Law Will the Second Amendment Die in the Second Circuit? - In wake of Rhode Island getting its insane magazine ban held up, this is interesting

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Is the Second United States Circuit going to be where the Second Amendment goes to die? We ask because two cases are going to come before the circuit riders early next year asking whether New Yorkers have what the Constitution — in some of its plainest language — calls the right not only to keep but also to bear arms. Two cases, on the Empire State’s law abridging these rights, will go before panels of the 2nd Circuit as early as January.

This is shaping up as a test of whether the appellate courts will tolerate defiance of the Supreme Court by New York Democrats. The cases arose in response to legislation signed by Governor Hochul July 1. That was after the landmark vindication of the Second Amendment in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. That ruling struck down New York’s restrictive gun permit policies, only to have Democrats issue a new raft of restrictions.

As we had anticipated, New York Democrats tried to exploit a possible ambiguity in the Bruen ruling over “sensitive places” where gun-carrying rights can be constitutionally limited. Justice Thomas’ ruling observed that schools, polling places, and courthouses were historically places where “weapons were altogether prohibited,” and so “modern regulations” limiting guns in such “sensitive places are constitutionally permissible.”

That said, Justice Thomas warned against going too far. New York couldn’t, for example, make “the island of Manhattan” a “sensitive place.” The Democrats ignored this warning. The list of sensitive places they created covers vast swaths of the state, the AP says, including “places where people have gathered for public protests,” as well as places of worship, libraries, parks, the transit system — and a mockingly expanded definition of Times Square.

The Democrats also imposed a new set of requirements on New Yorkers who seek a permit to bear a firearm. The old law, struck down by Bruen, forced residents to prove “proper cause” to get permission to carry a gun. Now, residents are required to show they have “good moral character,” undergo extensive training, and turn over to state investigators their social media account details. Are such steps required to exercise any other civil liberty?

Efforts of the Democrats to defy Bruen are on a par with the “massive resistance” across the South to the Supreme Court’s Brown v. Board of Education ruling ordering the integration of public schools. New York’s Second Amendment advocates took to the courts. Two federal district judges — Glenn Suddaby at Syracuse and John Sinatra at Buffalo — have struck down parts of the Democrats’ new gun law as unconstitutional.

Following Justice Thomas’ reasoning in Bruen, Judges Suddaby and Sinatra sought to find historical precedent for the restrictions in the Democrats’ law. The regulations were found wanting. There was no example in the historical record, Judge Suddaby observed, for turning an entire neighborhood, like Times Square, into a “gun-free zone.” Even the New York Times saw that the enlarged boundary “defies both common sense and lived experience.”

Judge Sinatra took aim at the new law’s ban on guns in houses of worship. New York offered 19th-century examples. Judge Sinatra called them “outliers,” finding the ban “inconsistent with the Nation’s historical traditions,” and “infringing on the right to keep and bear arms in public for self-defense.” He also balked at the state’s effort to exclude guns from, say, stores, unless they put up a sign saying guns are permitted.
Judge Suddaby groused that the hastily written law was “a wish list of exercise-inhibiting restrictions glued together by a severability clause.” We imagined, when New York appealed to the riders of the Second Circuit, the lower court rulings honoring the Bruen ruling would be speedily vindicated. Yet both rulings have been put on hold by the riders pending full arguments in the cases. It doesn’t bode well for the Second Amendment in New York.
 
Disagree there, people who like their guns don't need doompilled, they already have a vested interest in fighting stuff like this that they know targets them.

I think most people woe-as-me'ing over this are people who don't own guns, use guns or really care about guns except obliquely.

The doompilling is more of a danger of making us apathetic so we ignore just-as-totalitarian laws being passed by the same people that go unnoticed until already in phase I implementation because they target something nobody is passionate about - like being able to burn firewood at home if they want to.
In that sense you got a point, you see a lot of that tactic in Europe over speech. People say they care, but really they don't. Still I take some comfort that sales have soared for first timers, just check out Smith and Wesson in 2020. We're going to have a lot more people get involved, even if some are flakey.
 
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I own and use guns. I won't PL beyond that.

Doesn't change the fact that guns didn't stop COVID lockdowns, guns did nothing to stop The Steal, and it wasn't the Fudds that showed up at Kenosha.

A major reason is that the Feds have been *extremely* effective at stopping armed Americans from organizing. The right to form militias is a much deeper threat to tyranny than the right to any specific armament. And that's the right that the feds have completely neutralized. Fudds will donate to lobbyists, rally at the state capitol, and write their Congressman to protect overpriced range toys, but the right to actually *bear* those arms, which is about the right to muster and organize, is for all intents and purposes gone.

If a masked gang showed up to a frontier town in 1870 with masks and firebombs, it would have ended a lot differently than it did in 2020.
 
I own and use guns. I won't PL beyond that.

Doesn't change the fact that guns didn't stop COVID lockdowns, guns did nothing to stop The Steal, and it wasn't the Fudds that showed up at Kenosha.

A major reason is that the Feds have been *extremely* effective at stopping armed Americans from organizing. The right to form militias is a much deeper threat to tyranny than the right to any specific armament. And that's the right that the feds have completely neutralized. Fudds will donate to lobbyists, rally at the state capitol, and write their Congressman to protect overpriced range toys, but the right to actually *bear* those arms, which is about the right to muster and organize, is for all intents and purposes gone.

If a masked gang showed up to a frontier town in 1870 with masks and firebombs, it would have ended a lot differently than it did in 2020.
The red flag laws have resulted in many Ruby Ridge showdowns that don’t get reported by the media, including conservative media. When Virginia basically threatened to ban all guns a couple years back, the protestors decided the best way to fight back was relentless promotion of gays and pee oh cees who were gun owners. Northam and Virginia Democrats were mostly successful and the response from protesters was to declare victory that they didn’t lose 100% of gun rights, just 90% of them.

There will never be a ban on guns but the powers that be will rely on lawfare, using banks to deny loans to gun manufacturers, and insurance companies dropping you or making special high premium carveouts. Admittedly the eradication of the second amendment will be a much slower boil than the fourth amendment which disappeared without a trace due to the PATRIOT Act and the first amendment that is actively being chipped away as we speak. Ultimately the elite need the second amendment for private security needs once we turn into a mix of Brazil and South Africa so there will never be a total ban on guns, they’re just going to make it prohibitively expensive to own one, like houses now, cars in the near future, etc.
 
The red flag laws have resulted in many Ruby Ridge showdowns that don’t get reported by the media, including conservative media. When Virginia basically threatened to ban all guns a couple years back, the protestors decided the best way to fight back was relentless promotion of gays and pee oh cees who were gun owners. Northam and Virginia Democrats were mostly successful and the response from protesters was to declare victory that they didn’t lose 100% of gun rights, just 90% of them.

There will never be a ban on guns but the powers that be will rely on lawfare, using banks to deny loans to gun manufacturers, and insurance companies dropping you or making special high premium carveouts. Admittedly the eradication of the second amendment will be a much slower boil than the fourth amendment which disappeared without a trace due to the PATRIOT Act and the first amendment that is actively being chipped away as we speak. Ultimately the elite need the second amendment for private security needs once we turn into a mix of Brazil and South Africa so there will never be a total ban on guns, they’re just going to make it prohibitively expensive to own one, like houses now, cars in the near future, etc.

Right, let's add to the list credit card companies using point-of-sale flagging to shut down firearms purchases. Where's the uprising?

If the left was smart, they'd leave the Fudd cannons alone. Or maybe that's the tactic, every so often, make noise about banning pistol grips and 30-rd magazines so that people don't pay attention to all the other rights they've taken away.
 
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All doompilling does is stop the average man from bringing these lawsuits to court, and forming groups that have enough money to do so. This is psychological warfare as much as lawfare. Personally in my life, I've accelerated my purchase of guns due to the laws and looting of 2020, I've helped changed people's minds, and I've seen first hand the massive wave of first time gun owners. We're winning, we just can't fall for the propaganda.

We have to be very careful of distinguishing between true doom and ideological/classic shilling. The favorite tactic in debates about censorship (content in fictional media esp) is to come in claiming to be an "ally" against censorship who always seems to feel *strongly* about how this specific case is overblown/inconsequential/not censorship and protests greatly against any further discussion. (often resorting to mockery, name calling or even mods to try and silence debate)

We see the same thing with any attempts, EVER, to start up a non-correct-cause campaign, message drive or even a simple petition. Out of the woodwork come "like minded allies" to ridicule and warn against the futile efforts to push back in any organized way. Meanwhile the left and prog radicals have been getting away with it successfully for decades. (as we've seen, all it takes is the smallest hint of controversy or bad press to get companies to fold) What's most frustrating is that media and fiction censorship would be the easiest things to target for fans since there isn't allowed an "overt" war against fanservice. They can't scream and shout "nazi" or anything.. Just passive aggressively continue to try to mock fans for caring. (about their own efforts to change things OC)
 
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If, in 2016, I had correctly predicted everything that is happening in 2022, right down to the GOP declaring a spending bill that has no money for border security and lots for war "accomplishes all our priorities," you would have called me a "doompiller."

I'm all for doing things. What the Trump era proved is that the GOP's excuses were lies. They never wanted to win, and the party has to be purged. We have to start at the precinct level and work up.
 
The Bill of Rights is not worth the paper it's printed on. We are already long past the point of shooty, shooty, bang, bang.

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The Bill of Rights is not worth the paper it's printed on. We are already long past the point of shooty, shooty, bang, bang.

View attachment 4124697
We may be long past the point, but things are still good enough that folks aren’t planning to get the nooses for very specific people.

Considering how much the 2nd Amendment has been cut down, I don't think the Constitution is considered much more than a suggestion by the government these days. There's nothing in the Constitution preventing you from owning a machine gun, that's entirely the National Firearms Act, which should be considered totally unconstitutional, but somehow isn't.
Has anyone tried to get the NFA declared unconstitutional?
 
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