Why people always get fascism wrong, especially among progressives? - Discuss fascism and the constant misusage of the word and ideology (and why a larger percentage of that happens among the progressive crowd)

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Fascism started out as a strain of socialism and somehow, largely through Communist influence on academia and media gradually transformed into a synonym for nazism and far right and now is a synonym for anything vaguely authoritarian for the general population and anything right of center for the left.

The funny thing is some of the seemingly most professional well established academics, historians, and authorities who don't seem to have any logical investment will deny the simple fact of fascism (and nazism's) ties to the left till they're blue in the face despite it being one of the most plain as day facts you cannot ignore from simply reading the primary sources. People in the ivory tower of course tend to be more leftarded but its like they all got together one day and agreed to be much more tarded than usual about this one thing.

Its by far one of the top gaslit areas of history.
 
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In answer to the OP's question, the reason is the power of connotation (which is more to do with emotion, as opposed to denotation, which is more rational), and its abuse by the so-called progressives (see what they did there? Progress=good, even if you're progressing towards a sheer cliff, unlike the more neutral 'movement' or 'change'). In the weaponisation of language in that way, it matters less what fascism actually is, than that it's bad. It's the same game that they play with e.g. redefining racism, or saying things like 'words are violence'. Another example of this general phenomenon is the way in which euphemisms get replaced once they have accrued sufficiently negative connotations, such as the word retarded (which simply means delayed) etc. But I digress.
 
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Drain Todger said:
To a fascist, the state and the people are the same thing.
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The rest of your points are accurate but this, I disagree with. To national socialism, this is correct, but this is not true to Mussolini's fascism, to him the Italian people exist because there is an Italian state, not the other way around. This makes sense as Italy has different ethnic groups that had only been under the same state since relatively recently.
On another note, Eco's characteristics of fascism are awful and he doesn't know what he's talking about. He mentions things that are purely circumstancial or just straight wrong. Painting your enemies as both too strong and too weak? That's ironic since that can be applied to any ideology, especially nowadays when apparently nobody is a fascist but suddenly they're a huge threat to democracy. Read actual fascist authors if you want an actual definition instead of this hack.
 
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If leftists actually explained what fascism is to their fanbase then a lot of them would find it appealing or realize they have more things in common than they thought.

Fascism was a reaction to marxism and originally pooled the most people from worker's movements. Maybe the working class wants to fight bankers without the judaism and abolish provate property thing.
 
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Is this translation of The Fascist Doctrine worth reading?

Link | Archive

It said it was the only complete and official translation of it on the Internet from the official Fascist government of Italy at the time, but the footnote provided by World Future Fund also gives out trigger warning about waycism and “religious intolerance” (whatever those mean to the World Future Fund). I’m skeptical since I want to learn more about fascism and any advice on Reddit will likely recommend the most politically correct one.
 
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grump said:
Fascism started out as a strain of socialism and somehow, largely through Communist influence on academia and media gradually transformed into a synonym for nazism and far right and now is a synonym for anything vaguely authoritarian for the general population and anything right of center for the left.
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People should use the term “collectivism” more. It better identifies the common characteristic.

Conversely, communist sympathizers use the term “fascism” obsessively to de-emphasize the common characteristic.
 
I suggest reading Giovanni Gentile's Doctrine of Fascism, a fairly short work which was endorsed by Mussolini. After that I recommend reading transcripts of Mussolini's speeches from 1919 until 1940 or so. That's fascism in its purest form--a variant of socialism which embraces the nation instead of the internationalism and materialism espoused by Marx.

The context of fascism as a form of socialism is lost because the left has deliberately concealed the fact that their variety of socialism and communism are one in the same (the difference between socialists like the Democrat Party and Labour Party and the USSR is the latter believed in revolution and the former believed in incrementalism thanks to the Fabian Society). Fascism rejects this entirely and embraces realism, taking what aspects of socialism are good for the nation and discarding ones that aren't, namely the unrealistic and utopic aspects (since fascism has better understanding of the human character due to not being materialist) and the idea of internationalism. Right wingers are right to equate socialism and fascism, but wrong in that they think the Democrats are fascists.

To be fair, there are many versions of fascism which has made it hard to pin down. Proto-fascists in France, Italy, and Spain (the national syndicalists) got called fascists for instance. In Germany, Mussolini's fascism merged with German mysticism (like Ariosophy, Alfred Rosenberg's works, etc.) and created the NSDAP. In a lot of countries, fascism got associated with religion so you had clerical fascism which got rid of the more superhuman element of Mussolini's ideology in favor of trad values.

But I think the main thing is that fascism posed a threat to the banker world order like nothing ever has since it merged the community-centric values with socialism but without the internationalism and globalism that the banker cartel needs to function. It could draw right wing support since it preserved religion while not glorifying rich landlords who donated lots of money to the Church. So they made damn sure that fascism became a dirty word as early as the 1930s. Orwell for instance wrote that everything from the Pope to Chiang Kai-shek was being called fascist and the word had lost its meaning. Today nobody will do proper research on fascism besides leftist ideologues and that includes the vast majority of supposed historians and political scientists who are supposedly experts on this topic.
Black Man Underwear said:
Severely toned down by Franco, Salazar, and their compatriots after WW2, most fascist nations were antisemitic, at least on paper.
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Then how do you explain literal Jewish Nazis? There were several organizations in Germany before 1935 (when Hitler banned them as part of his totalitarian decrees) which consisted of Jews who supported the NSDAP. Many Jews in Eastern Europe like Abraham Gancwajch and Chaim Rumkowski were Zionists who supported Hitler because Hitler wanted to ethnically cleanse the local goyim and believed Hitler would send the Jews to Israel or Madagascar. There were several Jewish fascist organizations in Israel before 1948 who were only disbanded because leftists took over Israel in 1948. Mussolini's Italy also was not antisemitic before he was asked to by Hitler in order to establish a more uniform Jewish policy.
 
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Save the Loli said:
Then how do you explain literal Jewish Nazis? There were several organizations in Germany before 1935 (when Hitler banned them as part of his totalitarian decrees) which consisted of Jews who supported the NSDAP. Many Jews in Eastern Europe like Abraham Gancwajch and Chaim Rumkowski were Zionists who supported Hitler because Hitler wanted to ethnically cleanse the local goyim and believed Hitler would send the Jews to Israel or Madagascar. There were several Jewish fascist organizations in Israel before 1948 who were only disbanded because leftists took over Israel in 1948. Mussolini's Italy also was not antisemitic before he was asked to by Hitler in order to establish a more uniform Jewish policy.
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Here's what I think.

Being ethnically Jewish, religiously Jewish, etc doesn't disqualify someone from being a fascist, or "antisemitic". Really, the term is thrown around as a stick to beat people they don't like. You'll be called antisemitic for criticizing Shomrim parading around like police.

David Cole is a Jewish Holocaust researcher who toured Auschwitz in the 90s. He was called antisemitic when he documented his tour, and added in a narration calling the whole thing a scam. He is ethnically Jewish, but nonpracticing, and maintains the Holocaust included no systemic murder. Is he fascist? I don't know.

The Jewish question isn't a question of Jewish existence, but of where they belong. Fascist Jews are just as fascist as Hitler, Mussolini, or Gentile. Rejecting international finance removes the "international" from "international Jew", and if left in their homelands, the "Jewish question" is solved.

Finally, Mussolini had a different vision than Hitler. Open antisemitism isn't universal, but dismantling of Marxism and Capitalism ends up sweeping the Jews that fascists don't like. Putting them all in Madagascar sounds like a fun idea if you really, really don't like them that much.

I'm well aware of the Lehi and Association of German National Jews. I find them to be a funky piece of history.

TLDR your mileage may vary.
 
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I was always under the impression that fascism didn't know a political orientation. That was one of the points Orwell tried to get across in his writing. That it didn't really matter whether your movement purported to be socialist or communist or nationalist, any of them could descend into authoritarianism, "fascism" if you will.
 
Is there even a definition of Fascism? It's originally just butthurt marxists changing a few things and passing it as a new ideology. Post ww2 it's simply a different way to say "bad person".
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
Is there even a definition of Fascism? It's originally just butthurt marxists changing a few things and passing it as a new ideology. Post ww2 it's simply a different way to say "bad person".
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While trying to make themselves seem smarter than they actually are.
 
AgendaPoster said:
Conservatives call almost everyone they disagree with socialists, including nazis; they often call liberals with political power fascists; and they call every far rightwinger a fed.
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If someone says "I wish we had [X] in our country" and you answer "[X] is Fascist/Socialist!", you didn't argue [X] was bad, you made an argument for Fascism/Socialism with a side of longhouse shaming.
verissimus said:
Like really, when did the words tyranny or tyrannical stop being a thing?
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I see it a lot in the 2A-twittersphere and in Corona-chan discussions. It comes off as very specifically propane-conservative, plus see above.
 
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