Wokeness in Tech - (Rainbow-washed logo) Targeting bleeding-edge architectures to facilitate viral niches and strategize best-of-breed networks #BlackLivesMatter

[Least Concern]

In some weird way, a citizenship requirement is enough to yoke some teams back towards 90% white.

Do you think that would solve anything? I don't recall ever seeing a pajeet on a visa causing some sort of D&I-related trouble. It's almost always white Americans at the forefront of this stuff, with occasional black citizen who caught wind of the easy grift to be made by making the whiteys feel uncomfortable about themselves.

Come to think of it, I bet a company which did the opposite and only hired non-citizens would end up with far less wokeness than the Silicon Valley average.

 

[seri0us]

I don't recall ever seeing a pajeet on a visa causing some sort of D&I-related trouble.

Clearly you've never seen the street right outside of the workplace

 

[clownworld]

I don't recall ever seeing a pajeet on a visa causing some sort of D&I-related trouble.

Its less likely they are vocal about it. Very likely if they can manage to get involved with hiring interviews, will just simply apply the 'pajeet: hire, any other color: no hire' filter as much as they can get away with, which increases as you notice pajeets multiply like a bacteria at the org.

 

[Kosher Dill]

I don't recall ever seeing a pajeet on a visa causing some sort of D&I-related trouble.

The pajeets who are gunning for a visa will play along enthusiastically with whatever your corporate culture is, and the ones who aren't will just sit the whole thing out.
I've seen comical scenes of them dressing up in purple and rainbows for LGBTVHS Week when they quite obviously don't care at all. But they don't try to become woke inquisitors because they don't want to cause trouble. They just want to rack up participation points and score the visa.

 

[clownworld]

Unlikely tbh. Especially with how they been couching their language so far. They been very careful to frame this "work only, no personal politics involved on company time".

I'm less sure the the company will fail, however basedcamp as a product is now radioactive and the DEI pawns will come after it at every org that uses it. Most companies would rather switch than challenge this hegemony.

I find it telling that Basecamp found it cheaper to pay them to fuck off publically, rather than deal with it in a more quiet manner (letting contracts run out, simply promoting other non-problem candidates). My gut feeling was that there was an attempted coup behind the scenes, or at least some very ugly confrontations.

DEI is a mass coup, so you are right. Its unclear if they actually made an analytic calculation as to how many people they would want to lose, and how this fight would cost them in customers. Time will tell. Having some familiarity with how these orgs are run, the payouts are likely a calculation on gut feeling and the amount of damage could be extremely high. Running basecamp has now become verboten, the only valid excuse being naiveté, akin to not knowing Joe Rogan is now hate speech and NSFW.

Every one of those people who took the buyout will have it publicly known, because of their own actions, that they're too fucking retarded to employ as they do nothing but sperg about politics at work.

I wish you were right but this perspective is way to logical/autistic. These people will put this exit into their cover letters, they are currently getting inundated with 0 interview job offers on twitter. Tech is swarming with mediocre individuals with hiring powers looking to add some meat padding around their position and maybe get some virtue points along the way.

 

[Bongocat]

Is anyone here looking for a job in tech right now? Are you having trouble getting responses back from American companies? I didn't want to make a whole-ass thread about this, but this is really starting to worry me and I want to know if it's a wider thing. I've been applying for jobs (about 3 a week) for the past 2 months or so. These are positions I know that I am qualified for and I have the history to prove that. I've gotten one or two responses back and the rest are just dead silence. No rejection letter. I just never heard back.

This was not like this at all when I was applying 6 years ago. I had zero experience and of course I got rejections back, but at least I got something back. Despite the rejections I did get a job within a month or so.

I can't help but think it has something to do with the critical race theory stuff that's now embedded in tech companies everywhere. Everybody includes that "equal opportunity" disclaimer but their HR (edit: public relations retard) will be on twitter shouting "we prioritize BIPOC" applications or some shit. These are smaller/mid sized software companies.

 

[malt ipecac]

Is anyone here looking for a job in tech right now? Are you having trouble getting responses back from American companies? I didn't want to make a whole-ass thread about this, but this is really starting to worry me and I want to know if it's a wider thing. I've been applying for jobs (about 3 a week) for the past 2 months or so. These are positions I know that I am qualified for and I have the history to prove that. I've gotten one or two responses back and the rest are just dead silence. No rejection letter. I just never heard back.

This was not like this at all when I was applying 6 years ago. I had zero experience and of course I got rejections back, but at least I got something back. Despite the rejections I did get a job within a month or so.

I can't help but think it has something to do with the critical race theory stuff that's now embedded in tech companies everywhere. Everybody includes that "equal opportunity" disclaimer but their HR will be on twitter shouting "we prioritize BIPOC" applications or some shit. These are smaller/mid sized software companies.

Very similar experience here. It's fucked up that they ask those questions as part of the application process. I can't decide if it's better to:

• "Choose not to specify"
• Indicate that I'm a disabled otherkin of two or more races
• Accept responsibility for murdering George Floyd

Anecdotally: it's common for seemingly well-qualified people I know to send 50-100 applications for every interview they get.

 

[Bongocat]

Very similar experience here. It's fucked up that they ask those questions as part of the application process. I can't decide if it's better to:

• "Choose not to specify"
• Indicate that I'm a disabled otherkin of two or more races
• Accept responsibility for murdering George Floyd

Anecdotally: it's common for seemingly well-qualified people I know to send 50-100 applications for every interview they get.

I haven't been explicitly asked about that. Is that a thing at larger companies? Though my name is about as white as it gets. I would not need to check a box.

I know interviews are hard to come by, but responses never have been.

EDIT: I just went back and checked on one of the "application portal"s that a lot of these companies are using that I've been putting resumes and cover letters into. Their blog is all diversity and anti-racism. I'm starting to doubt my application ever reaches the company to begin with.

OH I get it... you don't have to tick a race box because it comes in background checks. Apparently that's all automated now too.

 

[malt ipecac]

I haven't been explicitly asked about that. Is that a thing at larger companies? Though my name is about as white as it gets. I would not need to check a box.

I know interviews are hard to come by, but responses never have been.

EDIT: I just went back and checked on one of the "application portal"s that a lot of these companies are using that I've been putting resumes and cover letters into. Their blog is all diversity and anti-racism. I'm starting to doubt my application ever reaches the company to begin with.

OH I get it... you don't have to tick a race box because it comes in background checks. Apparently that's all automated now too.

Okay, here's my hypothesis of what's happening.

A typical hiring process works like this:

• Initial screening of applicants by literal retard (i.e., an algorithm or HR)
• Based on the company's diversity quotas/goals, said retard picks out a set of ~5 candidates and sends them to a hiring manager, who actually has some idea of what a good applicant would look like
• Hiring manager(s)/other non-HR employee(s) interview the set of candidates; either one of the candidates gets a thumbs up or they all get turned down and the hiring manager asks for another next set from aforementioned retard

The initial screening is retarded in any case, but if it's retarded in some way that's systemically biased against you, you're SOL. The solution to a perceived longstanding bias in one direction has not been an attempt to eliminate that bias, but instead to even things out by applying an opposite bias.

I think what ultimately matters is the diversity of hires, not of interviews or anything like that. So if HR's objective is to hire X disabled otherkins who belong to historically marginalized ethnic groups, and the hiring manager keeps saying "No, I can't hire any of these people," the process just repeats until they've met the quota.

 

[Bongocat]

I don't know what to do then except to just say fuck US companies and apply outside. I want to get out of here anyway since I don't think it's going to be too long before we start passing laws making all this much worse.

As an aside, I applied to two Dutch companies and they got back to me instantly.

 

[Besachf Jhakut]

Is anyone here looking for a job in tech right now? Are you having trouble getting responses back from American companies...?

This was not like this at all when I was applying 6 years ago. I had zero experience....

Does this imply you're still young? If 35 or over you want to hide that as much as possible.

I also suggest the approaches in this blog. As malt ipecac implies, the single most important thing is to get the attention of a hiring manager, HR is usually an net negative obstacle. Tied with that, find and research companies you want to work for, and demonstrate to the hiring manager you can solve their/his problems, add value to the company, the details depend on the type of company, the type of position you're aiming for and so on.

For research, in addition to the wokeness minefield which is a potential career ender or crimper, I'd avoid companies that use stack ranking for any purpose, Scrum if you're a software developer, and tied to that find a hiring manager advice avoid companies that hire people generically then randomly assign them to a position, without getting buy-in from your direct report; that often ends very poorly.

 

[Bongocat]

Does this imply you're still young?

Yes. No spring chicken but I'm not declining or anything.

I also suggest the approaches in this blog. As malt ipecac implies, the single most important thing is to get the attention of a hiring manager, HR is usually an net negative obstacle. Tied with that, find and research companies you want to work for, and demonstrate to the hiring manager you can solve their/his problems, add value to the company, the details depend on the type of company, the type of position you're aiming for and so on.

It's very doubtful that the companies I'm applying for have HR departments. These are specialized/boutique software firms and any kind of HR department they have is almost surely going to be outsourced. I'm not just tossing out applications, which is why it's been limited to 3 per week. I'm writing polished cover letters targeting their specific product and what I've done related to that + why I am qualified to work on it. No bullshit. I'm confident that I'm qualified for these positions because I've been in these positions.

I'd avoid companies that use stack ranking for any purpose,

Do you mean progressive stack ranking?

Scrum if you're a software developer, and tied to that find a hiring manager advice avoid companies that hire people generically then randomly assign them to a position, without getting buy-in from your direct report; that often ends very poorly.

I'm applying to small(ish) companies. They work with you pretty closely to get into a good fitting role. They just try to hire really qualified people and help mold them into a good fit for the company... at least that was the case. I have a feeling a lot's changed in the past year.

 

[AnOminous]

I can't help but think it has something to do with the critical race theory stuff that's now embedded in tech companies everywhere. Everybody includes that "equal opportunity" disclaimer but their HR will be on twitter shouting "we prioritize BIPOC" applications or some shit. These are smaller/mid sized software companies.

Just find some dumb coded way to imply you're a social or sexual or racial minority, that doesn't actually say you are, and get responses. They're virtue signaling, virtual signal back, and nobody actually cares. You're really an Indian, did you know that? The fact that you don't fuck on the first date means you're demisexual. Whatever.

 

[Syaoran Li]

Is anyone here looking for a job in tech right now? Are you having trouble getting responses back from American companies? I didn't want to make a whole-ass thread about this, but this is really starting to worry me and I want to know if it's a wider thing. I've been applying for jobs (about 3 a week) for the past 2 months or so. These are positions I know that I am qualified for and I have the history to prove that. I've gotten one or two responses back and the rest are just dead silence. No rejection letter. I just never heard back.

This was not like this at all when I was applying 6 years ago. I had zero experience and of course I got rejections back, but at least I got something back. Despite the rejections I did get a job within a month or so.

I can't help but think it has something to do with the critical race theory stuff that's now embedded in tech companies everywhere. Everybody includes that "equal opportunity" disclaimer but their HR (edit: public relations retard) will be on twitter shouting "we prioritize BIPOC" applications or some shit. These are smaller/mid sized software companies.

If things get too bad, file a lawsuit for discrimination. Even if it goes nowhere, it'll get their attention and scare them.

Even if corporations exalt CRT and above the law in this country, a lot of local courts are still staffed by Boomers and if it's a smaller or mid-sized company, a lawsuit's more likely to scare them.

Corporations fear lawsuits, especially smaller and mid-sized ones

 

[Bongocat]

Just find some dumb coded way to imply you're a social or sexual or racial minority, that doesn't actually say you are, and get responses. They're virtue signaling, virtual signal back, and nobody actually cares. You're really an Indian, did you know that? The fact that you don't fuck on the first date means you're demisexual. Whatever.

Believe me, I've considered it. I'd much rather just work outside the US than degrade myself like that. I feel like I should talk to some people who have done such things in case there's 'gotchas'.

 

[glow]

I don't know about USA but in EU recruitment consultants are often a good way to get offered direct to companies who are actually actively hiring as opposed to trawling for CVs. Midsize companies often have only a few positions going at any one time so you might just be unlucky. Source: I know management in companies that are recruiting for jobs that don't really exist just to find the 1 in 1000 developer who knows their whole stack perfectly.

 

[Besachf Jhakut]

I'd avoid companies that use stack ranking for any purpose,

Do you mean progressive stack ranking?

First popularized by GE, which is now a pale shadow of itself, while Google uses it for critical to your career promotions, normally it's used to fire what's theoretically your 10% worst employees. Every year. How it helped to gut Microsoft and turn it into a snake pit under Ballmer is something you should be able to easily find more on.

Also helped to wreck Intel, which is now failing at its prior core competency, being 1-3 generations in process technology ahead of their competition. For two nodes in succession, and there's no reason to believe they'll succeed in making economic chips smaller than their 14++++++++ etc. nm node. Diversity also played a role in this, a Pajeet was in charge when they tried to move to what they call 10 nm.

Stack ranking is not going to be an issue for the sort of companies you're applying to now, although it might be for the sort you might get offers from to do boring stuff. Although I suspect you know it's better to avoid companies where IT is a cost center.

What you're reporting is very disturbing. Could be enough programmers are also looking for work at these same companies you're either getting lost in tidal waves of applications or just can't compete with them, or with H-1B fake resumes? Are these companies feeling economic pressure? I'm retired, with my friends still in the field in niches where this sort of stuff doesn't apply so I don't have any good reading on how things are. Are you applying for jobs outside of Wokeistan?

Sounds like you're going to have to change something. To have a long term career without moving to management, consider trying to get a job requiring a serious security clearance? If you had embedded experience you ought to be able to make a lot of money right now due to the chip shortage, but that's a very messy field all around.

The U.K. is notorious for poor programmer salaries, so maybe the EU or elsewhere. Maybe TSMC even though you're in software, they're expanding a lot, came across mention of one guy getting head hunted for a 2 years in Taiwan followed by 2 years in the US arrangement and he's a software PM. It seems the island's long term electrical generation prospects are poor for them to make very many more fab lines on it.

 

[Bongocat]

First popularized by GE, which is now a pale shadow of itself, while Google uses it for critical to your career promotions, normally it's used to fire what's theoretically your 10% worst employees. Every year. How it helped to gut Microsoft and turn it into a snake pit under Ballmer is something you should be able to easily find more on.

Also helped to wreck Intel, which is now failing at its prior core competency, being 1-3 generations in process technology ahead of their competition. For two nodes in succession, and there's no reason to believe they'll succeed in making economic chips smaller than their 14++++++++ etc. nm node. Diversity also played a role in this, a Pajeet was in charge when they tried to move to what they call 10 nm.

I see. No I can't imagine that's going to be practiced at the companies I'm applying to. They would be dead in no time. Small businesses generally do a pretty thorough job of vetting people from the start and your responsibilities can change day to day depending on what's needed (that's been my entire career up to this point). It's hard to 'rank' employees next to each other because hardly anybody does apples-to-apples the same thing.

Stack ranking is not going to be an issue for the sort of companies you're applying to now, although it might be for the sort you might get offers from to do boring stuff. Although I suspect you know it's better to avoid companies where IT is a cost center.

I've never worked in a big company, but I have lots of friends that do. I would frankly die doing what they do. It sounds like a mix of daily grind, office politics and low expectations.

What you're reporting is very disturbing. Could be enough programmers are also looking for work at these same companies you're either getting lost in tidal waves of applications or just can't compete with them, or with H-1B fake resumes? Are these companies feeling economic pressure?

H-1B seems unlikely at these type of companies since you don't see a lot of poos working there. Some, but they're not the big 'havens' like MS and Google. Application flood is possible, but everywhere I look says companies are "starved for engineers". That and most of these positions open have been listed for quite some time, so it doesn't seem like they're getting flooded with qualified applicants at least. I assume if they were feeling economic pressure they would just take the positions down.

I'm retired, with my friends still in the field in niches where this sort of stuff doesn't apply so I don't have any good reading on how things are. Are you applying for jobs outside of Wokeistan?

I assume you mean Cali/NY (and now Texas I'm sorry to say). Unfortunately, most jobs are based there no matter what they are for some ungodly reason. A few of them are not, but it hasn't made a difference. The common factor is that they use external recruiting companies to take applications (or at the very least just fill out forms) and forward them.

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to suspect the problem is with them. Their blogs are filled with "WHAT WE'RE DOING ABOUT DIVERSITY!". Rejections are one thing, but I think my applications are getting outright deleted. I have a friend that works at [REDACTED BECAUSE THE GUY WAS CARELESS -- DON'T PASTE YOUR WORK EMAILS IN SPYWARE CHAT PROGRAMS]. I should ask him his opinion on this.

-----

So ramzpaul is outlandishly full of shit, and I hesitate to even link him, but I'd like to know if anybody has credible information on this https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/1393415750635986945 (update: this guy is a retard... but the claim is directionally accurate)

-----

I have had a talk with my source (I don't want to out him, trust me bro). I'm not ready to dump emails or anything but I am walking away from this conversation extremely worried. Obviously it's not what Ramzpaul is saying but it's extreme enough that they're "working very hard" to make sure it's not illegal. I'll try to stay up on this as things develop. If you have friends who work at recruiting agencies I'd encourage you to talk to them. Apparently this is not a super big secret.

Long story short though, this is almost certainly the recruiter companies doing this.

 

[malt ipecac]

Long story short though, this is almost certainly the recruiter companies doing this.

When you say "recruiter companies," do you mean HR software vendors like Workday? Or job search sites like Linkedin/Indeed/etc.? Or something else?

 

[glow]

The U.K. is notorious for poor programmer salaries, so maybe the EU or elsewhere.

Lived and worked in both places. EU, specifically France and Spain are definitely worse, or at least was 10 years ago. The technical culture is generally poor I found but was just my experience in isolation - when's the last time you used a major French website?

UK is kind of OK in the financial sector unless you're comparing against USA salaries, nothing compares to that. The financial sector talks a big woke game for marketing purposes but at the C-level does often not give a single fuck and will hire whoever is good. If you are moving from USA and plan to return then you will want to consider financial sector because it's the only way you'll get a comparable salary. Housing looks crazy these days.

Personally I gave up on being a 100% programmer to get more money in management and hopefully retire early. A lot of programming is pretty boring to me these days anyway having done it for so long. I just code on my own time for my own enjoyment.