Working Designs / Game Arts thread - lunar, grandia, etc

[Maniacal Foreigner]

See also the reason Wild Arms 2 does not get a retranslation.

From what I could find on Mobygames, it looks like Lunar: Dragon Song on the DS was translated by the same guy as Wild Arms 2 (David Lakritz, who also helped with the translation on the original Grandia) or at least by his company (Language Automation Inc.). They're also credited for the translation on Evolution: The World of Sacred Device on the Dreamcast.
Funny how these things connect.

 

[ShitLurker]

See also the reason Wild Arms 2 does not get a retranslation.

I have it in my eternal bucketlist but have heard it's infamous for it's shitty localization. Is it still worth tackling?

 

[David Kirk Ginder]

I appreciate the lengths they went to in order to bring JRPGs that would otherwise likely never see the light of day in the West overseas, as well as include goodies such as soundtrack CDs, but the pop-culture references they would shoehorn into the scripts were an early symptom of the garbage localization trend that's in full swing today.

I definitely enjoyed them when I played them, but knowing now about how much Working Designs fucked with scripts, I'd probably be less charitable if I decided to replay any of those games today. At least they just pushed stupid jokes and not propaganda.

Working Designs localisations were absolute shit with stupid dated humour (like turning the guy from Alundra into a surfer dude).

Working Designs translations is basically the video game version of Joss Whedon/Marvel movie snark dialog. Their lolcalizations were somewhat forgivable because they mainly just inserted stupid outdated jokes or stupid outdated pop culture references. Woke liberal brainrot obviously wasn't a thing back then so there wasn't any progressive leftist malicious intent. And because back then Japanese games weren't as popular so people were just grateful to get them translated to English.

What's less forgivable (even back then) is that Working Designs seems to be one of the few localization companies that not only translate, but make tweaks to the gameplay usually with the goal of making the game "harder". Despite their intentions, they didn't actually make the game harder, just more annoying and/or time consuming. So not only do they think they're better than the original Japanese writers, they also think they're better than the original Japanese game devs.

Terrible localizations and Vic Ireland was a proto-lolcow. Still, I have to at least give them some props for bringing these games over when no one else was willing to touch them.

I'm just glad we live in an era where localizers don't go out of their way to maliciously butcher foreign games according to their personal sensibilities. Imagine if we still had to deal with that haha

I am almost certain that Vic Ireland would be a lolcow if social media existed back then. I don't know what kind of lolcow (eg narcissistic lolcow, Trump Derangement Syndrome lolcow etc).

I actually think we're getting a retranslation for this one simply because Vic Ireland owns the rights to the original English script and has been kind of unhinged when it comes to rereleases because he wants to be personally involved if they're using his script. That's why we didn't get Lunar on the Megadrive mini console in the US and Europe even though it was on the Japanese version.

This might give a small hint of Vic Ireland's brand of lolcow.

 

[Famous Actor]

As of writing there is a singular retranslation of a WD release, Silhouette Mirage (released by WD for PSX, linked patch is for JP-only Saturn version). This is what the translator had to say about the original WD script:

Spoiler: Comparisons

Seeing that WD's changes were more extensive than "replacing useless side dialogue with jokes" (in hindsight still pretty bad) that Vic always claimed was the limit has permanently soured me on them. This isn't even a Ghost Stories situation where the distributors were saddled w/ an aggressively Japanese kids show, and told to sell it to American adults (manchildren); WD sought out the Silhouette Mirage license the same way they sought out every other game they brought over to the west. And THIS is the "respect" they show to the game. For now only God knows what they've done to their other releases...
(e: Now that I think about it, for whatever reason Shining Wisdom got the WD treatment when it hit NA, but was retranslated by Sega's European offices for the PAL market. So that may be worth looking into.)

 

[Fcret]

There's a pretty good interview he did where you can kinda get a bead on what kind of guy Vic Ireland would be today.

GS: In your message board post, you said that because people bought Working Designs games and showed support for these things, we have "deluxe packs, pack-in soundtracks, better packaging, great hint guides, and better localizations in general." Is that the extent of Working Designs' legacy?

VI: I think "better localizations in general" is the most important contribution WD made. Once people played a WD role-playing game, no matter what they thought about the pop culture stuff that was packed into the early games, it changed them. They saw how moving and engaging an RPG could be when written in their native language well.

GS: On localization specifically, Working Designs was responsible for some groundbreaking work regarding localization. How much farther do you think localization needs to go? How much farther can it go?

VI: It's come a long way, but there are still way too many spelling and grammar errors in games. The worst offense, however, is flat characters you don't care about. Giving life to characters demands more than a straight translation. You must work in the spirit of the original, and that's a tough domain in which to exist, let alone master.
[...]

GS: As Working Designs showed that there was an American audience for many of its games, others began to take note and jump in the game. Currently, Mastiff, Atlus, NIS America, Agetec, Hot-B America all seem to specialize in somewhat niche, localized fare. Did the niche outgrow Working Designs? What kept the company from competing with these new players?

VI: Me, really. We were tied up, and I was obsessed with getting the three Gs approved. It made no sense to me that they were denied because they were so right for our market, and were exactly the kind of game we did that our fans liked. Until that was cleared, nothing else could be licensed. My hands were tied to get any more product by our majority shareholders. If I had cut and run, we could have been doing our usual two games a year in that time. Think of it, we could have done six games in the three years I wasted! But there's no guarantee any of those would have been approved either, since they would have been games that emphasized story and gameplay over graphics.

tl;dr "It's not our fault that publishers decided to stop using us and handle localizations in-house - we were just too good and cared too much about the final product!"

 

[HexFag]

Finished Grandia 2 a couple of days back and while I don't like it as much as Grandia 1, it's still a solid JRPG with a great combat system. I wish the game was harder so it was fully utilized though.

The OST is the most 2000s thing ever, the amen break in the middle of the mid-boss theme is so good.

 

[David Kirk Ginder]

VI: It's come a long way, but there are still way too many spelling and grammar errors in games. The worst offense, however, is flat characters you don't care about. Giving life to characters demands more than a straight translation. You must work in the spirit of the original, and that's a tough domain in which to exist, let alone master.

In current year politicized localizations, this basically means a personality change (eg feminine nurturing female becomes girlboss stereotype when translated to English)

VI: Absolutely. Even the mild statements I've made here have probably ruffled a few more. I have always been a gamer first and a politician second. I was there to get great games out that would have been left for dead in Japan until we got them. In the end, I think that absolutely hurt WD, but it wasn't clear how much until it was too late. As the industry filled with legions of MBAs that admit to playing games an hour a week (if that) to see what was hot, gamers in high-level positions became ever more rare. It's really screwed up the market.

Gamers and authentic nerds in high-level are still rare. Except the legions of MBAs have been replaced by Californian leftists.

GS: You specifically mentioned Japanese Xbox 360 role-playing games as an area with plenty of promise in the next generation. Why Xbox 360 RPGs in particular? And how successful do you think Microsoft's attempts to win over Japanese gamers will be this time around?

VI: I can't say which games because I don't want to jinx it. There are a number that have interested me, and I think MS is really committed to the gamer here and in Japan for this coming generation. I don't think MS will necessarily win this round in Japan, but I think they will make a substantially stronger showing. They now understand that they need to be hitting on all cylinders in Asia/US/Europe to make a big dent this next round and set themselves up to win in the generation after.

For a very short period of time, it looked like Xbox 360 was for Japanese game otakus with exclusive JRPG games like Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon, and games that were eventually ported to the PS3 later like Star Ocean 4 and Eternal Sonata. There was even a hardcore gamer audience when Cave (Japanese shoot 'em up game dev) released games on it like deathsmiles.

The Xbox brand has only gone downhill in Japan since then. Actually it failed in the beginning with the original fat Xbox. Imagine trying to sell a fat game console to slim Asians.

This is Victor Ireland's company that replaced Working Designs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaijinworks

The release history seems pretty sparse. Half of them RPGs, half of them ports.

 

[Fcret]

For a very short period of time, it looked like Xbox 360 was for Japanese game otakus with exclusive JRPG games like Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon, and games that were eventually ported to the PS3 later like Star Ocean 4 and Eternal Sonata. There was even a hardcore gamer audience when Cave (Japanese shoot 'em up game dev) released games on it like deathsmiles.

From what I understand, Xbox has always had a weirdly antagonistic attitude towards Japan even when they're publicly talking about trying to win over the Japanese. There's stories of Japanese devs coming out of meetings with the Xbox division so offended that they vow to never make anything on any Microsoft console.

Given the... origins of the Xbox, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some hardcore anti-Japanese autists in executive and management positions.

 

[CallmeCicada]

Was really great game and made me appreciate the art of high quality boobage.
View attachment 6453829

> Lead artist: Satoshi Urushihara
checks out.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Translation dated as fuck but I do laugh at shit like the Clinton reference. Idk. I can't help it.

Grandia 1 is fun so far. Going through that Typhoon wet rock place with the poison lakes. I just got water magic for Justin and Feena so I'm trying the level up magic trick but it's painful to go through. Is there an easier way lol. Having four party members is great. There is a guy on twitch and youtube who is slowly finding the original voice actors. He got Feena, Sue, and a few others. Its interesting because they had no idea the game had a resurgence.

Did not play the sequel yet but apparently they got Cam Clarke, Jennifer Hale, and......Jodi fucking Benson?!!! Holy shit.

 

[David Kirk Ginder]

From what I understand, Xbox has always had a weirdly antagonistic attitude towards Japan even when they're publicly talking about trying to win over the Japanese.

Sounds like a pattern of behavior among Westerners in the gaming industry (looking at you Assassin's Creed Shadows)

 

[HexFag]

Grandia 1 is fun so far. Going through that Typhoon wet rock place with the poison lakes. I just got water magic for Justin and Feena so I'm trying the level up magic trick but it's painful to go through. Is there an easier way lol. Having four party members is great. There is a guy on twitch and youtube who is slowly finding the original voice actors. He got Feena, Sue, and a few others. Its interesting because they had no idea the game had a resurgence.

For leveling water magic, if there's an obstacle and a place to save/heal nearby, I recommend getting intentionally hit, using heal magic since it levels water magic, and healing to replenish MP. They do magic leveling WAY better in the sequel but there are still some ways to easily cheese certain aspects of magic.

If you want to level earth magic, you're kind of SOL for the first couple of levels because all you really have is Diggin! The only benefit is it hits everyone and you get a good amount of XP per cast.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Losing hp by walking in dragon star on the ds

 

[Fcret]

Losing hp by walking in dragon star on the ds

I was actually willing to give Dragon Song a chance despite the negative reviews and bought it day one. The system was so bad and the story's pacing so mid that I don't think I made it more than three or four hours in. Also the system where you have to decide between getting loot and experience points made it intolerable, essentially doubling the amount of grinding you had to do.

It's a bit of a shame since it's technically a prequel to Silver Star and apparently has some interesting story beats later on but I couldn't be assed to get through it. Maybe there's a romhack out there to remove the annoying shit so I can just play it like a normal goddamn JRPG.

 

[Dysnomia]

I love how Alundra got a sequel that has nothing to do with the original.

I've been told to not touch the DS Lunar game.

I didn't play the Alundra sequel because it wasn't related. I really wanted a game where you could switch between Alundra and Meia. You could only do it briefly in Alundra. But I was hoping that would be expanded on since they are in the ending together. Maybe they could have different powers that you'd have to utilize for puzzles and enemies. It would have been fun.

I know Lunar Dragon Song is supposed to be terrible. I still want to try it though. I'll probably regret it.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Grandia 2 has probably one of the best yet underrated combat systems in jrpg history.

 

[HexFag]

Grandia 2 has probably one of the best yet underrated combat systems in jrpg history.

It is crazy how good the series' battle system is, especially in Grandia Xtreme where you get Double Tech Attacks like in Chrono Trigger. It really makes me wonder why nobody else decided to just ape/steal the battle system wholesale after the series died.

 

[Dysnomia]

Alundra is a GOAT game to me and fags that bitch about the localization are gay.

IDK about the rest tho

I've posted about it before in another thread. But I felt like Bonaire being a surfer dude and some of the other humor helped to lighten up what is a very dark game. Most of the villagers act normal. The translation isn't bad at all. Magic Knight Rayearth is far more overcooked in terms of classic WD "humor".

I have it in my eternal bucketlist but have heard it's infamous for it's shitty localization. Is it still worth tackling?

I enjoyed it. It's been a long time since I played it. But I remember one infamous tlansration error concerned the dog Brad finds in the beginning of his scenario. The dog's name is supposed to be Rush. It got transliterated to Rassyu.
It doesn't matter too much because the doggo's name can be changed so you can just fix the error or name him whatever you want.

I also recall a conversation between Kanon and Lilka that I couldn't make any sense of.

And they changed Caina's gender from male to female because he has the hots for Vinsfeld and you can't put that kind of freaky age gap gay stuff in a PS1 game. His profile says 21. But he looks 14 and acts it too. Vinsfeld is like 50. Ick. Thankfully Vinsfeld has no interest in magical twinks and it goes nowhere. I honestly didn't know Caina was male until years later. Caina's look is kind of gender ambiguous anyway.

Overall the game is pretty playable. You might get confused at times or be annoyed at some translation choices that are obviously bad. But there's nothing that should prevent you from completing the game.

 

[Psyduck]

Played through Lunar 1 and enjoyed it, Got through a big chunk of 2 but i never finished it... Gotta get back on it sometime

Odds on the remakes removing the bromides?

Spoiler

You know this shit ain't flying today

 

[Dysnomia]

Played through Lunar 1 and enjoyed it, Got through a big chunk of 2 but i never finished it... Gotta get back on it sometime

Odds on the remakes removing the bromides?

Spoiler

View attachment 6494981

View attachment 6494987

You know this shit ain't flying today

Maybe if they gained 300 lbs and had vitiligo. Otherwise no. I can't see this happening.