World of Warcraft

The difference, imo, is that XIV is built around being tard-friendly for the bulk of its content, with a low skill floor. WoW, conversely, has a higher skill floor (not much, mind, but I would argue that it's reflected with things like a faster GCD and different mechanics to keep in mind and learn without really being taught it, etc.) that ratchets up more and more. You have to really be going out of your way to be a net drain on your group and even then, you should be able to clear most content. A freestyling SAM or a Blizzard Mage can still clear content if the rest of the group aren't mouthbreathers.
I'm not saying "PC Gaming Master Race" but FFXIV is also designed for consoles, right? That probably has something to do with the relative simplicity of the mechanics since it can get really clunky to try to do a piano rotation from WoW on a gamepad.
 
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They have datamined a "social contract" that will have to be accepted to play in 9.2.5 it seems:
"
Hail, traveler, and welcome to the World of Warcraft! Azeroth is a living world full of people like you - other players with different backgrounds, cultures, experiences, and histories who have all come together to play World of Warcraft. Every player deserves to have a world that they feel safe in, so please take a minute to read our Social Contract.

While in Azeroth, do your best to:
  • Connect with other players and make friends! Being courteous in group content can help you and your teammates have the best time possible. Sending a friendly hello message can help set your group up for success.
  • Play as a team with your fellow players - whether in dungeons, raids, battlegrounds, arenas, or out questing in the world. Do your best to support your team through your communication and behaviors so that you can all celebrate your success together.
  • Assist other players that you encounter in the world. Maybe they need some help defeating a tough monster, or maybe they could use a little healing!
  • Help answer questions others have in chat channels like General or Trade. We were all newbies once - one person offering some help can go a long way!
We recognize that the Internet is not always a safe haven. With that in mind, please note that the following behaviors are not accepted in Azeroth:
  • Hate speech, including negative comments that target another player's identity, including aspects like race, gender, or ability
  • Harassment, threats, or abusive / derogatory language and behaviors
  • Spamming, advertising, or other disruptive behaviors
  • If you harm your fellow adventurers with any of the above behaviors, you are subject to punishment up to and including suspension of your account.
It's a big world out there, with all sorts of people in it. So please try to be respectful of each other, and if you ever feel like somebody is acting against this code, please report those behaviors so that our team can look into it. Together, you can help us make the World of Warcraft a safe home away from home for everyone."
this reads like one of those latter's you would get in elementary school to remind you just to be a basic human being and not a savage little cunt. they treating their player base in the same manners as toddlers!

one of the big factors that made world of warcraft so good was the fact you lived in an open free world were you actions would speak for themselves and depending on how you played your social cards, it could either reward you as well as ruin you. it was the perfect game to test and study the human condition. hard to do that when you got devs breathing down you neck and may punish you for thinking outside the box.
 
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I'm not saying "PC Gaming Master Race" but FFXIV is also designed for consoles, right? That probably has something to do with the relative simplicity of the mechanics since it can get really clunky to try to do a piano rotation from WoW on a gamepad.

Nope, ff14 have complicated rotations, though the slower gcd does help.
 
I'm not saying "PC Gaming Master Race" but FFXIV is also designed for consoles, right? That probably has something to do with the relative simplicity of the mechanics since it can get really clunky to try to do a piano rotation from WoW on a gamepad.
Yeah, XIV is designed with consoles being considered as well. I would argue that's the biggest reason why mods aren't really a thing (even though they more or less turn a blind eye to them and 99% of folks out there are running something if they're on PC.)

Although rotations can have a lot of moving parts. Machinist, and Gunbreaker for example, have parts where there's a 'lot' going on and some openers for jobs are pretty involved, although I'm not well versed with all of them. GNB is interesting because it has a one button combo where the skills continually shift to the next one, which I believe was the first instance of them doing something like that because of button bloat issues with console players.
 
Yeah, XIV is designed with consoles being considered as well. I would argue that's the biggest reason why mods aren't really a thing (even though they more or less turn a blind eye to them and 99% of folks out there are running something if they're on PC.)

Although rotations can have a lot of moving parts. Machinist, and Gunbreaker for example, have parts where there's a 'lot' going on and some openers for jobs are pretty involved, although I'm not well versed with all of them. GNB is interesting because it has a one button combo where the skills continually shift to the next one, which I believe was the first instance of them doing something like that because of button bloat issues with console players.
Nah, they started doing it for PVP skills even before GNB. (Possibly as a testing bed). You're right that GNB would be the first official class to have that, with, I think RDM getting a similar treatment with Scorch.
 
Nah, they started doing it for PVP skills even before GNB. (Possibly as a testing bed). You're right that GNB would be the first official class to have that, with, I think RDM getting a similar treatment with Scorch.
Yeah, sorry, I had meant within a PVE context and in response to button bloat issues.
 
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The difference, imo, is that XIV is built around being tard-friendly for the bulk of its content, with a low skill floor. WoW, conversely, has a higher skill floor (not much, mind, but I would argue that it's reflected with things like a faster GCD and different mechanics to keep in mind and learn without really being taught it, etc.) that ratchets up more and more. You have to really be going out of your way to be a net drain on your group and even then, you should be able to clear most content. A freestyling SAM or a Blizzard Mage can still clear content if the rest of the group aren't mouthbreathers.

Once you start dipping your toe into later expansion content (and higher levels of difficulty) you start seeing problems crop up where one person who doesn't know a fight can basically waste your time.

Anyone who has prior MMO experience shouldn't have any problems. But I find XIV's community is comprised of MMO fans and JRPG fans/MMO first timers. The latter category is a not inconsequential amount of players and it's amusing seeing it reflected with folks being utter dogshite at PVP or with like the Ivalice raids (which aren't particularly difficult but have a few curveballs mixed in.) Very similar to early WoW with EQ vets and folks who were picking up WoW cos it was either a Blizzard product or was the hot new thing at the time.
The average XIV player has a much higher skill lever than an average WoW player, although you can chalk that up to any factor of your choosing.

- XIV forces players to engage in group content constantly - which means even the most anti-social players will have to engage with core mechanics (bosses, Area of Effect skills, all of the various effect markers). WoW has one forced dungeon that doesn't require any roles and reinforces 0 mechanics.

- XIV has dungeon mechanics outside of dungeons - even to some degree on normal mobs. Even if you're actively avoiding dungeons, you're still being forced to engage with the core mechanics of the game. FATE bosses (which are plentiful in every zone) have a full suite of dungeon/boss mechanics. WoW mobs in the world mostly simply stand still and auto attack - and the only mechanic players can practice on them are CC skills (if you pull too many) and interrupts (if they have spells that can be interrupted, and you are a class that can interrupt). Very few mobs in WoW do anything but auto attack (and most of them were added in Exile's reach).

- XIV classes/jobs at a low level play similar to the class at a high level. Each skill is introduced every few levels and builds onto the design at max level. WoW classes at low levels feel pretty different than at high levels (missing skills, abilities, rotations, etc)

- XIV also forces players through Class/Job quests, which function as job specific tutorials for players. (With the WHM one being the funniest - it being a fight about "You can't just sit and heal, you're going to have to fight stuff you fucking coward").

- XIV has a much tighter class design (and substantially less classes) so there's less variation in how the roles are played inside of one another. In XIV anyone who plays Warrior can play any other tank class with only a small adjustment. In WoW, Guardian Druids and Protection Warriors have drastically different toolsets/abilities/gearing/etc.

- XIV has very little RNG inside of it's class designs and has detailed rotations that make sense and have a basic flow and are easy to explain and understand. WoW has a lot more RNG in it's class design which is built on top of several layers of borrowed power (tier set bonuses, heart of azeroth, whatever shadowlands did, glyphs, legendary abilities) and clunky mechanics that are never explained in any detail.

- XIV doesn't have "I don't know what the fuck do to with these classes" classes, unlike Ret Pally, Survival Hunter, and any PVP spec.

- XIV has a longer GCD which means you've got more time to decide your next move, but dropping a combo/making a mistake can be massive. WoW can be played by most classes with ~80% effiency by open palm slapping the keyboard (to a point where the WoW Dev team had to get rid of the /castrandom macro for that exact reason) because mistakes don't size up all that well.

- XIV has a much cleaner UI/UX than WoW. When you make a mistake in XIV that you aren't supposed to (ex - hit with an avoidable mechanic), you are marked with some kind of indicator (usually a Vuln Stack) to let you know "you can avoid this". WoW has no clear indicator of "avoidable damage" or "unavoidable damage". There are WoW mods that try and track this for you, but they're not even partially good at it.

- XIV has a cleaner raid design and "what is going on" and "what am I supposed to do" are extremely readable where as WoW players are forced to half rely on Deadly Boss Mods (or similar).

- WoW has constantly shifting and changing abilities, which mean each raid is extremely dependent on Raid Composition and the current patch (Example - Death Knight's Anti-Magic spells negating entire mechanics in raids). XIV has much less "bring <class> to skip mechanics".

- A FFXIV party is 4 people (tank, heal, dps, dps) and a FFXIV Raid is 8 people (2 tanks, 2 heals, 4 dps - or two parties merged together). A WoW dungeon is 5 people (tank, heal, 3 dps) but a WoW Mythic raid is 20 people, but is 1/2 tanks, 3-6 healers, and the rest dps - not a simple party merge. On top of that - WoW also has design issues with not making ranged DPS better than Melee DPS so there's a huge swathe of classes that get left out. A WoW raid can often be "the minimum classes we need and then 10 copies of the best/class spec possible at the moment"

- XIV doesn't have any kind of castable/trackable buffs. You don't have to bring 3 paladins for 3 blessings, a druid for BOTW, a mage/shaman for Bloodlust, etc.

- XIV has a built in threat meter, where was WoW doesn't (or at least didn't when I still played).

- XIV has no "random" resource management - unlike Rage, Energy, or some classes MP bars.

- XIV gear doesn't change a classes playstyle, where was WoW's drastically changes at certain patches, thresholds, tier sets, leggos, etc. It is less severe now than it was then (with Expertise and Hit Rating gone) but it's still drastic.

- XIV doesn't have grinds or timegates to get into content - meaning that the average XIV player is more likely to engage with it. In XIV, you can raid really easily because there's no "pre-raid" prep needed/treadmill/rep requirement.


I'm not saying that people who play XIV are big brained and WoW players are small brained - but if you took the same person and made them play both games at the same time, they'd become better at XIV much more naturally and easily.

My experience in both games is that in XIV I feel comfortable pugging in Savage (aka Mythic) raids but in WoW it was extremely common to have trouble in the LFR versions of raids.

Personally, I have played several classes in WoW and points where even in a high end raid - I was pushing 3 buttons and doing top DPS (DK, Warrior, Rogue, and Hunter). There were points in raids when healing (Paladin, Priest, Druid) where I was able to just spam AoE heals and keep everyone up.

I've never been able to phone it in nearly as much in XIV and I've never seen anyone be able to either.
 
I'm either an idiot and not getting what you're saying or we're more or less agreeing.

To clarify, I'm not trying to make a Wow = big brained XIV = small brain, either. Just that the game has benefited from strong design which has led to a lower skill floor than you would in WoW. The skill ceiling? Just based on what I've encountered thus far, I'd argue that it's higher in XIV and lower in WoW.

A lot of the things you're raising is what I mean with regards to the game being tard-proofed. Bright orange glowy thing lighting up = move isn't a hard concept to grasp. Huge WOM WOM WOM WOM sound effect with arrows pointing where to stand? Same thing. A lot of it is Fisher Price levels of understanding mechanics.

XIV does a great job of drip feeding things to players and building a foundation that they continue to rely on as they progress through. Even with shit that's got wrong information (eg, the Hall of the Novice encourages tanks to use single target abilities against groups) players still get a good understanding of things.

WoW is more obtuse/arcane and players have to figure shit out on their own and plod through. And yeah, they can be functionally useless or players who have no idea they have an interrupt. Or a stun. Or a res spell. Which is shit I've experienced in WoW and can severely impact a group.

In XIV? Someone not using their abilities or using a shitastic rotation will still clear content, and that speaks to the 'tard-proofing' I was talking about and the specifics you brought up. Have a WHM who is a Curebot and not doing any DPS? You more than likely will be able to clear the bulk of the content. Have a Druid who isn't using Innervate (or whatever, it's been eons since I've even looked at a healing class in WoW)? You're probably gonna have a bad time.

Like, I've seen people who are absolutely terrible at the game in high level content and I wonder how the hell they got there.

But, if you're talking about people phoning it in for Savage content in XIV, yeah, I agree. You can't really skirt on by or be dead weight like folks could be in WoW like you were describing.

But that is such a small percentage of the game's content. The vast majority of it? Yeah, I would argue you could phone it in.
 
My experience in both games is that in XIV I feel comfortable pugging in Savage (aka Mythic) raids but in WoW it was extremely common to have trouble in the LFR versions of raids.

Eh, the easiest versions of stuff in WoW is usually the hardest in many cases. As I mentioned the Normal Dungeon Finder is often times way worse than the Heroic Dungeon Finder despite having lower stats and less abilities, but simply because the people in it are awful and the game does nothing to address that. If anything it does the opposite with pity stacks in LFR so you're almost rewarded for wiping faster and not learning shit.

I did partially pug SoO Heroic (Which was renamed Mythic by the end) back in MoP as I had come back to the game and joined some guild that was doing 25 man heroic but fell apart. A few of the people stuck around and we just picked up some pugs while doing the 10 man from what I remember, whereas the guild failed to clear more than the first few bosses we actually ended up with a consistent enough pug group that made it all the way up to Blackfuse before it fell apart, though that was after a few weeks of raiding as basically the same group +/- a couple people.

The biggest thing I noticed was people just didn't know what to do. As the person who ended up leading it I remember just looking at what people were doing and what glyphs/etc they had and having to provide suggestions I thought were pretty obvious but they just didn't consider. Which means they were good enough to get the rotations and such of a mythic raider, but were just missing some obvious shit for some reason. One thing I remember is we had a DPS warrior that would tank the shaman on Naz and she kept dying which seemed to be a problem on the Scorpion boss too, I asked if she was using the glyph that reduced damage in prot stance and it hadn't even occurred to her to use that or prot stance for the ground shake in Scorpion. Once that was fixed she did great otherwise.
 
A lot of this WoW vs FF14 discussion reads like things that were true like for half an expansion 5 years ago in WoW. Which is partially because they have no clear vision and keep trying to reinvent things that they honestly did better in WotLK/MoP. Like 3 button rotations or spamming AoE healing on most specs (if anything, they are more cooldown dependent then DPS and have been for a while) haven't been a thing in forever; I played balance druid this expansion which is usually considered the easiest damage spec (havoc DH usually being #2) and the rotation page on icy veins is 3000+ words long and even the most condensed version of the simplest priority is
  1. Enter Eclipse
  2. Apply or maintain your Moonfire, Sunfire, and Stellar Flare (if talented)
  3. Keep Celestial Alignment / Incarnation: Chosen of Elune (if talented) on cooldown
  4. Cast Convoke the Spirits when you have less than 50 Astral Power. Try to pair with your other cooldowns but do not lose a use.
  5. Spend your Astral Power on Starsurge or Starfall on multi-target.
  6. Do not overcap on charges of New Moon
  7. Do not lose uses of Warrior of Elune, Force of Nature, or Fury of Elune (if talented).
  8. Cast Wrath in Solar Eclipse.
  9. Cast Starfire in Lunar Eclipse.

Arguably I would say the biggest problem with the skill level in WoW in aggregate is that anyone of any worth has zero incentive to interact with shitty randos and shitty randos have zero reason to git gud. You can do the shitty baby version of any content in the game as a literal retard and it would be hard for anyone in your group to even notice. I played all BFA and half of Shadowlands and probably did less then a dozen non timewalk dungeon finder dungeons because there was no reason to do anything other than mythics with guildies. I only did LFR sparingly and only when I needed some trinket/azerite shit that wouldn't drop in heroic for me or like 1 or 2 lockouts to try to gear and alt to not be as hard a carry.
Bads just stay bad, and it's only an issue that anyone cares about when a bad thinks they're good because they do top DPS in their heroic and bomb your mythic key because they don't understand any of the affixes or how to push stun or interrupt.
 
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I'm not saying "PC Gaming Master Race" but FFXIV is also designed for consoles, right? That probably has something to do with the relative simplicity of the mechanics since it can get really clunky to try to do a piano rotation from WoW on a gamepad.
didn't they crunch it down to moba level by now? XIV can have fuckload of buttons too (back when I played more than would fit on a single layout), so that's not really an excuse.

besides that, ESO can be played on console too and those niggas beat content that even makes mustards weep (mainly due to coordination, but even in solo arenas - with no addons at all).

Like, I've seen people who are absolutely terrible at the game in high level content and I wonder how the hell they got there.

But, if you're talking about people phoning it in for Savage content in XIV, yeah, I agree. You can't really skirt on by or be dead weight like folks could be in WoW like you were describing.

But that is such a small percentage of the game's content. The vast majority of it? Yeah, I would argue you could phone it in.
that's not limited to either game, and was pretty much always the case. I'd argue in the end that doesn't really matter, because people who want to improve will do so either on their own or ask. think I mentioned it before but WoW simply isn't a game that offers something for everyone, at some point you simply run into a wall and HAVE to do certain content, whereas XIV offers more option for "character progression" so to speak (everybody wants to see numbers go up) or simply other stuff to waste time in like housing or the saucer. I see far less shitters in ESO's hard content because there are other ways to get that gear (or they get carried from their guild), so there's no need for them to punch above their weight. helps there's also no timelimit on any content due to gearcap so they can grind at their own pace than OMG I HAVE TO GET IT NOW BEFORE IT'S WORTHLESS and other effects you see in both XIV and WoW.

The average XIV player has a much higher skill lever than an average WoW player, although you can chalk that up to any factor of your choosing.
the average player will still be dogshit in high level content, because the average player is average.

don't get me wrong, I'd play XIV any day over WoW, but at the end of the day it's still built on WoW's foundation and a linear mmo. meaning all those fancy mechanics in fates mean fuck all if you can outgear and outlevel them (plus old content gets inevitably powercrept), if those zones aren't completely dead in the first place; why would a high-lvl run around in a low-lvl zone, and even if he does he would render all those mechanics void anyway. same for "cooperative aspect", can the lvl20 play in a lvl90 instance? otherwise it's exactly the same as in WoW where any highlvl can carry anyone through ragefire. unless it's a mate of yours I can count the people willing to do that with randoms on one hand. as for timesink... everything's tied to MSQ, why do you think they sell fucking boosters for that? just because it's not as obvious as WoW's facebook tier shit doesn't mean it's not a timesink. it got so bad they had to actually nerf the post-ARR quests, I know of at least eight people personally who quit over that (and the ninth quit over the post-HW).

while XIV does a lot of things better (and more importantly smarter), it still has plenty of issues WoW doesn't have (for example simply skipping content and nerfing it into the ground, while squeenix never touches old content unless they really have too).
 
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while squeenix never touches old content unless they really have too).
Is that really true though? WoW hasn't really touched old content since Cataclysm, while in FF14 ARR has been reworked for the last two expansions, culling filler quests and adding flying, and now with endwalker they've reworked the dungeons and trials and are looking to upgrade the graphics. The fixes to Praetorium are actually impressive
 
Meh. I like FFXIV, when it's at the end of an expac, with all its content out. Biggest problem for me is that FFXIV doesn't let you push. You do your expert roulette, you raid 2-3 times a week and that's about it, if you want more things to fight at a proper level Yoshi-P is there to tell you "sowwy, you should pwobabwy take a bweak, uwu" or something. And also please stop spamming the nice job emote on other players corpses in pvp, you'll hurt someone's feelings.

Anyways, Ion did an interview with Asmongold, of all people, and the only mildly interesting thing to come out of this massive clash of single digit IQs is the fact that the game is officially being developed with addons in mind. (not that we needed any confirmation)

Now, they could disable the addons that basically play the encounter for you, but then they would have to change their whole design philosophy, and they should make the game actually comprehensible WITHOUT addons, and that would require effort. So they're keeping it in mind/considering it/pondering their orb about it and yeah. It's a problem that's been festering for a long time that's not gonna get solved anytime soon. Or ever.
 
don't get me wrong, I'd play XIV any day over WoW, but at the end of the day it's still built on WoW's foundation and a linear mmo. meaning all those fancy mechanics in fates mean fuck all if you can outgear and outlevel them (plus old content gets inevitably powercrept), if those zones aren't completely dead in the first place; why would a high-lvl run around in a low-lvl zone, and even if he does he would render all those mechanics void anyway. same for "cooperative aspect", can the lvl20 play in a lvl90 instance? otherwise it's exactly the same as in WoW where any highlvl can carry anyone through ragefire. unless it's a mate of yours I can count the people willing to do that with randoms on one hand. as for timesink... everything's tied to MSQ, why do you think they sell fucking boosters for that? just because it's not as obvious as WoW's facebook tier shit doesn't mean it's not a timesink. it got so bad they had to actually nerf the post-ARR quests, I know of at least eight people personally who quit over that (and the ninth quit over the post-HW).

while XIV does a lot of things better (and more importantly smarter), it still has plenty of issues WoW doesn't have (for example simply skipping content and nerfing it into the ground, while squeenix never touches old content unless they really have too).
It literally isn't the same - doing the dungeon as if you were level 20, with a level 20 friend is drastically different then just having your friend /follow you as you blow through the instance while they're AFK because that's the only thing you're able to do. It isn't exactly rocket science (unless you work at Blizzard) to think that people like playing games with their friends and that eliminating barriers to doing that is a key to success. In WoW, it's a huge pain in the ass to do anything with anyone unless you're both max level (and same battlegroup, same faction, different roles, etc) and there isn't much to do outside of the combat parts.

Anyways, Ion did an interview with Asmongold, of all people, and the only mildly interesting thing to come out of this massive clash of single digit IQs is the fact that the game is officially being developed with addons in mind. (not that we needed any confirmation)

Now, they could disable the addons that basically play the encounter for you, but then they would have to change their whole design philosophy, and they should make the game actually comprehensible WITHOUT addons, and that would require effort. So they're keeping it in mind/considering it/pondering their orb about it and yeah. It's a problem that's been festering for a long time that's not gonna get solved anytime soon. Or ever.
It's been that way for years, ever since they wrote the API for the addons. They've always been a part of the design, which is why they always try and do dumb shit to try and mitigate it (vehicles come to mind).

However - it is something that will extremely likely be thrown out the window shortly, IMO - one of the main drivers of the purchase by Xbox is getting these titles onto the Xbox (another thing FFXIV does, 100% playable on a console with 0 mods) so there's no fucking way the current WoW install is going to stay the way it currently is (which is the game, and then a gigantic addon pack that constantly fucking breaks with every minor patch or interaction) and if I were Ion (and had a brain in my head) I'd be slamming the breaks on that design ASAP realizing that.

WoW (above anything else) is going to need a drastic UI/UX revamp as well as a full overhaul of the New Player experience before it's going worth putting on Xbox console/Gamepass. It's going to take a lot more effort than the shitty bandaids (Chrome Time, Exile's Reach, Cataclysm) they've been getting by with for all these years.
 
WoW isn't that bad without mods right EXCEPT as it applies to Encounter Design and Arenas. Those are the two places where Blizzard's default UI drops the ball because Blizzard engaged in an information war with Mod designers instead of just saying "this is how complicated our fights/PvP are expected to be, we will deny you the information in the API to just fucking trivialize them"

As a result you have a lot of weird overcomplicated fights like Mekkatorque where on mythic you would have something like 3 people selected for a mechanic where you had to call out the symbols appearing over the other people's head so they could punch in the sequence to not die and the other people in the mechanic can see the other players symbols but not their own. It was designed the way it was so that you couldn't just make a weak aura to make it so that all the players just punched in their codes immediately because they all have weakauras to whisper the answers to each other.

Actually playing WoW default UI is perfectly fine in most cases, even the vanilla raid frames are good and show important debuffs for dispels and you don't have to put a cast on mouseover macro on every heal anymore.
 
WoW (above anything else) is going to need a drastic UI/UX revamp as well as a full overhaul of the New Player experience before it's going worth putting on Xbox console/Gamepass. It's going to take a lot more effort than the shitty bandaids (Chrome Time, Exile's Reach, Cataclysm) they've been getting by with for all these years.
At least the UI revamp is coming, and from what those early screenshots are leading me to believe, heavily inspired by ElvUI or TukUI, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The one thing that has always kept me from doing endgame content in FFXIV is simply sensory overload. There is so much going on at any given time and I have difficulty filtering out what is relevant to me in terms of mechanics, and what are just player spells, attacks and buffs. Understandably it has those visual effects going on because well, it's Final Fantasy. Should I ever return I guess I need to look into disabling those, if possible. Because as it stands, it gives me headaches after 20 minutes, which doesn't exactly motivate me to return. I never really had that in WoW, but then again, I haven't raided much these last expansions. I just hope Dragonflight is fun for me, that is all I'm asking for, a fun gameplay experience. Naturally, what people perceive as fun is their own taste and preference.
 
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At least the UI revamp is coming, and from what those early screenshots are leading me to believe, heavily inspired by ElvUI or TukUI, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The one thing that has always kept me from doing endgame content in FFXIV is simply sensory overload. There is so much going on at any given time and I have difficulty filtering out what is relevant to me in terms of mechanics, and what are just player spells, attacks and buffs. Understandably it has those visual effects going on because well, it's Final Fantasy. Should I ever return I guess I need to look into disabling those, if possible. Because as it stands, it gives me headaches after 20 minutes, which doesn't exactly motivate me to return. I never really had that in WoW, but then again, I haven't raided much these last expansions. I just hope Dragonflight is fun for me, that is all I'm asking for, a fun gameplay experience. Naturally, what people perceive as fun is their own taste and preference.
Wasn't there an option in FFXIV to dim other players' spell effects? I could have sworn a friend told me there was when I complained about the same thing.
 
Wasn't there an option in FFXIV to dim other players' spell effects? I could have sworn a friend told me there was when I complained about the same thing.
There is. You can choose to show all effects (literal madman), show only party effect (I use this for casual content) and show only your own effect (probably the setting you want for savage+).
 
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