Why objective morality is important?

Brightstar777

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1- Quarreling between two or more individuals.When misunderstanding occurs, individuals assume there is an objective standard of right and wrong, of which each person is aware and one has broken. Why quarrel if no objective standard exists?

By definition, quarreling (or arguing) involves trying to show another person that he is in the wrong. And as Lewis indicates, there is no point in trying to do that unless there is some sort of agreement as to what right and wrong actually are, just like there is no sense in saying a football player has committed a foul if there is no agreement about the rules of football

2- It’s obvious that an objective moral standard exists. Throughout history, mankind has generally agreed that “the human idea of decent behavior [is] obvious to everyone.”For example, it’s obvious (or self-evident) that torturing a child for fun is morally reprehensible.

As the father of two children, a daughter who is five and a son who is three, I have noticed that even my young children recognize that certain things are obviously right or wrong. For example, while watching a show like PJ Masks, my children can easily point out the good characters as well as the bad ones – even without my help. In short, the overwhelming obviousness that certain acts are clearly right or wrong indicates that an objective moral standard exists.

3- Attempting to improve morally. Certainly, many people strive to improve their moral character every day. No rational person begins their day with the intention, "Today, I'm going to be more immoral!" If there is no absolute standard of good which exists, then talk of moral improvement is nonsensical and actual moral progress is impossible. If no ultimate standard of right and wrong exists, then one might change his actions, but he can never improve his morality.

If there is hope of moral improvement, then there must be some sort of absolute standard of good that exists above and outside the process of improvement. In other words, there must be a target for humans to aim their moral efforts at and also a ruler by which to measure moral progress. Without an objective moral standard of behavior, then “[t]here is no sense in talking of ‘becoming better’ if better means simply ‘what we are becoming’ – it is like congratulating yourself on reaching your destination and defining destination as ‘the place you have reached.’”

for an objective moral system to exist, God must exist. For a moral system to be truly objective, moral law must stem from a source external to humanity. Otherwise, all we have is subjective human moral opinion, no matter how it is dressed up. The implications of this are particularly fascinating, most unbelievers live and act as though they believe in objective moral standards, yet their worldview illogically denies the possibility of such standards existing.

In this framework, moral truths are objective and absolute, meaning that they do not change based on individual opinions, cultures, or time periods. What is morally right or wrong is not determined by human preference but by God's nature or will.

Because God is seen as a perfect, all-knowing, and benevolent being, His nature provides a standard for what is "good." Therefore, morality isn't a human invention, but a reflection of God's will and character. Morality exists independently of humans and is rooted in a divine reality.

For many religious traditions, God's nature is viewed as inherently good, perfect, and just. Therefore, moral values are understood to reflect God's intrinsic nature. What is morally right is in harmony with God's character—goodness, justice, mercy, and love.

The Problem of Evil: If God is the source of all morality, then how do we reconcile the existence of evil and suffering in the world? The presence of moral evil, like suffering, injustice, and cruelty, challenges the notion of a perfectly good and omnipotent God. This is the classic problem of evil, which theologians have attempted to address in various ways.
 
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Honestly it's pretty simple.

If morality is subjective, then I could argue raping kids is fine as long as I convince the local culture that I'm right.

Its only if objective morality is real that raping kids is actually wrong.
 
Objective morality is good for the entire community, subjective morality is good for individuals in positions of power.

Best example is thievery. A thief hurts society in trust and safety, which is why thievery was always heavily punished, even if the thief was on the verge of starvation. Modern attempts to legitimise thievery use subjective morality but in actuality only apply to thieves targeting low/middle class businesses.

Objective morality is important because it means you can't have a two tier police system where the same action is entirely dependent on who are the victim and perpetrators.
As the father of two children, a daughter who is five and a son who is three
God damn dude, leave this site and spend time with your children.
 
torturing a child for fun
The fact that you had to make this distinction implies that there is a degree of relativity to morality. While nearly everyone can agree "fun" is very weak justification for doing any morally questionable act, there are other justifications which become more arbitrary.
Is it okay to torture a child in order to prevent the torture of two? Bentham would say yes. Kant would say no. That this divide exists puts the "obviousness" of morality in question.

Morality can be of human origin and subjective to a degree while at the same time having some objective qualities, however.
What makes a good screwdriver? We can objectively say its capacity to drive a screw plays a central role. Secondary attributes like durability should probably factor in as well. But is an electric screwdriver "better" than a manual one? Should it have a longer shaft or a shorter shaft? Rubber grip or wood? These things vary on individual needs and preferences. It's easy to see that a screwdriver, a human invention, has both objective and subjective features that people use to assess quality.

So let's assume morality is a human invention:
We can assess a given system of morality by weighing it against the "obvious." If your system allows baby rape on a whim, it's probably not a functional moral system. So one quality by which we might assess a moral system is by its capacity to minimize the number of raped babies. But other qualities may still be up to individual or collective consent.
 
The fact that you had to make this distinction implies that there is a degree of relativity to morality. While nearly everyone can agree "fun" is very weak justification for doing any morally questionable act, there are other justifications which become more arbitrary.
Is it okay to torture a child in order to prevent the torture of two? Bentham would say yes. Kant would say no. That this divide exists puts the "obviousness" of morality in question.

Morality can be of human origin and subjective to a degree while at the same time having some objective qualities, however.
What makes a good screwdriver? We can objectively say its capacity to drive a screw plays a central role. Secondary attributes like durability should probably factor in as well. But is an electric screwdriver "better" than a manual one? Should it have a longer shaft or a shorter shaft? Rubber grip or wood? These things vary on individual needs and preferences. It's easy to see that a screwdriver, a human invention, has both objective and subjective features that people use to assess quality.

So let's assume morality is a human invention:
We can assess a given system of morality by weighing it against the "obvious." If your system allows baby rape on a whim, it's probably not a functional moral system. So one quality by which we might assess a moral system is by its capacity to minimize the number of raped babies. But other qualities may still be up to individual or collective consent.
It is not okay to torture a child, I mean it is wrong to torture a child to prevent the torture of two, you should teach him a lesson without torture, Morality is clear and evident to a discerning mind and all morality is subjective.

The prevalence of moral disagreements both within and between societies is often cited as evidence for the subjectivity of morality. People in different cultures, and even within the same culture, may have fundamentally different views about what is right or wrong. For instance, one person might argue that abortion is morally wrong, while another might believe it's a woman's right to choose.

that's why God is the source of all morality, Many theistic philosophers argue that God is the standard of all goodness and morality. According to this view, moral actions are considered good because they align with God’s nature. Since God is morally perfect, all of God's actions are inherently good, and thus God's character provides a standard by which all human actions can be judged.
 
you should teach him a lesson without torture
I didn't mean to imply the child you're potentially torturing is in any way responsible for the potential torture of the two children. Assume all children involved are completely innocent.
Two children are slated to be tortured by some cosmic force for no apparent reason. If you offer to torture some arbitrary other child, the two children will not be tortured. What is the morally correct move?
Honestly, this is just the trolley problem that I shoehorned in to your torture example.

I'm aware of the divine command argument for morality. What I'm saying is it is not airtight.
 
Bentham would say yes. Kant would say no. That this divide exists puts the "obviousness" of morality in question.
Not really. That two of the most autistic people who ever lived disagree is hardly proof of anything. And the trolly problem is mental masturbation designed to excuse allied genocides in WWII namely the firebombing campaigns of Dresden and Tokyo.
 
Objective morality is good for the entire community, subjective morality is good for individuals in positions of power.

Best example is thievery. A thief hurts society in trust and safety, which is why thievery was always heavily punished, even if the thief was on the verge of starvation. Modern attempts to legitimise thievery use subjective morality but in actuality only apply to thieves targeting low/middle class businesses.

Objective morality is important because it means you can't have a two tier police system where the same action is entirely dependent on who are the victim and perpetrators.

God damn dude, leave this site and spend time with your children.
This is alsp why you need a divine being to serve instead of a man, because that man would be an individual woth power.
 
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So are you saying there is an objectively correct answer here?
What would that be?
What I'm saying is that the trolley problem and derivative questions were formulated to justify horrible decisions by creating the false impression that said real horrible decisions were only ever between two bad things as if reality is so simple.
 
What I'm saying is that the trolley problem and derivative questions were formulated to justify horrible decisions by creating the false impression that said real horrible decisions were only ever between two bad things as if reality is so simple.
The source is irrelevant.
And of course it's an unrealistically simplistic scenario. Simplified abstractions are useful to establish general principles. Almost any time you've seen a mathematical formula to describe a physical phenomena, you understand that the scenarios you apply those equations to are typically idealized and the results are a rough approximation because the real world has tons of added variables. Does that make the equations useless? absolutely not. So why take issue with an oversimplified thought experiment?

Want a real world example of the trolley problem? Organ harvesting. People who are unlikely to regain consciousness before they die are killed so that their organs can be used to save the lives of multiple people. This is typically done with consent via the donor registry but that consent is rarely "well-informed." How, exactly, this situation should be handled is hotly debated which lends credence to morality being far from "obvious."
 
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