Writing Tips - Let's help each other not be crap.

If you have the fuck-you change for it, be sure to check out the Story Planner app if you’re a psychotic outliner. It’s available for Apple and Android users.

I just got it, and am mostly using it to write up character profiles. It’s pretty fun to use once you get the hang of it
 
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Venus said:
If you have the fuck-you change for it, be sure to check out the Story Planner app if you’re a psychotic outliner. It’s available for Apple and Android users.

I just got it, and am mostly using it to write up character profiles. It’s pretty fun to use once you get the hang of it
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I really don't see the value in that kind of shit not unless you're planning an epic like Gravity's Rainbow or the 120 Days of Sodom.
 
BrunoMattei said:
I really don't see the value in that kind of shit not unless you're planning an epic like Gravity's Rainbow or the 120 Days of Sodom.
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I definitely wouldn’t suggest it for folks writing some generic contempary fiction for sure- but since I have a preference for writing fantasy, I find it helpful for keeping things consistent while keeping it neatly organized at the same time.

But then again, it’s not really going to be helpful to people who don’t really outline anything in the first place.
 
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I doubt it will help, but if you are beginner, don't push yourself too much and really, really spend your time on writing, you can edit stuff later in progress, but that's all, you write, learn things [also from reading books] and you basically shape your own style and get better into it
 
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orelpuppington said:
what are some good tips on how to write a flawed/troubled character but also make them likeable?
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It's all a balancing act really.

A lot of troubled characters with a heart of gold stories fail because the writers either lean in too much into said character's jerkiness or make them so likable you wonder why they're considered troubled to begin with. In some cases it can also be used to justify a character's behavior or at least be used as a way to understand them.

What's underlying issue is this: how long can you make a character act a certain way without their own antics biting them back in the ass? Depending on how you write the story and characters it won't take too long, but for other cases writers also fall into the trap of extended the drama for far too long and making the troubled character plain unlikable. There's only so much an audience is going to take before they give up on said character. That's the tricky part. There's only so far you can go before they reach outright villain/anti-hero territory.

A troubled character isn't an excuse to write some jerk who never gets comeuppance because of said tragic backstory, but as a way to understand that sometimes we don't know as much about others as we think we do. The audience should know WHY these actions are related to said character, but not necessarily excuse them either.

A key question to ask yourself is that are you creating a character you want to justify or are you justifying the reasons for why said character is the way they are? Notice I said justification and not "excuse". If a trouble character does something horrible within the story's own reason, they should be called out for it, but it doesn't meant the audience shouldn't know why.
 
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Tanti-Fanti said:
It's all a balancing act really.

A lot of troubled characters with a heart of gold stories fail because the writers either lean in too much into said character's jerkiness or make them so likable you wonder why they're considered troubled to begin with. In some cases it can also be used to justify a character's behavior or at least be used as a way to understand them.

What's underlying issue is this: how long can you make a character act a certain way without their own antics biting them back in the ass? Depending on how you write the story and characters it won't take too long, but for other cases writers also fall into the trap of extended the drama for far too long and making the troubled character plain unlikable. There's only so much an audience is going to take before they give up on said character. That's the tricky part. There's only so far you can go before they reach outright villain/anti-hero territory.

A troubled character isn't an excuse to write some jerk who never gets comeuppance because of said tragic backstory, but as a way to understand that sometimes we don't know as much about others as we think we do. The audience should know WHY these actions are related to said character, but not necessarily excuse them either.

A key question to ask yourself is that are you creating a character you want to justify or are you justifying the reasons for why said character is the way they are? Notice I said justification and not "excuse". If a trouble character does something horrible within the story's own reason, they should be called out for it, but it doesn't meant the audience shouldn't know why.
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from what i've seen in fandom, people are almost always going to hate characters who:
-are vengeful for petty reasons
-cheat on their spouse (unless the spouse is abusive in someway)
-ruin things and make things difficult for others because of foolish decisions they've made
-are giant hypocrites
-or they never face any kind of consequences for their actions that harm others

these are generally pretty easy to avoid, but then again, if you make a character never hurt others or makes bad decisions that could hurt others, even on accident, its just not realistic and leads to mary sue/gary stu territory
 
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orelpuppington said:
from what i've seen in fandom, people are almost always going to hate characters who:
-are vengeful for petty reasons
-cheat on their spouse (unless the spouse is abusive in someway)
-ruin things and make things difficult for others because of foolish decisions they've made
-are giant hypocrites
-or they never face any kind of consequences for their actions that harm others

these are generally pretty easy to avoid, but then again, if you make a character never hurt others or makes bad decisions that could hurt others, even on accident, its just not realistic and leads to mary sue/gary stu territory
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I can understand those archetypes being bad executed but you can mixing up a team of many characters with pros & cons and focusing each other while the protagonist just can be in the background for some time and expand their character arc later.
More than that, you're right; i hate those perfeccionist characters.
 
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Prophetic Spirit said:
I can understand those archetypes being bad executed but you can mixing up a team of many characters with pros & cons and focusing each other while the protagonist just can be in the background for some time and expand their character arc later.
More than that, you're right; i hate those perfeccionist characters.
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it should be easy to write a balanced character that isnt a perfect mary sue or a character who's an absolute asshole with no redeeming qualities

but at the same time writing is never as easy as it seems. i think just as long as a character doesnt do anything heinous or unforgiveable, and they learn from their mistakes and make an honest effort to better themselves, the fans will usually like a flawed character.

but there are also characters that are super flawed and never progress or better themselves that are still loved by fans.
 
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orelpuppington said:
it should be easy to write a balanced character that isnt a perfect mary sue or a character who's an absolute asshole with no redeeming qualities

but at the same time writing is never as easy as it seems. i think just as long as a character doesnt do anything heinous or unforgiveable, and they learn from their mistakes and make an honest effort to better themselves, the fans will usually like a flawed character.

but there are also characters that are super flawed and never progress or better themselves that are still loved by fans.
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Yeah, even if you write a very complex & detailed character, it's a matter of perception with taste of the consumers.
The thing is... the diverse of the cast must be the main point in fiction media but the plot itself must be the real one.
That's the way i saw my actual work.
 
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I'm looking for a vocal audience with a critical eye; some real brutal fuckers so I can improve. I know you have to give critique to receive it, which I have no problem with, but I'm not sure where to go. My Google-fu must suck, because searching for recommendations points me to sites that are dying or dead, or have had their focus shift so far away from prose that they're useless.

Either that or they don't accept fanfiction. I fully understand why, but lately I feel like building with Legos and Lincoln Logs rather than gather and shape my own materials, if you catch my drift. And I wanna finish the story I'm on before moving back into my own universe.

DeviantArt had groups for this sort of thing, but they took away the ability to format or preview literature submissions. That's the most retarded thing in the world and makes it a no-go.
Wattpad is Wattpad; I've heard nothing but bad things about it.
I hear AO3 is full of smut and is bad for commentary. Considering my stories have zero sexiness, I don't think I'd get many eyes. That and, well, I want the commentary.
Fanfiction/FictionPress has beta readers, but is dying. Also, communicating in that is really awkward in general.
Royal Road is a maybe? I've literally never heard of it before and the one person suggesting it didn't give any pros beyond the sorting system.

Help a kiwi out, y'all.
 
AmarettoPie said:
I'm looking for a vocal audience with a critical eye; some real brutal fuckers so I can improve. I know you have to give critique to receive it, which I have no problem with, but I'm not sure where to go. My Google-fu must suck, because searching for recommendations points me to sites that are dying or dead, or have had their focus shift so far away from prose that they're useless.

Either that or they don't accept fanfiction. I fully understand why, but lately I feel like building with Legos and Lincoln Logs rather than gather and shape my own materials, if you catch my drift. And I wanna finish the story I'm on before moving back into my own universe.

DeviantArt had groups for this sort of thing, but they took away the ability to format or preview literature submissions. That's the most retarded thing in the world and makes it a no-go.
Wattpad is Wattpad; I've heard nothing but bad things about it.
I hear AO3 is full of smut and is bad for commentary. Considering my stories have zero sexiness, I don't think I'd get many eyes. That and, well, I want the commentary.
Fanfiction/FictionPress has beta readers, but is dying. Also, communicating in that is really awkward in general.
Royal Road is a maybe? I've literally never heard of it before and the one person suggesting it didn't give any pros beyond the sorting system.

Help a kiwi out, y'all.
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If you're looking for fanfic readers, I know that if you tag your shit right/have a good cover, Wattpad is aight. Naturally they have a heavy preference towards xreaders/smut and that, plus their audience is pretty young. Last I was there, you could ask on their community tab for critique in dedicated threads, but I never tried because was child at the time.
 
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Deadwaste said:
that option is gone now, for they removed it entirely. im still unsure why.
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Wtf. It looked like there were some spergs who knew what they were doing there. They likely removed it to further cultivate their young sped audience. 12yo fanfic writers don't look for any criticism I guess.
 
Autistador said:
Wtf. It looked like there were some spergs who knew what they were doing there. They likely removed it to further cultivate their young sped audience. 12yo fanfic writers don't look for any criticism I guess.
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eh the site hasnt been the same for a ling time. kinda went all downhill after they removed the option to have stories have 2 genres and now solely rely on the tag system which has somehow actually made it harder to find the stories you actually want
 
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why yes, i dont know either

update: never let me write anything again ever
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So, I've finally gotten off my ass and begun actually writing my novel for the first time earlier this afternoon and I intend to self-publish it once it's finished, aiming to have it ready for sale by October or November of next year, so I'm probably gonna have to devote a lot of time to it.

I spent about thirty minutes on it today in Microsoft Word, and I have four and a half pages and around 2329 words written so far, which isn't much but it's a start.

Gonna spend more time on it over the weekend and I'll admit I've only got a very rough outline of the story that's mostly just a short list of bullet points.

It's told from a first-person POV and while I know that's pretty cringe, I always admit I kind of like that point of view.

The genre is kind of hard to explain though and that might be tricky for the self-publishing but I'll have to finish the damn thing first before I self-publish it.

It's ostensibly a mafia story and the main character is a young man who becomes a mobster almost by sheer dumb luck. The concepts of fate, coincidence, and fortune are meant as a core theme but there's also a lot of other genre elements within it.

The story is set around 2010 and is sort of an alternate history, but it's not a traditional one with a major point of divergence. More of a subtle alternate timeline (AKA in this world, it's spelled Berenstein Bears) with the closest thing to a real point of divergence is that the RICO Act is never passed so the Italian Mafia is a lot stronger in the modern era as a result.

I know there's a thread dedicated to self-publishing but it hasn't been updated in over a year from the looks of it, so I figured I'd post here instead.

As an unrelated side note, what are your thoughts on writing stories featuring public domain figures as major characters?
 
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