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Why play a fascist? Unpacking the hideousness of the Space Marine​

In order to make Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2 enjoyable, Saber Interactive had to make the Space Marines less like Space Marines. That's to say, less like "semi-lobotomized, hypnotically indoctrinated slave-soldiers in thrall to an uncaring (and possibly non-existent) god", in the words of Rick Priestley, primary writer for the original Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader rulebooks back in the 1980s.

In Warhammer 40,000's supposedly satirical, definitively grimdark Imperium Of Man, the Space Marines are the genetically engineered sons and warrior-monks of the Emperor, a messianic figure reduced to a dreaming corpse on the Golden Throne, whose immense psychic emissions serve as a kind of spirit lighthouse for interstellar travel. The Space Marines are grotesque supermen clad in motorised armour, who exist to exterminate the alien, the mutant and the unclean. They are the ultimate embodiment of patriarchal xenophobic fascism. This is a source of some irony, given that they themselves barely qualify any longer as human, according to the ideals of uncorrupted humanity they champion.

"It's very hard to imagine how they live their lives," Space Marine 2's creative director Oliver Hollis-Leick told me in an interview, shortly after the shooter launched in September. "They're so far from our daily lives and concerns. And we had to find a way to bridge that extreme mentality with something more human, that could be connected to by fans, by audiences, by players. So that we could actually make sense of their story, rather than them just being fanatical killing machines, because it's hard to like those characters."

In particular, of course, Saber want you to like the Space Marines under your control - protagonist Demetrian Titus and his subordinates, Chairon and Gadriel. Together, says Hollis-Leick, the trio form "a window into the difficult life of a Space Marine", where "there's a threat of corruption on every side, it's a real threat, and you have to be firm and unwavering, and then if you get on the right side of them, there's this absolute brotherhood and sacrifice that you get from it." Without spoiling too much, there is mistrust within the team: Chairon and Gadriel suspect Titus of being tainted by the swirling cosmic realm of Chaos, a seedbed for demons and sorcery. But the game tempers their zealotry, both in terms of the plot - which, as you'd expect from an action game, mires them in the moment of battle with overwhelming swarms of insect monsters - and in terms of how they talk.

Hollis-Leick and narrative director Craig Sherman pushed back on some of the "do's and don'ts" they received from Games Workshop about Space Marine vocabulary. They deviated from the suggested phraseology to make Titus and his comrades sound less "strange and antiquated", less like the Spanish Inquisition, and more like soldiers from real-world present-day militaries. "Space Marines don't necessarily say things like 'dismissed'," Hollis-Leick observed. "There's a line in the game where Acheran says 'company dismissed' and they really wanted me to change that to 'brothers, attend your duties', or something. But it's three words instead of one, and if that model was applied to all of the language in the game, I really strongly felt that people wouldn't get it."

It's saying something about how accustomed I am to the ostensibly parodic figure of the Space Marine being portrayed as a hero that I didn't really question this desire to make you "like" and "get" the "fanatical killing machines" at the time. To be clear, I don't think Saber are deliberately and consciously trying to kindle empathy for literal fascist enforcers in Space Marine 2. Much of the above reasoning is grounded in ostensibly neutral, best-practicey questions of craft and characterisation.

Still, it would have been useful to dig into what it means to make Space Marines likeable, because Warhammer 40,000 today has an issue with certain groups of players actively identifying with them. Exactly how far this extends is unclear, but the game's fascist subculture is significant enough that Games Workshop have felt moved to publish statements disavowing outright bigots, and 'reminding' the tabletop community that the Imperium Of Man is a send-up of fascism, of empire and of murderous patriarchs, not an endorsement.

The company's outspokenness is praiseworthy, and there's the argument that much of this is out of their hands: every community harbours extremists who read against the grain. But Games Workshop are also guilty of hypocrisy, here, in that modern-day Warhammer 40,000 is a far cry from the "satire" it once claimed to be. Back in the 1980s, Warhammer 40,000 could have been called counterculture, its loopy ur-fascistuniverse a warping of Thatcherite Britain and the Cold War, its artworks and characterisations subversive in their feckless jamming-together of devices from 2000 AD comics, Milton and Dune. But over time, the license holders have softened and consolidated the wackier elements in order to make Warhammer 40,000 more sellable - a gradual mainstreaming that has transformed the Space Marine in particular from a crazed and distorted thug into a stoical, comradely and devout 'necessary evil' pitched against a galaxy of apocalyptic terrors.

In 2023, the writer and designer Tim Colwill published a comprehensive account of how Warhammer 40,000's reverential militarism and apocalyptic fascist sentiments have slowly overgrown the more whimsical and pluralistic aspects of this "sci-fantasy" setting. He discusses how the Space Marine, Games Workshop's best-selling miniature, has 'matured' from a jackbooted bully into the doughty and dogmatic paladins we see in Space Marine 2, endowed with a "tacticool" aesthetic ready-made for modern third-person shooters, which "cleaves away from the colourful exaggeration of the 1980's and much closer to the real-world military gear of special forces operators".

As Colwill notes, one outcome of making Space Marines more like realworld soldiers is that Warhammer 40,000 has become more appealing to the actual military institutions that have so often proven to be allies or spawning grounds for fascists. He comments scathingly on the presence of United States Armed Forces recruiters at Warhammer 40,000 tournaments. He is similarly unimpressed by the recent "diversity-washing" of the setting's ubermensch - in Space Marine 2, Chairon and Gadriel are of non-white ethnicity, much to the chagrin of certain reactionary Warhammer players - and by Games Workshop's efforts to market this most vicious of fables to younger teenagers and children, even as older enthusiasts show up to events in Nazi regalia, or cheekily portray noted Hitler sympathiser Donald Trump as a present-day God Emperor.

Colwil's appraisal of Warhammer 40,000's gradual grimdarkening deserves to be read alongside Susan Sontag's essay "Fascinating Fascism", written in 1977, which explores how the culture industry can serve as a laundering apparatus for shitty ideas, reintroducing verboten people and things by means of an "insinuative" process of "waiting for cycles of taste to distill out the controversy". In the course of what is technically a product review - see, reviews are allowed to be political! - Sontag touches on the various means by which Nazi art especially has become acceptable as museum piece, as pop motif, as kink: the "knowing and sniggering detachment" of sophisticates, pissing about with tropes; an obstinate escapist inclination to divorce art from its political context and enjoy it "for itself", recently echoed in Saber Interactive CEO Matthew Karch's grumbling over games that "impose morals" on players; a delight in breaking taboos; and in the case of the Nazi filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl, a desire to reclaim a prominent female artist for feminism.

I think you see a similar blend of ironical enjoyment, fetishisation and questionable progressive politicking in how Warhammer 40,000 has evolved, since the debut of the tabletop wargame's first miniatures and rulebooks. One thing I read between the lines of Colwil's piece is the risk of intolerance bred by the increasing consistency and "professionalisation" of Warhammer 40,000 as a fiction. The early Warhammer 40,000 rulebooks are a jumble of inspirations and references: Judge Dredd, Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Rogue Trooper and much more besides. As Colwil explores, the later editions have standardised the writing and aesthetics of Warhammer 40,000, even as the setting has swelled in the hands of spin-off novelists, artists and animators. A tabletop universe based around improvisational painting and fan storytelling has become a canon that, in the case of Space Marine 2, obliged Saber to haggle with Games Workshop over everything from the spacing of rivets on power armour to how exactly Space Marines should walk, jog and run.

It can be pleasing to inhabit a fiction where all the pieces are smoothly bolted together, working in lockstep. But teaching people to favour the consistency of imaginary worlds may also teach them to vilify disagreement and the entire practice of interpretation. At its nastiest, this mentality both facilitates and camouflages bigotry. Take the backlash against the concept of female Space Marines. That Space Marine recruits are all cisgender men is a commercial accident, albeit one that speaks to the boy's club undertow of the wargaming scene: according to Colwil, Games Workshop simply couldn't sell enough boxes of mixed-gender Space Marines, and rewrote the lore to justify only shipping male miniatures. Nowadays, this business technicality has become an article of faith among certain male players, which makes the introduction of a new, Marine-adjacent faction of mixed-gender Custodes not just an attempt to attract women to the game, but a form of heresy.

All this notwithstanding, I'm not sure the mainstreaming of Warhammer 40,000's satire entirely explains why the setting has become so attractive to fascists that the license holders have felt moved to remind us that Warhammer 40,000 is supposed to be satire. The more complicated problem with Warhammer 40,000 is that the depictions of fascism it supposedly lampoons - the uniforms, posters, films and other artworks that drew millions in the 1930s and 1940s - are more compelling today than many anti-fascists would care to admit. It's dangerous, Sontag says, to reduce fascism to "brutishness and terror". Fascism survives because it offers things to aspire to - in Sontag's summary, "the ideal of life as art, the cult of beauty, the fetishism of courage, the dissolution of alienation in ecstatic feelings of community". These are relatively innocuous values and emotions that may also appear in, say, rock music, in superhero stories, at wargaming tournaments and sports events, and in earnest game developer paeans to "absolute brotherhood and sacrifice".

Speaking as an occasional enjoyer of Warhammer 40,000 (I loved Complex's XCOMalike Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters) I do think the setting actively channels various proto-fascist longings. Sontag's characterisation of the hypnotic "fascist dramaturgy" on display in Nazi artworks and photography of Nazi rallies reads like a dissection of a Space Marine codex cover - the classic spectacle of the Marines piled up like crabs in a bucket, balanced between "egomania and servitude", domination of others and submission to an almighty leader, "extravagant effort, and the endurance of pain".

Illustrations of Space Marine battle scenes and pageants are routinely defined by what Sontag calls "orgiastic transactions between mighty forces and their puppets, uniformly garbed and shown in ever swelling numbers", alternating "between ceaseless motion and a congealed, static, 'virile' posing". If there is supposed to be an overtone of absurdist exaggeration, I'm not sure that appears in a lot of latter-day Space Marine art. There is, I think, zero sense of caricature at work in Space Marine 2's combat: as Matthew Karch put it in his complaint about video game moralising, "we just want to do some glory kills and get the heart rate up a little."

Almost a century since European fascism arose, we may intellectually understand such art for a display of hatred, and yet still feel drawn to it, perhaps because we live in grimdark times indeed. I think the "brutishness and terror" of Warhammer 40,000, the obviousness of its debts to the theatrics of tyrants like Hitler and Mussolini, may actually be what lends it "positive" appeal, in that embracing a monstrous taboo produces a sense of freedom from the hypocrisy that 'all is well'. The Imperium is one of many cathartic dark fantasy statements about the hideousness of contemporary reality: it channels a conviction that our world, this neoliberal and imperial capitalist dog's dinner, is not in fact the height of progress, but fundamentally awful and only getting worse.

This was possibly true of Warhammer 40,000 as it was conceived in 1980s Britain. It's certainly true today, amid pandemics, mass layoffs, tangible climate change impacts, colonial genocide, witchhunts, sprawling enmity and inequality, and clear evidence that the planet's wealthiest are a pack of would-be post-human autocrats who are even now feeding their plunder into various "accelerationist" self-preservation initiatives, predicated on the extinction of everybody else. At the heart of the "developed" West, the civic and political institutions that arose from the old post-war liberal social consensus moulder in gathering undeath like the Emperor dreaming on his Golden Throne, objects of worship that have been hollowed out by capital.

At its most potent, the Imperium Of Man can be a fiction that renders all this disgustingly concrete and provides some relief, opening an interval for laughter and discussion. This, for me, is the point of its satire. But satire doesn't really work when you commodify it successfully: the all-important historical context is lost as the business evolves over decades and moves between markets, and the need to sell a product encourages a more straightforward, positive identification with the radiant fascist tropes Sontag describes.

Within Warhammer 40,000's galactic expression of despair, the figure of the Space Marine offers a particular sense of identity and purpose for suffering, vindictive men. Grieving for her own brother's turn toward misogyny, bell hooks writes that the first act of violence that patriarchy demands of men isn't abuse of women, but "self-mutilation", adding that "if an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem". This is what patriarchs mean by "making a man" of you, and Warhammer 40,000 monsters that process in the rituals of Space Marine's recruitment: abducted from the most traumatised levels of society; brutalised and brainwashed; carved open and filled with "gene-seeds" derived from alpha male "primarchs" that rework the flesh, producing ogre-ish scale and potency.

Space Marines are thereby rendered chemically sterile and as such, warded against the seductive, annihilating enigma that is the patriarchal conception of women. With a handful of exceptions in the spin-off books, any interest in romance or sex has been replaced by zealotry. Space Marines are the ultimate incels. They perform what Sontag calls fascism's "ideal eroticism: sexuality converted into the magnetism of leaders and the joy of followers", which doesn't simply erase the 'problem' of sex but reframes the savage repression of the sexual urge as a manly virtue.

The appeal of the Space Marine fantasy is that it takes the alienation, misogyny and misery of being "man-made" and flips it into a rigid gasmask of pride and belonging, of indestructible and unquestioning purpose. In return for all the mutilations it deals and expects, it promises calm and some degree of togetherness - and this is why it doesn't really operate, in the bulk of Warhammer 40,000 art I've encountered, as parody or satire. It's too heartfelt. In service to the Master of Mankind we transmute anguish into serenity. We find purpose in the mutual example of our battle-brothers, and in the reassuringly permanent suspicion of subversion. We are proofed and plated against the wiles of the exotic and the effete. We find peace in the fact of being already dead, already sacrificed and cannibalised by the glowing image of the elder patriarch.

I'm not immune to this hellish daydream. It's a carnival mirrorshow for all the tackly little aggressions and humiliations of my own upbringing. I understand my own masculinity as a wound that is slowly healing, and which is reopened periodically by the experience of art that cultivates the old patriarchal frenzy. I find Warhammer 40,000's Imperium freeing, as a magnification of the grinding stupidity of patriarchy, but I also feel the pull of these warty stereotypes. I look at the thunderously daft trailer for Relic's Warhammer 40,000: Dawn Of War 3 and, silly as it sounds, I tear up a little, because I see in the smiling face of the doomed Marine the sheer absence of fear my older male conditioning has always demanded, and never permitted. But I also look at it with anger, because of course, it is an idea that wants to kill me.

In the words of Ursula Le Guin, "it is the story that hid my humanity from me, the story the mammoth hunters told about bashing, thrusting, raping, killing, about the Hero." She was writing about how women and the tales they weave are omitted from the entire conception of narrative in Western fantasy literature. But this also describes how fables of masculinity, even farcical ones, hide from men their capacity for tenderness, for kindness. Like all caricatures, the Space Marine ought to shed light on all this, unpacking masculinity's old war machines, wrenching and exaggerating in order to reveal. But Space Marines today are not built for this purpose. They are designed to be heroes, their brainwashed fanaticism minimised even as their faces are cleansed of unsightly cyborg extrusions, the ugly metal fittings made elegant, comparable to the tactical headsets worn by their equivalents in Call Of Duty.

How could Warhammer 40,000, and video game adaptations like Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2, rediscover the setting's notional anti-fascism? I'm not sure it's possible: there is too much world-building to dismantle. I don't think there's much to be gained from cleaning up the image of the Space Marine, whether by having them say "company dismissed" instead of "brothers, attend your duties", or by re-characterising Space Marines according to otherwise worthwhile diversity ideals. You can't improve a monster like this. I think you have to double down on the hideousness instead. You have to lean into the unlikeability of the Space Marine. Above all, perhaps, you have to remind yourself that the Space Marine is a clown.

In the first editions of Warhammer 40,000, the Marines appear more ridiculous than formidable. They are squalid gargoyles of flesh and circuitry. They are strung-out fashy gang-bangers in leather belts and onion armour. They are incompetent coppers, sneering schutzstaffel.

They are silly and dysfunctional, leering between the number tables of the first edition like fairytale ogres playing at knights. Where today's Space Marines appear evenly proportioned and graceful for all their bulk, much of the early art occupies a hinterland between linear depth of perspective and the flattened crowds of a medieval altar piece. The Space Marines of this era look false and ungainly, at once bulbous and glistening and smeared across the canvas. They are laughable. They are enjoyable grotesques.

This reflects the ostentatiously scraped-together feel of early Warhammer 40,000 at large. It's a work of crafty and capacious thoughtlessness, marching beneath a sci-fantasy banner that grants license to pilfer from everywhere and everywhen. "High" and "low" culture undergo cybernetic recombination: the founding tale of a Space Marine rebellion against the Emperor, led by the Chaos-polluted Horus, is a reworking of Satan's treachery in Paradise Lost, but there is also a character called Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau, and a planet named in mockery of Birmingham. The whole thing is reminiscent of Shakespeare, not in the gilding of the poesy or the sentiments, but in the way it plays to the pit as much as to the gallery.

The setting has obvious topicality, but the fiction is too incoherent to be sustained political commentary. It reaches tentacles in all directions. It is a libidinal kit-bashing of everything the authors find intriguing or intriguingly revolting about their time. And at the core of all that ravenous world-building there is the Space Marine.

One of my favourite artworks from this primordial period is David Gallagher's Lost Patrol, printed on the cover of White Dwarf magazine in 1992. It depicts a crowd of Space Marines and other Imperial goons descending a stair in some phantom dimension, with the suggestion of city architecture in the top corner. A couple of the Marines resemble the ones you see in Space Marine 2, with uniform armour and heraldry and a particular squareness of jaw, a glintiness of eye that has become canonical. But most of them look like press-ganged junkies in face paint and pretentious mohawks, leering at the shadows. Their costumes and equipment are unconvincing, snatched from a backstage wardrobe in passing. There are chainswords and Lawmaker-style modular pistols, but there are also gaudy penants and ribboned Tudor sleeves. The guy in bottom right looks like he's bumbled in from a syncretic pagan re-enactment, with a laurel wreath and a feather dangling from his battleaxe.

Doubtless, much of this can be grounded in particular gobbets of Space Marine backstory, but the impression I get, looking back from 2024, is of a setting happy to lose and squander itself in the kinesis of its appropriations and transformations. The guy up top performatively pointing a gun that is also pointing itself feels like the mascot for these early years of gluttonous, disorderly pastiche. By contrast, Warhammer 40,000 today evokes stasis. It has compacted and reduced many of these disparate materials into something monolithic and ancient and respectable. Compare that artwork with Gallagher's later cover for the spin-off boardgame Lost Patrol. The matching uniforms. The interchangeable faces and sedate colour composition. The impression of being overwhelmed that is oddly consistent with an almost supine sense of control, of mastery over encroaching legions of the Other. Whatever energy was here is long gone.
 
gross fucking bugs
I mean, I loved Aliens, but I don't watch it for the Colonial Marines if you know what I mean (as awesome as they are).

I've said it before, but for me the Imperium is only as interesting as their enemies and the odds stacked against them. A lot of my favourite narrative pieces are from the perspective of the Imp Guard losing (The Fall of Malvolion) or accounts which are descriptive like the one of the Kroot ambushing and eating some Eldar alive, or the Mechanicus that went mad upon contact with the Necrons and ripped out all of his cybernetics.

Could you imagine an Eldar Phoenix Lord as a combat wraithbone engineer? Eldar have gotten so shafted for development since the Gathering Storm.
Was that when they formed the Ynnead or whatever? I'm not brushed up on it, but I wasn't a fan of that period - felt like an ultra-gay Last Alliance of Elves and Men from what I've seen.
 
Was that when they formed the Ynnead or whatever? I'm not brushed up on it, but I wasn't a fan of that period - felt like an ultra-gay Last Alliance of Elves and Men from what I've seen.
I have very little evidence but I suspect they were going to do a 40k end times with a softer reboot than AoS but then they pussied out when they got the backlash from killing off Warhammer fantasy.
 
Can't forget that Bjorn the Fell-Handed was so horny after his conversion he even started flirting with a psychic blank. You know, a group of people who everyone finds naturally abhorrent as a result of literal soullessness. I also believe that its hinted that Lukas was banging women even after becoming a Space Wolf. Blood Claws are known for their... fiery temperament and all that. IIRC Ragnar Blackmane had some thoughts to work through about a good-looking psyker chick right after he was accepted as a Marine.
"He wants to be left alone," said Fulgrim. "To shoot off into the stars and hunt down xenos on those delightful jetbikes. They’re devilishly fast. I heard from a contact on Mars, Jaghatai, that you do strange things to your ships."
The Khan shot him a heavy-lidded stare. "I heard you do strange things to your warriors.”
Pic related, it's Fulgrim's face when
doge-smug.jpg
 
The article is basically correct actually.

Warhammer 40K does speak to the longings men have-the longings for brotherhood, glorious death in sacrifice and the elevation of one's body and one's physical faculties into art.

Susan Sontag Jewish fiend that she was-is correct here.

The reason why 40K attracts such vitriol and so many right wingers, is precisely because it speaks to the same longings moustache man stirred in the thirties.

Thing is, the libtards and Jews in this article want you to see this as a bad thing.

Its not.
 
Okay, I've read the whole thread now. Replying sperging from a 1st edition player incoming.

Other gods that fit their mold are Malal for being the god of hate, terrorism & parasitism
I'd say Malal is more the god of anarchism and maybe self-hatred. He's the god whose goal is the destruction of the other gods. In the old White Wolf cartoons his champion was a Elric-like expy who rode his demon horse and fought alone rather than having a faction of followers like the rest. I'm pretty sure cannibalism was a recurrent theme amongst his followers as well. But whilst I'm not so sure where you got terrorism and parasitism from, Hate does fit.

nobody beyond the severely autistic cares about Eldar or Tau.
Hey. I care about the Eldar. Oh, right...

The comparison with Eco's essay is that the different examples of fascism he talked about has some elements in common with each other, but not any one central unifying feature. Like the modern left uses fascism as a byword for "charismatic leader, masculine tropes, aggressive nationalist racism, etc, etc". But Italy, for example, didn't have nearly the aggressive nationalist racism against the jews that we associate with Nazi Germany. They had some anti-jewish policies, but things were reasonably calm until the nazis themselves were in charge of things.
This is why I'm fond of saying that the Nazis spoiled fascism for everybody.

I also despise how they discuss 40k as if women play no part and have no power anywhere. They ignore the battle sisters, the sisters of silence, the inquisitors, the literal military leaders that are women. It’s so absurd. But since space marines and custodes are only CIS men it’s bad. Probably drives them crazy they can’t have space marine gay orgies either. Although now that I say it, they’ll probably try.
It's like a Struggle Session. It's less important that the Astartes are only men and more important that it's a sticking point for the fanbase. If they can make people backdown over it, then they've breached the walls and can make people back down over everything else. They don't really give a damn about Astartes having females amongst them. What would it even mean after all that surgery and body modification if one was? The goal is to exert power over a fanbase by making them accept something they don't want to.

I shall now forever regret not having this piece of information during Thomasgate
What is Thomasgate?

rick Priestley has said it repeatedly and he's the creator of warhammer that it is not even remotely satirical and it is literally just the tabletop game
Priestly is fooling himself. 2000AD comics were a big part of the influence for early 40K and that was largely satire. The Arbites are lifted from Judge Dredd, Priestly co-authored the book that had an Inquisitor modelled on the Tom Baker Doctor Who named Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau. And you had army/setting books for orks titled Ere We Go and blatantly modelled on British hooligan culture. There was a tonne of satire in early WH40K and undeniably it's acquired more satirical traits over the years.

Susan Sontag Jewish fiend that she was-is correct here.
Susan Sontag once said "True art has the capacity to make us nervous". Given how disturbed many Progressives are by the setting and literature, I'd say WH40K certainly meets the requirement!

The real true reason WH40K upsets them so much isn't because Astartes are all male, it isn't even because the Imperium of Man is Fascist. It's deeper and more fundamental still. It's because WH40K indulges in Tragedy, in the classical dramatic sense. When you read the 40 or so books of the Horus Heresy, you know how it will end and you know it will not end well. The heroes are doomed and they are doomed by their own essential character. Perterabo will forever long for his father's love and his siblings respect and will out of pride turn against those he feels have spurned him. Magnus will always think he is smarter and more insightful and defy his father's prohibitions - delving into forbidden knowledge, defying his father's own warnings to come to his fathers aid and thus doom him. Jagathai will race across the galaxy in attempt to get there with his fleet before Horus and will always be too late. But despite doom being inevitable, Mankind will still fight against it. Even as civilisation teeters on the edge of collapse and almost certainly will tip over, legions of inquisitors and astartes and common soldiers and hive workers all labour to their deaths for one giant last "No!" to the Universe. They're Ahab against the White Whale and "from Hell's Heart I stab at thee; for Hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee".

That's why they really hate the setting on a fundamental level. Because they're true goal is demoralisation, to break people's spirit. And the message of WH40K isn't "we can win", it's "we defy you."

"The planet broke before the Guard did."

Maybe they'll destroy the whole world and everything we love but the guard will not yield.

That's strength. And they can't stand it.
 
What is Thomasgate?
Nothing important. I was kicked out of (another) group for taking the piss out of a seriously posted article lecturing the assembled mummies that Thomas the tank engine was facist and we must all discard our Thomas the tank engine toys and books, lest we wrongthink.
Just another day in modern child rearing. It’s not even the dumbest reason I’ve ever been ejected
 
Nothing important. I was kicked out of (another) group for taking the piss out of a seriously posted article lecturing the assembled mummies that Thomas the tank engine was facist and we must all discard our Thomas the tank engine toys and books, lest we wrongthink.
Just another day in modern child rearing. It’s not even the dumbest reason I’ve ever been ejected
How in the living Fuck is Thomas the Tank Engine fascist? Was he driving to fucking Auschwitz?
 
How in the living Fuck is Thomas the Tank Engine fascist? Was he driving to fucking Auschwitz?
I put the link in the post a while back, but the Tl:dr is that the island of Sodor is a facist dystopia because stuff runs on time and people work hard and are accountable and learn from their mistakes.
These are not serious people. It’s heresy really.
 
I put the link in the post a while back, but the Tl:dr is that the island of Sodor is a facist dystopia because stuff runs on time and people work hard and are accountable and learn from their mistakes.
These are not serious people. It’s heresy really.
Found it and will have a read. Insanity. Next they'll be telling me Ivor the Engine is capitalist and the dragon was an oppressed worker.
 
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or Orks (who technically lack gender)
They're fungi, so everything about them is strange, just like real fungi.

They're surprisingly well thought out for being the xeno-est of xenos who make machines work just by believing they work, and somehow don't piss off chaos unless they punch it in the face. I don't think any Orks are as blessed as Tuska's waaugh who ended up at Khorne's citadel, sprout again every day and entertain the blood god by kicking his demon's asses until they die.
 
They're surprisingly well thought out for being the xeno-est of xenos who make machines work just by believing they work
Okay, I have to sperg because this is something that drives me crazy. In early lore orks were established to have ancient technical knowledge imparted to them by their progenitors encoded in their DNA. That's why orks can be brutish thugs yet some of their number (Mekaniacs) get sudden visions of things they must build and set about it. The resulting creations are crude and sometimes work on principles that are astonishing advanced or incomprehensible to others (like Shokk Attak Gun), but they were never magic.

They also painted vehicles red because they believed that red ones go faster. Which was a joke in the old Ere We Go rulebook. At some point some wag said / came up with the idea that because of collective ork belief and psychic powers being a real thing in the WH40K universe, red vehicles actually did go a little bit faster.

Some literalists binary thinkers have with every year extended this further to the point that they now think orks can pick up a wooden carved gun and have it magically fire bullets because the ork believes it can.

I hate the meme that "ork technology works through belief" and I hate especially that in various small ways this has started to creep into canon. Orks en masse can influence things via the collective weight of their belief. They are not and never have been god like beings that warp reality to whatever they will and this "technology works if they believe it works" literalism frustrates me to no end. It all grew from an autistic lack of ability to process nuance.

Apologies for directing all of this at you.
 
At some point some wag said / came up with the idea that because of collective ork belief and psychic powers being a real thing in the WH40K universe,
Do Orks have much in the way of psychic powers? I never thought that much about it because they don’t seem to use any (on purpose anyway) but they must if they can influence reality. I could be missing a lot of info because I’m not really a tabletop player.
 
Do Orks have much in the way of psychic powers? I never thought that much about it because they don’t seem to use any (on purpose anyway) but they must if they can influence reality. I could be missing a lot of info because I’m not really a tabletop player.
Yeah, they have dedicated psykers, the Weirdboyz, who have a nasty habit of their heads literally exploding (and potentially taking anyone near them with them) whenever things get too rowdy among the Boyz on account of all the WAAAAGH energies in the air.

You need to think of Orks not as anything obeying what we considering humanly possible but instead an inhuman force of nature on its own level, no different from an avalanche or an entire mob's worth of Milwall hooligans soused up after a pub crawl and looking for trouble. And sometimes really weird, bizarre, almost unexplainable things happen during events of that scale.

As to what @Overly Serious was talking about, think of the WAAAGH not as outright breaking reality but the Orks putting their thumb on the scales of probability and plausibility. The Tau actually managed to reverse-engineer some of the stuff they salvaged from Ork vehicle wreckage to create the Repulsor Impact Field, but they've only managed to assemble a single working example due to the sheer levels of mad science involved in Orknology.
BECAUSE THE EMPEROR DEMANDS IT.


CADIA STANDS.
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Pick your universe of choice, because its probably going to be equally applicable in all of them.
 
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