YABookgate

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Coming of age and white women children go together because they're sheltered as shit and as a result never faced any actual hardship or responsibility. So as a result, they think being an adult/coming of age is all about them road trips and first romances and heartbreaks with the cute uwu hipster soft boy/captain of the football team like in John Green books or whatever sappy romance movie they saw.
It's either that or it's because men have their own "coming-of-age rituals" stuff where the boys become men, so why not have works where the girls become women, too? Except I guess girls are boring compared to boys and don't do the same cool shit boys do. Best we get is just start bleeding once a month and then our boobs grow and suddenly we actually do like boys. Can't really make anything compelling about that in stories without over-exaggeration.
 
It's either that or it's because men have their own "coming-of-age rituals" stuff where the boys become men, so why not have works where the girls become women, too? Except I guess girls are boring compared to boys and don't do the same cool shit boys do. Best we get is just start bleeding once a month and then our boobs grow and suddenly we actually do like boys. Can't really make anything compelling about that in stories without over-exaggeration.
I am going to butcher it but I heard it once explained that since babies start so close and bonded to their mother, that when a boy starts reaching a certain age, he has to "venture away" from her into the world of manhood towards his father.

This then would explain the "coming-of-age" dichotomy: boys have to undertake a journey, whereas girls don't have to go anywhere. It would certainly fit with why so much fiction by men involve going out and discovering something while fiction by women involves discovery of one's self and one's "power."

At least that would also fit into an evolutionary view of human sexual dimorphism. Female? Discover how you are valuable just because of who you are. Male? You are shit and worthless - now go out there and find something to prove otherwise.
 
I am going to butcher it but I heard it once explained that since babies start so close and bonded to their mother, that when a boy starts reaching a certain age, he has to "venture away" from her into the world of manhood towards his father.

This then would explain the "coming-of-age" dichotomy: boys have to undertake a journey, whereas girls don't have to go anywhere. It would certainly fit with why so much fiction by men involve going out and discovering something while fiction by women involves discovery of one's self and one's "power."

At least that would also fit into an evolutionary view of human sexual dimorphism. Female? Discover how you are valuable just because of who you are. Male? You are shit and worthless - now go out there and find something to prove otherwise.

The good coming-of-age stories about girls (mostly written in the 19th and early 20th century) have the girls venture out of their homes to do stuff. But they were written in a period when girls had actual incompatible choices to make: "Do I want a career and earn my own living now that I can, or do I do what everyone wants from me and marry and have children?" There's actual conflict. It's not taken for granted that of course a woman can have both a career and family.

Jo in Little Women (A book the YA author types seem to adore, even though they 100% take the wrong lessons from it. I could go into detail about it.) goes out into the world and earns her own living. Anne in Anne of Green Gables works as a teacher before marrying. (Even though teaching was definitely a 'waiting for marriage' type of career for most women at the time.) Yeah, women were supposed to be wives and mothers first and foremost, but it was generally understood that they needed some personal maturation before that.

Not only are most of the social limitations that enabled these stories eroded or completely gone, but the audience for YA books (and most authors, I'd guess) would probably dislike the idea of both sides having a point in a conflict like that. Ultimately, what I'm saying is that YA writers and readers are just too self-centered and lack intellectual generosity to write an interesting coming-of-age story.
 
Ultimately, what I'm saying is that YA writers and readers are just too self-centered and lack intellectual generosity to write an interesting coming-of-age story
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That's a solid point. (I'm just guessing here since I'm a robot without any emotions.)
 
Well, this is depressing. :P I remember a famous YA author (I want to say Diane Wynn Jones but I'm not positive) saying that YA fiction allowed more creative freedom than 'adult' fiction. This was many years ago, though, and it looks like things have changed.

I read The Hunger Games, but haven't bothered with any other YA novels or series. The YA I read in high school my friends and I now call "angsty teenager novels" because it fits. I don't know how many of them would count as coming-of-age stories. Not many fit the trend for dystopias, either. There were a couple dystopian novels I remember -- I Am The Cheese, House of Stairs -- though the former isn't set in the distant or near future. Same with coming-of-age stories for girls: Up A Hill Slowly, First Person Singular. The main characters' coming-of-age was their emotional growth, explored through their relationships with other people. I think Forever would count, if only because it details Katherine's experience of sexual attraction, falling in love, having sex, then falling out of love and realizing the world doesn't end.

I remember seeing YABookgate as it started and thinking "This is so fucking stupid."
 
LMAO that cope. "No, this comic isn't about romance between two boys, it's about romance between two boys! Those are two completely different things!"
I think going so far as to call her racist is retarded, but it is fitting for someone so mind-numbingly woke to be eaten alive by the other mind-numbingly wokes.
 
I am going to butcher it but I heard it once explained that since babies start so close and bonded to their mother, that when a boy starts reaching a certain age, he has to "venture away" from her into the world of manhood towards his father.

This then would explain the "coming-of-age" dichotomy: boys have to undertake a journey, whereas girls don't have to go anywhere. It would certainly fit with why so much fiction by men involve going out and discovering something while fiction by women involves discovery of one's self and one's "power."

At least that would also fit into an evolutionary view of human sexual dimorphism. Female? Discover how you are valuable just because of who you are. Male? You are shit and worthless - now go out there and find something to prove otherwise.
One of Joseph Campbell's students sketched out the heroine's journey, and it's largely this. It could be seen as navel-gazing if you're uncharitable, but feminine stories really do tend to be about incorporating your inner fears into something manageable. It's healing as opposed to conquering. Both male and female coming-of-age narratives allow you to leave what you know, confront what you don't, and return wiser, but male stories just tend to be more active. But feminine fairy tales are all about being locked in castles and navigating unwanted marriage proposals until you heal the beast and make him human as you become a woman. It's just acknowledging that the sexes have different sources of power and using that to make their world better.

Of course, these are both just archetypes and can be blended quite a bit. But I don't see either as being more important or more interesting. Same story, different key.

Well, this is depressing. :P I remember a famous YA author (I want to say Diane Wynn Jones but I'm not positive) saying that YA fiction allowed more creative freedom than 'adult' fiction. This was many years ago, though, and it looks like things have changed.
This is true in a way because YA is not constrained by genre. You can write a Western Cinderella retelling with aliens and long sections of romance without feeling obligated to follow the conventions of any of those genres. There isn't the same openmindedness in ~literary adult fiction~, which is the closest equivalent. There's just more of an expectation in adult fiction that you have to justify your worldbuilding, but YA can just throw things in for the fun of it because it's closer to the imagination of a child. It can be whimsical.

But when you start using that creative freedom to tell the exact same story about woke identity in every book, you have fallen into genre expectations again. The audience has come to expect unproblematic narratives about oppressed identity groups, and stepping a toe out of line is like writing a mystery novel that isn't structured correctly, so the wide open spaces of YA's possibilities have suddenly snapped closed again, just in a different way.
 
So what all is it going to tell us? Who's on what political position? Who's who in the administration? Who's selling and who's not?

I'm curious.
From what File 770 says nothing dramatic, only what members decide to show other members: email address, phone numbers. Clearly it would be middling members, anyone high profile would not have such public information, or Literary Agent Contacts.

OK, so other drama.

Mercedes Lackey, an old writer, called fellow old writer and friend Samuel "Chip" Delaney a "colored" person rather than a Person Of Color and of course people were triggered and needed immediate medical attention at hearing such a terrible word, including out of body experiences, apparently

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There are many wailings and rendings of cloth from the usual young millennials, and Samuel Delaney had to step in and tell everyone to shut the fuck up, elders are talking, this is the language of the elders, GTFO

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But of course a good witch hunting doesn't do well to have the prima facie wounded party saying that nothing was wrong so HIS OPINION DOES NOT COUNT (Source - dodgy Facebook group and regular serial SJW pest)


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JESUS, looks like a job for Safespace and Snowflake

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From what File 770 says nothing dramatic, only what members decide to show other members: email address, phone numbers. Clearly it would be middling members, anyone high profile would not have such public information, or Literary Agent Contacts.

OK, so other drama.

Mercedes Lackey, an old writer, called fellow old writer and friend Samuel "Chip" Delaney a "colored" person rather than a Person Of Color and of course people were triggered and needed immediate medical attention at hearing such a terrible word, including out of body experiences, apparently

View attachment 3310630

There are many wailings and rendings of cloth from the usual young millennials, and Samuel Delaney had to step in and tell everyone to shut the fuck up, elders are talking, this is the language of the elders, GTFO

View attachment 3310633


But of course a good witch hunting doesn't do well to have the prima facie wounded party saying that nothing was wrong so HIS OPINION DOES NOT COUNT (Source - dodgy Facebook group and regular serial SJW pest)


View attachment 3310636

JESUS, looks like a job for Safespace and Snowflake

View attachment 3310644
Jesus H Christ, wokies really love to talk over the people they supposedly totally care for and advocate for so long as they can scrounge up some extra woke points. Fuck you old man for trying to be the voice of reason and de-escalating this minute issue, my internet twitter points are more important than you!
 
Never let an inconvenient old man (who lived through the actual battles you pretend to fight) get in your way of accumulating social power over others. The discourse must be controlled, no matter the cost!
 
From what File 770 says nothing dramatic, only what members decide to show other members: email address, phone numbers. Clearly it would be middling members, anyone high profile would not have such public information, or Literary Agent Contacts.

OK, so other drama.

Mercedes Lackey, an old writer, called fellow old writer and friend Samuel "Chip" Delaney a "colored" person rather than a Person Of Color and of course people were triggered and needed immediate medical attention at hearing such a terrible word, including out of body experiences, apparently

View attachment 3310630

There are many wailings and rendings of cloth from the usual young millennials, and Samuel Delaney had to step in and tell everyone to shut the fuck up, elders are talking, this is the language of the elders, GTFO

View attachment 3310633


But of course a good witch hunting doesn't do well to have the prima facie wounded party saying that nothing was wrong so HIS OPINION DOES NOT COUNT (Source - dodgy Facebook group and regular serial SJW pest)


View attachment 3310636

JESUS, looks like a job for Safespace and Snowflake

View attachment 3310644
Mercedes Lackey had a massive fucking sperg out back in the early 00's on the Baens Bar calling her publisher a fucking fascist and all her readers to, and most of her fellow writers, it was a bold strategy and she's I think still banned, didn't hurt her working relationship with Jim Baen though.
 
Mercedes Lackey had a massive fucking sperg out back in the early 00's on the Baens Bar calling her publisher a fucking fascist and all her readers to, and most of her fellow writers, it was a bold strategy and she's I think still banned, didn't hurt her working relationship with Jim Baen though.
There's no protection these days from purity politics. She was fully supportive of the gays and they smoked her anyway. The sFWA announcement is locked on Twitter, and all the "good work SFWA" comes from dangerhaired rainbow flag smol beans fae/faer who fucking owe a goddamn chunk of their accepted existence to Lackey and her championing LGBT characters and people though her career.

Big "Bitch, you knew I was a snake" energy there.

Baen's Bar is a cesspit of old whiny fuckers though, I bought myself access onto the forums a couple of months ago and it was riddled with 80 yo geriatrics with the occasional full Chris-Chan autist. It's beyond saving, but maybe it did have enough people back in the day you could have a conversation and exchange of ideas.

My opinion: Back in the day people were less adept at expressing dissenting political opinions: then it was no biggie to say "X sucks and they all deserve to be shot" rather than the more measured "the X lifestyle has tended to extreme positions I cannot fully support for Y reasons (citation produced), and I look forward to a more benign iteration" or something like that.
 
There's no protection these days from purity politics. She was fully supportive of the gays and they smoked her anyway. The sFWA announcement is locked on Twitter, and all the "good work SFWA" comes from dangerhaired rainbow flag smol beans fae/faer who fucking owe a goddamn chunk of their accepted existence to Lackey and her championing LGBT characters and people though her career.

Big "Bitch, you knew I was a snake" energy there.

Baen's Bar is a cesspit of old whiny fuckers though, I bought myself access onto the forums a couple of months ago and it was riddled with 80 yo geriatrics with the occasional full Chris-Chan autist. It's beyond saving, but maybe it did have enough people back in the day you could have a conversation and exchange of ideas.

My opinion: Back in the day people were less adept at expressing dissenting political opinions: then it was no biggie to say "X sucks and they all deserve to be shot" rather than the more measured "the X lifestyle has tended to extreme positions I cannot fully support for Y reasons (citation produced), and I look forward to a more benign iteration" or something like that.
Meh Baen's Bar you can take it or leave it(I mostly leave it) but it's still pretty darn funny she called her readers publisher and fellow authors a bunch or goosestepping fascists because she had her preconceptions challenged. Its an amusing anecdote nothing more
 
Meh Baen's Bar you can take it or leave it(I mostly leave it) but it's still pretty darn funny she called her readers publisher and fellow authors a bunch or goosestepping fascists because she had her preconceptions challenged. Its an amusing anecdote nothing more
And today she's canceled from her clubhouse while Baen continues to sell books. Life comes at you fast.
 
Someone posted the Nebula Awards announcement from the SFWA Twitter. There's this sentence:

"Comfort elves are available in the forest biosphere this year, should you need one, no quest required."

They leap on "colored people" but are oblivious to the play on the term "comfort women". 🤦‍♀️
 
Someone posted the Nebula Awards announcement from the SFWA Twitter. There's this sentence:

"Comfort elves are available in the forest biosphere this year, should you need one, no quest required."

They leap on "colored people" but are oblivious to the play on the term "comfort women". 🤦‍♀️

That didn't happen in America, so it doesn't count.
 
Someone posted the Nebula Awards announcement from the SFWA Twitter. There's this sentence:

"Comfort elves are available in the forest biosphere this year, should you need one, no quest required."

They leap on "colored people" but are oblivious to the play on the term "comfort women". 🤦‍♀️
The problem with Comfort Women is that, the Japanese are successful in erasing their crimes of Comfort Women to the point people rarely brought that up again, even in countries they occupied like in Southeast Asia. Of course exceptions applies with China and the two Koreas, but their nation-myth involves Japanese War Crimes, so they won't forget it. This is why most of the time, people who brought up that issue in the West are people descended from those countries
 
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