Worthless degrees

[Ruin]

It makes me wonder where the fuck America has gone wrong with this? I understand for the most part outsourcing is a major reason but it can't last forever. It's bad enough I hate working retail. I just feel and fear for people, myself included that want to do more in life than flipping burger or ringing out ungrateful jackasses but can't because the standards of the workforce makes it harder for people to have some improvement in life.

Humans are meant for progress, not stagnation.

Years of electing politicians from both parties that stand to make a lot of money outsourcing jobs and shutting down rival firms.

 

[SU 390]

Years of electing politicians from both parties that stand to make a lot of money outsourcing jobs and shutting down rival firms.

Like always, politicians are to blame. Real change won't ever happen in the lifetime.

 

[Picklechu]

Meanwhile the skilled trades are fucking desperate for people. The combination of all the old trades guys/journeymen retiring and every kid going to college after being told by everyone that a 4-year degree from SixPack State U would propel them right into the ivory towers and that trade jobs are for the plebs.

But I need to buy coffee regularly so I'm glad this country churns out so many college-educated Starbucks employees.

Too many people are getting undergraduate degrees and beyond for jobs that shouldn't even require a high school diploma.
Many industries are desperate for machinists and tool & die makers, and those jobs pay quite handsomely in part due to little supply and high demand. But of course, people just want to go to a clean office and get paid while browsing the Internet for half of their time on the clock.

There's a huge stigma against trades, trade schools, and the like. I actually put together a research proposal a few years ago on the subject (it didn't get the grant, so I didn't go further with it). It's interesting from a policy perspective, especially because a lot of school systems will make it difficult for "smart" kids to learn a trade, assuming their district has access to such resources in the first place. This is one of the reasons I firmly believe we're going to see the student debt bubble burst within the next 15 years.

That being said, a lot of people don't want to do physical work, which I absolutely can sympathize with. However, the laws of supply and demand don't care what a person's dream job is.

 

[SU 390]

There's a huge stigma against trades, trade schools, and the like. I actually put together a research proposal a few years ago on the subject (it didn't get the grant, so I didn't go further with it). It's interesting from a policy perspective, especially because a lot of school systems will make it difficult for "smart" kids to learn a trade, assuming their district has access to such resources in the first place. This is one of the reasons I firmly believe we're going to see the student debt bubble burst within the next 15 years.

That being said, a lot of people don't want to do physical work, which I absolutely can sympathize with. However, the laws of supply and demand don't care what a person's dream job is.

It's kind of sad really. I find working with my hands much more satisfying than dealing with the public. From what I read from some forums trades are in trouble theirselves, not because of shortage of people wanting the jobs/careers it's the economy altogether. I expected the student loan bubble to burst in a few years but 15 years seems optimistic.

 

[Ebola]

On the other hand, bare assertions that philosophy majors are probably better at math, art, science, and logic than everyone else...

Well, evidence is for people who don't have philosophy degrees!

I did say they were smarter than people in general, yes. I never claimed they were smarter in specific fields. However, I am implying they would be superior in interdisciplinary fields. In addition, kids taught philosophy early (grade school to high school) perform better in math and reading/writing, and are more likely to be successful in STEM fields.

 

[Sanshain]

I find it quite odd that 'health professions' are so low on the list. Does that include future surgeons or just nursing and so forth?

 

[SU 390]

I did say they were smarter than people in general, yes. I never claimed they were smarter in specific fields. However, I am implying they would be superior in interdisciplinary fields. In addition, kids taught philosophy early (grade school to high school) perform better in math and reading/writing, and are more likely to be successful in STEM fields.

View attachment 125041 View attachment 125040 View attachment 125039

According the first chart, IQs 120 and above shows the number of people majoring in STEM. Am I correct on this?

 

[The Giver]

I find it quite odd that 'health professions' are so low on the list. Does that include future surgeons or just nursing and so forth?

"Health professions" is a massive catch all that is going to catch everyone from those who want to be brain surgeons all the way down to the people who want to do the more menial/mechanical work of the healthcare industry. So basically a lot of different majors that all funnel into the healthcare industry in some way. For instance, my undergrad had a program just for people who wanted to be radiologists -- it was more akin to learning a trade than an academic program. There is nothing wrong with that obviously, but I'd imagine if you limited it to those in legit RN programs the results would be far different.

It is also worth noting that this will catch all the "pre-med" people who on average don't do as well as those in other majors on things like the MCAT. So it seems quite likely that (1) the category average is being brought down by folks in majors far less rigorous than an RN program and (2) your brain surgeon probably got a degree in something (biology, physics, etc.) that wouldn't be classified as a "health professionals" major

 

[Positron]

Oddly, most of the philosophy majors I know were and still are flaming SJWs and entitled snowflakes who believe they are smarter than everyone because they have a degree in philosophy. They also have some of the most crackpot beliefs that are impenetrable to logic because "I have a philosophy degree; I know what I'm talking about."

Philosophy is one of the strongholds of postmodernism. 20th century philosophy is so focused on all sorts of funny language games that it should really be called "sophisty".

 

[The Giver]

Philosophy is one of the strongholds of postmodernism. 20th century philosophy is so focused on all sorts of funny language games that it should really be called "sophisty".

You have a point, especially as regards a lot of stuff in analytic metaphysics. And basically everything in continental philosophy.

To be fair though, a lot of those "playing with language" type problems only get taught and talked about in lower level undergrad classes (especially Intro). They are really easy to explain, an 18 year old freshman who didn't do the reading can see what is going on, and they let you focus on teaching the underlying critical thinking process without having to worry too much about teaching philosophical concepts. You could try and teach more serious material (history of thought, ethics, Bayesianism, etc, etc), but in doing so you'd be detracting from teaching the basics, which is all a lower level class should really be doing. So it just ends up being more efficient to get people arguing about when something is/isn't a "heap" and focus on how the convincing arguments are constructed and attacked, etc.

 

[AnimuGinger]

I find it quite odd that 'health professions' are so low on the list. Does that include future surgeons or just nursing and so forth?

Health professions encompasses nursing, radiology tech, etc. Pre-med isn't classified in it, given Pre-med isn't a real major.

Someone with a doctoral degree in medicine tends to have majored in a natural science of some kind, but that's slowly changing, so it's hard to classify them on here. A surgeon could have an undergrad degree in anything under the sun.

There is nothing wrong with that obviously, but I'd imagine if you limited it to those in legit RN programs the results would be far different.

Probably not. It's surprisingly easy to get into an RN program, especially given you can get into it with just a diploma or an associate's. Nursing isn't all that mentally challenging.

 

[feedtheoctopus]

Philosophy is one of the strongholds of postmodernism. 20th century philosophy is so focused on all sorts of funny language games that it should really be called "sophisty".

I've found most of the people who say this sort of thing have no idea what postmodernism is.

 

[The Giver]

Health professions encompasses nursing, radiology tech, etc. Pre-med isn't classified in it, given Pre-med isn't a real major.

Someone with a doctoral degree in medicine tends to have majored in a natural science of some kind, but that's slowly changing, so it's hard to classify them on here. A surgeon could have an undergrad degree in anything under the sun.

Probably not. It's surprisingly easy to get into an RN program, especially given you can get into it with just a diploma or an associate's. Nursing isn't all that mentally challenging.

Ah ok.

The Nursing program at my undergrad was notoriously difficult to get into. They only let in 50 people a year out of hundreds who tried (they had some arrangement with one of the local hospitals or something, so it was a hard and fast cap). I guess we were the exception

 

[AnimuGinger]

Ah ok.

The Nursing program at my undergrad was notoriously difficult to get into. They only let in 50 people a year out of hundreds who tried (they had some arrangement with one of the local hospitals or something, so it was a hard and fast cap). I guess we were the exception

A good BSN program is hard to get into. But for every good BSN program, there's an associates. If we were to split the nursing programs apart and look at IQs for each, that would probably be more accurate.

 

[Positron]

I've found most of the people who say this sort of thing have no idea what postmodernism is.

Who has?

 

[DatBepisTho]

Women's Studies, pretty much every music degree, and English.

O-Oh yeah?!
....It true tho.

The thing about the education-oriented degrees here is they're being cut, at least the college I went to had dropped one or two of the ed courses by the time I took the publishing/editing route. Can't say much for other regions with higher rates of literacy, but in BFE being a tutor or educator is like having one foot in the dumpster behind MacDonald's.

 

[Pikimon]

student debt

 

[TopCat]

So I'm guessing we all agree that a degree in Politics is worthless?

 

[Positron]

So I'm guessing we all agree that a degree in Politics is worthless?

It depends on what you want to do with this degree. One of my friends majored in Political Science and wrote her dissertation on the political repercussion of the Euro. She is now doing pretty well as a financial planner.

One of the bonus of studying Politics is that you have a chance to meet 1) political bigshots, 2) people who aspire to be political bigshots and perhaps 3)children of political bigshots. If you're smart and ambitious you can make very useful connections.

 

[Wallace]

One of the bonus of studying Politics is that you have a chance to meet 1) political bigshots, 2) people who aspire to be political bigshots and perhaps 3)children of political bigshots. If you're smart and ambitious you can make very useful connections.

This is actually a pretty good reason to go to college, meeting people who will give you cushy jobs afterwards.