- Joined
- Jun 25, 2020
White supremacy, obviously.
World of Warcraft
- Thread starter XYZpdq
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2019
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2022
I've been listening to a lot of people talk about their time in game design from back in the day, and it's always amazing how so much of it was basically a couple guys going "this sounds cool" and then roping randos in their company to work on it for free basically because they all wanted to make something cool.
Basically what made it work was there was no sense of entitlement and no expectations of prestige, they just wanted to make shit that was cool.
Drunken Fox
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
I think the real issue is that video games are now big business. Everything needs so much approval that it is impossible to just make things and get them into the game at most companies at this point. It's just too risky and big corporate America doesn't want that so instead a managerial layer is added to prevent this risk. A layer that inevitably gets filled overly ambitious corporate ladder climbers and/or people who have been promoted to incompetency. The average competent contributor does not want to join this level because then they'll get mired in days full of pointless meetings and having to play office politics so inevitably you get a whole leadership managerial class that is worthless and specifically removes the ability for anyone to make a good game.
I think Frank Zappa spoke to this best when he was talking about the decline of the music industry because it echoes exactly what has happened with video games.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2022
I kind of agree, but a lot of old games like Diablo 1, Fall Out, etc had a lot of managerial interference that contributed to the end product even if it made some of the people working on it rage, and justly so in many instances. The bigger problem I'd say is that because you can't fill useful roles with diversity hires, as they can't program and you need people to program, the managerial layer gets filled with those diversity hires which then creates the issues you're describing.
It's one thing to have management beating you over the head to stay in budget and be profitable, it's another thing when they're beating you over the head to make their waifu the super special hero undead and replace random art assets with bowls of fruit.
Tanner Glass
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2016
The issue is largely that there are so many people involved with a game - it's hard to know who your "Key Players" are.
On a team of 10 or under, it's easy (like most early games) but with the massive teams of today - no idea until it's too late. You won't get to notice that a Jay Wilson or Jeff Kaplan was the key to D3 or OW until two years after they leave and the project falls apart.
Drunken Fox
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
Don't get me wrong. Sometimes managerial interference is completely necessary. I don't know any of the fallout details so I won't comment on them, but I remember seeing some videos about Diablo 1 and I seem to recall it being more devs talking to devs to steer the ship rather than the corporate bean counters getting involved. Slight PL, but I do actually work in games so from my personal experience the problem with these leadership teams is not specifically diversity hires. Like none of our managerial level people were that. They were all just incompetent morons who did a good job of convincing the executives that they really understood what gen z wanted (or whatever garbage they were feeding that day of the week) or people who had been promoted to a level of incompetence after being there for so long. And then both groups seem to just continue to fail upwards while every grunt on the team talks behind their backs about how everyone in leadership is beyond useless and most of the time actually detrimental to making quality.
Now as for the WoW team itself I will merely say that I have had the misfortune of interacting with multiple members of the team and that team is entirely infected by diversity hire BS and not just at the top level. They are also some of the most haughty, narcissistic, and stupid group of game developers I've ever had the displeasure of interacting with. I don't really want to give away too many details (and quite frankly I tuned most of those imbeciles out for my own mental sanity), but I do remember a key conversation where they were all pissed that that the fan base just misunderstood what was happening in the story and that they didn't understand Steve's great writing. I don't know the mental gymnastics they used from there but somehow they came to the conclusion that all of this feedback of the general player base not understanding the story perfectly (which to me sounds more like that's a sign you told the story poorly) was just toxic feedback and because it was toxic they could completely ignore it. I guess all "toxic feedback" is just invalid in their minds because they're idiots. It was that exact moment that I came to the conclusion that WoW was officially doomed and there was no chance of recovery.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2022
Looked up who were the lads criticized in Jason's post and it turns out they were Typhoon Studios, before Google bought their company for Stadia Games (lol), they produced one game during their run called Savage Storms and from the reviews it was well-received.
But anyways back to the topic, If I had to sacrifice a limb to have bunch of late 90s-early 2000s group of nerdy lads or boomers replace this weird melting pot of theater kids, OF whores (sounds specific but, I shit you not how many women employed in gaming companies I've seen have an OF) and histrionic trannies "developers" completely, I would sacrifice it in a heartbeat.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2021
@Drunken Fox wait like unironically enjoy Steve's writing? Did they assume he would add their waifus and husbandos if given enough praise for his near Matt Ward tier fanfics?
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2021
You're dealing with broke brained coomers and consoomers. They think anything is good if the "right" people with the "right" ideology create it. Or they'll pretend to like it loudly and publicly since only the wrong people dislike it. And it wouldn't surprise me if there was an element of hoping they'd get their own self-inserts written in as well.
Drunken Fox
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
This was legitimate enjoyment. Now I have two theories on why this could be.
The more charitable theory is that they have much more knowledge of the overall story going on what all of these elements are and so they are blinded to how absolutely shitty the execution of the writing is. They can't understand how poorly explained and paced certain events and character points are because they already knew all of them so in their mind all of this is common knowledge and thus the players are just whining.
My less charitable theory (and quite frankly its a mix of both) is that they have no taste as these people are the types who legitimately enjoy Mavel shit, late night comedians, and at least one was a Disney Adult. So obviously their media literacy, sense of humor, and sense of taste is mediocre at best.
Fag Albert
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2015
we just need to find the guy that built John Carmack and ask him to make more
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2019
They have now redone the entire Alexstraszaquest line so that we save her personally by helping Rhonin notice her plight.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2021
Still disappointed where there isn't a quest line to help Garrosh become best Warchief by finding the heart.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2022
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2020
Thrall being a slave triggers me and is offensive to black people, so we have to go back and change his character background.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2019
I don't know much about her lore but the make it so that we leave something for rhonin to find that lets him save her and if we didn't leave it she wouldn't be saved. And then since shes a dragon she knows we did it in present time.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
I don't think so, going off of what I remember and what I refreshed myself with from the wiki. Rhonin was there at the time and he did help free her, so being there and helping him learn about the situation probably wouldn't change much at all.
I dunno what they were thinking by having the original plan be "we need to ensure Alexstrasza is a broodmother slave." Like, yeah, keeping the timeline (or what's left of it) intact is important and what a hero would do, but it certainly doesn't make you feel heroic. Changing it to playing a part in helping to free her makes more sense, but if they'd have had any balls they would have stuck to the original. But that's modern Blizzard for you: either they lopped off their balls or never had them to begin with.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2022
That's probably the point, it's supposed to be a shitty decision you have to make because not making it will lead to way worse shit. It's like the old Yogg line of "A thousand deaths or one murder?"
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2017
Given the amount of trannies that write about keeping women as breeding stock on twitter... I'm thinking it was a fetish thing.