Windows 12 - Intel's 14th-gen Meteor Lake-S desktop to support the unannounced OS

[Toolbox]

I gave that Bing AI chat a try recently. It's completely worthless. It's not even as good as Siri was when it was new, and I think it might be Smarterchild-tier. It just gave me a lot of "I don't know about (my query), but here are some things I found by searching" kind of responses. Weirdly tone-deaf polite, too, in that pajeet kind of way.

All that power of Azure, yet they can't make a chatbot worth its salt.

Since Microsoft essentially has full access to chatgpt from what I understand there's no way the brokeness of the bing ai isn't due to them doubling if not tripling down on the censorship they've done to chat. Chat at its peak is very intelligent and useful for learning several subjects. It's conversational ability and ways it can adapt to what you want are second to none versus other competitors. But then they slapped multitudes of filters onto it over the past few months and now it's trash in several respects. Happens whenever a neural net is forced to be doubleplus good.

 

[WTBOnlineFather]

Maybe Linux will grow once the community gives up and lets it become a second windows

Maybe it will grow, but it will definitely also turn to shit, and I would rather keep a good OS with many alternatives for any software component even if that means only a .1% of autists will use it on their desktop. I encourage everyone who disagrees to keep using windows and all its neat little improvements M$ does out of love for its customers.

 

[Overly Serious]

For fuck sake - why can't Microsoft leave well alone? W10 is a decent product barring the intrusiveness of web search in the start menu which is a pain to get rid of. W11 has been a step down in every regard. Quite literally the only positive changes have been nested virtualization support and some refinements in Direct Memory Access. Neither of which are on the radar of the vast majority of users and both of which could have been brought into W10 more easily. I have a Surface laptop that installed W11. I let it because I wanted to get used to W11. EVERY part of the OS is slower now. It's not preconceptions - I wish I had done accurate timings of what it was like before so I could post some numbers. Start menu, file explorer loading, browser starting up, sorting images in a folder. The whole thing is WORSE. Plus the crappy Start menu which keeps moving things around. I have a dozen or so applications I use on here. In W10 I can have a full screen start menu with everything laid out statically. And I can group things in ways that make sense to me - VM and Docker software in this block, Office applications in this. Muscle memory and the system responsiveness made it a fast way to get what I wanted. Now I press the Windows key, slight pause and then crappy jumble of a subset of applications in the way Windows thinks is best for me. Sure, I can click on All Apps which just gets me a very long alphabetical list I have to scroll through.

It's ugly, it's crap, it still has barely visible grey on grey scroll bars that everybody thinks they have to do to appease the ghost of Steve Jobs. I hate it.

And now it's going to get worse?

My desktop is being switched over to GNU/Linux. Probably Debian. The laptop I haven't decided on yet. Windows is the better OS in most ways but MS are forcing stupid critical flaws into it and a critical flaw is exactly that - critical. It means that no matter how good everything else is about the OS I can't use it.

Same with the Surface Pro. Very good device. Responsive, too. OneNote is fine and primary reason to own a SurfacePro. So what do they do? Gimp the software so that it can only save your notebooks to their cloud-based onedrive system on their servers. Critical flaw - it doesn't matter how good everything else is about the device or how good OneNote is as a note-taking and planning tool. You can only use it if you give your files to Microsoft to host. And I know I'm not the only one this is a deal breaker for because I've seen reviews online that mention it.

MS are their own worst enemy. But hey, some department in MS has to show they're "innovating" or else they'll get laid off. So they'll keep introducing changes even when those changes make it worse.

FUCK Microsoft!

Maybe it will grow, but it will definitely also turn to shit, and I would rather keep a good OS with many alternatives for any software component even if that means only a .1% of autists will use it on their desktop. I encourage everyone who disagrees to keep using windows and all its neat little improvements M$ does out of love for its customers.

Linux and Unix in general are not good OSs. They're old-fashioned and awkward. That is why I hate MS so much because they screw up what WOULD be the best OS otherwise. GNU/Linux has a crappy file permission system with an ugly as fuck bolt-on ACL system which is an afterthought used by hardly anybody and liked only by those who have never used ACLs on Windows. Bash is archaic - MS ripped off everything good about it and created PowerShell which is vastly better. The entire GNU ecosystem is riddled with archaic tools wildly inconsistent with each other and wired together with text mungling. GNU/Linux is not an object orientated OS and any modern OS should be. And the sole attempt to move it towards being one which is like trying to turn a motorbike into a truck, is Poeterring's SystemD. An abomination rightly hated by most GNU/Linux users.

What we need is a ground-up OS that is like Windows, but not owned by Microsoft. An Open Source Windows would be a joy to use.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

What we need is a ground-up OS that is like Windows, but not owned by Microsoft. An Open Source Windows would be a joy to use.

i mean, there's this, but it's been in alpha for a bajillion years and only works on VMs

Front Page

ReactOS is a free, opensource reimplementation of windows

reactos.org

 

[Miller]

While it's true you can't opt-out of the buttplug, they're still gracious enough to include the lube for free as long as you have a Microsoft All-Access Pass with the Xbox Live Gold and Gamepass options. So it's really not going to be that bad. If you don't have those then it's your responsibility to work on having a stronger butthole.

To be honest the buttplug beats the two-factor authentification and having to log-in with a strong password.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

I hate the Antichrist.

I am not gonna fucking update anything. It's painfully obvious they are pushing this shit so they can go full 1984 on people and demand everyone have everything they do under 24/7 surveillance to a point even the 2002 NSA would think is excessive.

Normies better wake the fuck up with Linux already. Valve unironically has done more to kill the Microsoft monopoly with their Proton stuff than most other "windows killer" pushes before.

 

[The Ugly One]

Maybe it will grow, but it will definitely also turn to shit, and I would rather keep a good OS with many alternatives for any software component even if that means only a .1% of autists will use it on their desktop. I encourage everyone who disagrees to keep using windows and all its neat little improvements M$ does out of love for its customers.

The only way Linux becomes a mainstream OS is if a large corporation makes it into part of a vertically integrated system for selling hardware and applications. You know, like Google already did with it in the mobile space, and is trying to do in the laptop space. It's hardly a path to having less spyware up your asshole than Windows does.

Normies better wake the fuck up with Linux already. Valve unironically has done more to kill the Microsoft monopoly with their Proton stuff than most other "windows killer" pushes before.

Got bad news for you you're switching from MS to Valve to avoid getting spied on. Steam retains the right to scrap your chats for data and sell it to third parties. See 3.3 here:

https://store.steampowered.com/privacy_agreement/

 

[Inafune Fanfiction]

I hate the Antichrist.

I am not gonna fucking update anything. It's painfully obvious they are pushing this shit so they can go full 1984 on people and demand everyone have everything they do under 24/7 surveillance to a point even the 2002 NSA would think is excessive.

Normies better wake the fuck up with Linux already. Valve unironically has done more to kill the Microsoft monopoly with their Proton stuff than most other "windows killer" pushes before.

normies aint gonna do shit. Slacktivism never works lmao.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

Steam chat spying is a lot less egregious than the entire PC down to it's bare metal being spyied on by the OS itself.

Also if normies won't leave the MS cuckshed they have no right to later complain about how much they hate it.

 

[The Ugly One]

For fuck sake - why can't Microsoft leave well alone? W10 is a decent product barring the intrusiveness of web search in the start menu which is a pain to get rid of. W11 has been a step down in every regard. Quite literally the only positive changes have been nested virtualization support and some refinements in Direct Memory Access. Neither of which are on the radar of the vast majority of users and both of which could have been brought into W10 more easily. I have a Surface laptop that installed W11. I let it because I wanted to get used to W11. EVERY part of the OS is slower now. It's not preconceptions - I wish I had done accurate timings of what it was like before so I could post some numbers. Start menu, file explorer loading, browser starting up, sorting images in a folder. The whole thing is WORSE. Plus the crappy Start menu which keeps moving things around. I have a dozen or so applications I use on here. In W10 I can have a full screen start menu with everything laid out statically. And I can group things in ways that make sense to me - VM and Docker software in this block, Office applications in this. Muscle memory and the system responsiveness made it a fast way to get what I wanted. Now I press the Windows key, slight pause and then crappy jumble of a subset of applications in the way Windows thinks is best for me. Sure, I can click on All Apps which just gets me a very long alphabetical list I have to scroll through.

It's ugly, it's crap, it still has barely visible grey on grey scroll bars that everybody thinks they have to do to appease the ghost of Steve Jobs. I hate it.

Flat design is cancer.

And now it's going to get worse?

My desktop is being switched over to GNU/Linux. Probably Debian. The laptop I haven't decided on yet. Windows is the better OS in most ways but MS are forcing stupid critical flaws into it and a critical flaw is exactly that - critical. It means that no matter how good everything else is about the OS I can't use it.

Same with the Surface Pro. Very good device. Responsive, too. OneNote is fine and primary reason to own a SurfacePro. So what do they do? Gimp the software so that it can only save your notebooks to their cloud-based onedrive system on their servers. Critical flaw - it doesn't matter how good everything else is about the device or how good OneNote is as a note-taking and planning tool. You can only use it if you give your files to Microsoft to host. And I know I'm not the only one this is a deal breaker for because I've seen reviews online that mention it.

Cloud/SaaS is the antichrist. I do not want all my shit on my 364 KB virtual drive on your servers. I want all my shit on my inexpensive 2 TB SSD. I will move it to your tiny, stupid, internet drive when I want it there, which is never. I like how the hardware vendors are introducing NVMe drives while the software companies are trying to replace your lighting-fast PCIe connections with FUCKING ETHERNET adkflja;sdgha;ghjer;lkjhgae;lkj;rlghkaja;hk

MS are their own worst enemy. But hey, some department in MS has to show they're "innovating" or else they'll get laid off. So they'll keep introducing changes even when those changes make it worse.

FUCK Microsoft!


Linux and Unix in general are not good OSs. They're old-fashioned and awkward. That is why I hate MS so much because they screw up what WOULD be the best OS otherwise. GNU/Linux has a crappy file permission system with an ugly as fuck bolt-on ACL system which is an afterthought used by hardly anybody and liked only by those who have never used ACLs on Windows. Bash is archaic - MS ripped off everything good about it and created PowerShell which is vastly better. The entire GNU ecosystem is riddled with archaic tools wildly inconsistent with each other and wired together with text mungling. GNU/Linux is not an object orientated OS and any modern OS should be. And the sole attempt to move it towards being one which is like trying to turn a motorbike into a truck, is Poeterring's SystemD. An abomination rightly hated by most GNU/Linux users.

What we need is a ground-up OS that is like Windows, but not owned by Microsoft. An Open Source Windows would be a joy to use.

An open source Windows would just be a shitpile where the only things that worked well are things that software engineers think are interesting and important. The reason Windows is, as you said, better than desktop Linux for most things is there's this long tail of tasks you need to do for a really solid platform that nobody is going to work on unless they have to in order to keep the paycheck coming in.

The only way somebody challenges Microsoft in the home OS space is if they commit to supporting as much commercial Windows software as possible and bundle it into a really sexy laptop. Some sort of half-assed Wine bottling isn't enough. They need to ensure everybody's stuff from Adobe to Mathworks will work.

 

[tehpope]

Since Microsoft essentially has full access to chatgpt from what I understand there's no way the brokeness of the bing ai isn't due to them doubling if not tripling down on the censorship they've done to chat. Chat at its peak is very intelligent and useful for learning several subjects. It's conversational ability and ways it can adapt to what you want are second to none versus other competitors. But then they slapped multitudes of filters onto it over the past few months and now it's trash in several respects. Happens whenever a neural net is forced to be doubleplus good.

This is like in Robocop 2. Where they added all those PC (Politically Correct) directives into his system and he had to electrocute himself to get rid of them.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

I hate "cloud" everything so goddamn much they really do not want you to own anything it is absolutely fucking evil.

 

[Stoneheart]

so another 5 years of win 7?

 

[The Ugly One]

I hate "cloud" everything so goddamn much they really do not want you to own anything it is absolutely fucking evil.

the CEO: MOVE EVERYONE TO CLOUD IT'S GONNA BE FUCKIN BALLER BRO
QA: yeah so we can run faster on these cloud servers, but we're saving minutes of computation and adding hours of data transfer
the CEO: DID YOU SAY FASTER OH MY GOD USERS ARE GONNA LOVE THIS SHIT

 

[byuu]

the CEO: MOVE EVERYONE TO CLOUD IT'S GONNA BE FUCKIN BALLER BRO
QA: yeah so we can run faster on these cloud servers, but we're saving minutes of computation and adding hours of data transfer
the CEO: DID YOU SAY FASTER OH MY GOD USERS ARE GONNA LOVE THIS SHIT

Well, of course Microsoft wants to move everything to the cloud. This way they can run the actual software on a decent OS like Linux.

 

[Samuel Hyde]

For fuck sake - why can't Microsoft leave well alone? W10 is a decent product barring the intrusiveness of web search in the start menu which is a pain to get rid of. W11 has been a step down in every regard. Quite literally the only positive changes have been nested virtualization support and some refinements in Direct Memory Access. Neither of which are on the radar of the vast majority of users and both of which could have been brought into W10 more easily. I have a Surface laptop that installed W11. I let it because I wanted to get used to W11. EVERY part of the OS is slower now. It's not preconceptions - I wish I had done accurate timings of what it was like before so I could post some numbers. Start menu, file explorer loading, browser starting up, sorting images in a folder. The whole thing is WORSE. Plus the crappy Start menu which keeps moving things around. I have a dozen or so applications I use on here. In W10 I can have a full screen start menu with everything laid out statically. And I can group things in ways that make sense to me - VM and Docker software in this block, Office applications in this. Muscle memory and the system responsiveness made it a fast way to get what I wanted. Now I press the Windows key, slight pause and then crappy jumble of a subset of applications in the way Windows thinks is best for me. Sure, I can click on All Apps which just gets me a very long alphabetical list I have to scroll through.

It's ugly, it's crap, it still has barely visible grey on grey scroll bars that everybody thinks they have to do to appease the ghost of Steve Jobs. I hate it.

And now it's going to get worse?

My desktop is being switched over to GNU/Linux. Probably Debian. The laptop I haven't decided on yet. Windows is the better OS in most ways but MS are forcing stupid critical flaws into it and a critical flaw is exactly that - critical. It means that no matter how good everything else is about the OS I can't use it.

Same with the Surface Pro. Very good device. Responsive, too. OneNote is fine and primary reason to own a SurfacePro. So what do they do? Gimp the software so that it can only save your notebooks to their cloud-based onedrive system on their servers. Critical flaw - it doesn't matter how good everything else is about the device or how good OneNote is as a note-taking and planning tool. You can only use it if you give your files to Microsoft to host. And I know I'm not the only one this is a deal breaker for because I've seen reviews online that mention it.

MS are their own worst enemy. But hey, some department in MS has to show they're "innovating" or else they'll get laid off. So they'll keep introducing changes even when those changes make it worse.

FUCK Microsoft!


Linux and Unix in general are not good OSs. They're old-fashioned and awkward. That is why I hate MS so much because they screw up what WOULD be the best OS otherwise. GNU/Linux has a crappy file permission system with an ugly as fuck bolt-on ACL system which is an afterthought used by hardly anybody and liked only by those who have never used ACLs on Windows. Bash is archaic - MS ripped off everything good about it and created PowerShell which is vastly better. The entire GNU ecosystem is riddled with archaic tools wildly inconsistent with each other and wired together with text mungling. GNU/Linux is not an object orientated OS and any modern OS should be. And the sole attempt to move it towards being one which is like trying to turn a motorbike into a truck, is Poeterring's SystemD. An abomination rightly hated by most GNU/Linux users.

What we need is a ground-up OS that is like Windows, but not owned by Microsoft. An Open Source Windows would be a joy to use.

There already is an open source windows. It's called ReactOS. And it's not a joy to use. If you are able to install it on real hardware (most of the development team admits that its only stable in a VM) you'll experience random lock ups and blue screens like it's Windows 95 again. But if you're nostalgic for that experience then knock yourself out. And this isn't accidental either. Microshaft intentionally breaks compatibility and makes their APIs a clownish joke explicitly to prevent exactly what you want to do so they don't have to compete with another company.

Linux isn't UNIX - it's a UNIX. Linux has it's problems but there are other options that are still UNIX. But if you really hate UNIX based OSs that much then maybe try Haiku. It's open source and not UNIX and not Windows based so it doesn't have to worry about compatibility like React. But again best of luck to you when it comes installing it on a real computer. Maybe ArcaOS is more to your liking. A closed source clone of OS/2.

 

[ZMOT]

Maybe Linux will grow once the community stops fighting over stupid shit like:

How the computer starts (systemd)
How the computer shows images (wayland)
How the computer installs programs (Snaps/Flatpak)
And so many more!

the fighting is what makes linux work, otherwise you would have a subverted and neutered system decades ago. look at what systemd does, look who's pushing it. same for wayland, gnome and other shit - there's a reason people disagree and have to option to not use it or do their own thing.

besides, it's not like it makes any difference to end user anyway.

They also said Windows 8 was an improvement over Windows 7.

besides the powerpoint-startmenu it was, don't remember it being worse than win7 at least while still feeling slimmer somehow.

Linux and Unix in general are not good OSs. They're old-fashioned and awkward. That is why I hate MS so much because they screw up what WOULD be the best OS otherwise. GNU/Linux has a crappy file permission system with an ugly as fuck bolt-on ACL system which is an afterthought used by hardly anybody and liked only by those who have never used ACLs on Windows. Bash is archaic - MS ripped off everything good about it and created PowerShell which is vastly better. The entire GNU ecosystem is riddled with archaic tools wildly inconsistent with each other and wired together with text mungling. GNU/Linux is not an object orientated OS and any modern OS should be. And the sole attempt to move it towards being one which is like trying to turn a motorbike into a truck, is Poeterring's SystemD. An abomination rightly hated by most GNU/Linux users.

What we need is a ground-up OS that is like Windows, but not owned by Microsoft. An Open Source Windows would be a joy to use.

ironically all that applies to windows even more, where you can't even opt-out of getting throatfucked by nutelly and can only ask for more.

file permissions are a nothingburger since everything on windows runs as admin, guess what happens when you actually use proper account separation (as you should)? bash works and has been for decades, and if you don't like it simply use something else (yes, even powershell which got ported). windows still runs on 30 year old software and a clusterfuck of wildly different UI schemes. who cares about "object orientated" when it runs like ass and is ass to use?

 

[Overly Serious]

file permissions are a nothingburger since everything on windows runs as admin,

No it doesn't. Or else you're about to reply with some inaccurate definition of admin.

 

[seri0us]

I am not gonna fucking update anything. It's painfully obvious they are pushing this shit so they can go full 1984 on people and demand everyone have everything they do under 24/7 surveillance to a point even the 2002 NSA would think is excessive.

You're realising this now? My breaking point for Windows started six years ago because of how displeased I was that they wanted to go full-in with telemetry.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

You're realising this now? My breaking point for Windows started six years ago because of how displeased I was that they wanted to go full-in with telemetry.

I haven't used Windows at all for a good 3 years, I am saying it mostly because of old PCs I have around or relatives machines. I am forcing the people around me to swallow the penguin pill.

If my mother could figure out how to do her stuff on Mint there is nor excuse for normies.