally just larping, he provided a critique, not a solution. whatever the fuck lenin and stalin did to turn that critique into a non-capitalist government is also "marxism", technically "leninism-marxism" but nobody calls it that.

no shit that communism doesn't work, you have to be a fucking moron to say that when you can just read about the history of the soviet union. marxism is a legitimate framework of critique for a lot of topics as long as you don't force people to use it for everything at all times with no exceptions - the very thing that led to the demise of the soviet union. It's almost like these people aren't even trying to find answers, they're just doing what a man in a suit tells them to do

 

[PipTheAlchemist]

Because it combines the most cringe aspects of both the right and the left. I don't want to be morally-dictated to by some fuckhead about being too "degenerate", because I decided to smoke a little bit of a weed, while I have to pay like 90% of my income in taxes to support dumbass peasants who are probably all raging faggots who don't deserve a single cent of a money. No thx, fag

 

[Ser Prize]

Actually, Soviet Union was pretty socially conservative, and so are most of the boomer and older than that leftists in Europe even today. What makes them leftists is basically that they support strong labour unions and workers rights, public education, public healthcare and public everything you can think of, but they couldn't give a rat's ass about the issues the younger leftists are invested in, like troons and identity politics.

The same soviet union that pushed the abolishing of the family structure and monogamy? The same soviet union that was the abortion capital for a long ass time?

 

[PipTheAlchemist]

The same soviet union that pushed the abolishing of the family structure and monogamy? The same soviet union that was the abortion capital for a long ass time?

But Stalin hated gays, so that means the Soviet Union is automatically heckin' based and redpilled

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

The same soviet union that pushed the abolishing of the family structure and monogamy? The same soviet union that was the abortion capital for a long ass time?

I think at some point during the nineties or aughts, it became the abortion capital of the world again, even earning an entry in the book of world records.

 

[Tomboy Respecter]

People keep on saying Hitler is the epitome of this but Teddy Roosevelt and Francisco Franco (lol Spanish "names") also tried their own variants of it, which were marginally successful until globohomo ruined it. Really, I think, social conservatism mixed in with moderate economic liberalism is the most sensible political stance on the problems we face in the modern world. But of course since it doesn't increase the profit margins for globohomo, it's never going to be implemented IRL.

 

[Wormy]

How about just putting them at the end of the waiting list? That'd be a good compromise.

Because many of them are far more deserving of healthcare than you are.

But of course since it doesn't increase the profit margins for globohomo, it's never going to be implemented IRL.

Who's profit margins should be increased?

 

[mickey339]

The same soviet union that pushed the abolishing of the family structure and monogamy? The same soviet union that was the abortion capital for a long ass time?

The soviet union banned abortion (at times) and taxed the unmarried and childless.