Your morality on revenge

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Gary Plauche, perhaps?
I would say that's an act of vengeance, not revenge. He was utterly outraged about the crimes committed against his son and felt killing the perpetrator was the only way he could achieve justice.

In a perfect world, no, he shouldn't have done that, he should have left it up to the justice system to handle. However, I don't think what he did was disproportionate to the offenses so morally it's not revenge.

A man he trusted abducted his son and took him over a thousand miles away to rape him.
 
Right, there's an important difference between revenge and vengeance. Vengeance is based on a desire for justice, revenge is retaliation for emotional reasons that doesn't right any wrongs or make whole any losses

For example, suing someone who injured you in a car accident is vengeance, you're making them pay for the injuries and cost they inflicted on you so you are made whole or as whole as possible. Sabotaging their brakes so they slam into a wall and injure themselves is revenge. You're no better off as a result and they are worse off.
a lawsuit isn't about vengeance, a lawsuit is about getting the other guy to make you whole for the damage he has caused you
 
If you give somebody a taste of their own shit meal then the ends definitely justify the means and they always never once retaliate. Preferring to shrink back and go into victim state instead.

Case and point: Some idiot is doing massive gay ops. Doxxings, swattings and petty vendettas. The typical stuff, right? Don't know basic opsec and they burn a lot of bridges. Eventually they are going to step on one too many toes and end up getting doxxed and swatted too. And every time it is an immediate U-turn from acting like a keyboard crime lord to "My family! My family! Oh my God, I am being targeted!"

It is the reward for very stupid games played. 🏆
 
a lawsuit isn't about vengeance, a lawsuit is about getting the other guy to make you whole for the damage he has caused you
That's exactly what vengeance through the legal system is. It's a just penalty for the damages caused. If it was criminal damages it'd lead to time in jail or a fine.
 
it's a defense mechanism.
This, revenge is natures justice and a precaution to make sure said thing doesn't happen again. People often forget that "justice" is just the state doing the "revenge" for you, with not actual damage taking place for the public. The state interests is to not harm tax payers and avoid property damage, which revenge would not consider.

If you are one of the retards who fell for the following TV (Talmudic Vision) tropes:
  • "revenge doesn't solve anything",
  • "it won't bring them back"
  • "it's not what he/she would have done"
Please, an hero.

I would say that revenge is morally fine (or even a duty) if said crime damaged something that can't be replaced/fixed/healed.
 
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What if you learn that your neighbour kicked your pet that was running outside (on either your or public property), but again you have no way of proving it? Would you end up slashing his tires or something, and would that be a fair tradeoff?
Take a bat to their knees and make it very clear if they ever touch another animal it's going to their head. Any one harming a pet is as bad as they harming your kids and you should rightfully protect your family.
 
In fiction, characters that avoid revenge or back out of revenge at the last second are big fat pussies that deserved what they got in the first place.

In reality, as long as it remains between the two affected parties then it's free game
 
This, revenge is natures justice and a precaution to make sure said thing doesn't happen again. People often forget that "justice" is just the state doing the "revenge" for you, with not actual damage taking place for the public. The state interests is to not harm tax payers and avoid property damage, which revenge would not consider.
That's close but not quite what justice is. The people who believe in that justice over revenge sometimes mess that point up themselves too so its not your fault to think that.
See, justice and revenge are two solutions to combat an injustice. Justice relies upon the consensus of a wider shared group and ensures strength in numbers for enforcement of a punishment and potential leniency for the accused. It's something which can be executed quickly and cleanly if done correctly and should be your go to option for numerous practical reasons if not ethical reasons.
Revenge is partaken if the consensus is either unavailable or determined to be best ignored. It's from one individual to another or perhaps a group and it's done without any other sanction than your own injury. Because it's the committing of an unsanctioned injury, one must be careful in revenge and patient and they must be willingly anonymous for the entire course and aftermath lest it be brought against them. It's valid to my personal framework but it's immensely unwieldy and people should be warned of it.
 
but you didn't have or just couldn't put security cameras/similar to protect it/catch the person, or it just wasn't enough, the police cannot do anything about it.
In many jurisdictions the police wont do anything about it even if you have cameras.
So the pitbull will end up injuring the other dog (in this case your own), does that justify any action taken outside of the law?
I would napalm a pitbull just for existing.
 
Let's start with some definitions and axioms and predicates and blah blah blah, since a lot of morality discussions get lost in the weeds of definition games and arguing semantics:
  • Actions undertaken should be worth doing.
  • I define worth doing as having greater utility than other choices you're aware of and able to choose, including doing nothing.
  • I'm not going to define utility exhaustively here because it's not worth it 😏
  • You have to account for externalities, not just your own immediately outcomes - society, reputation, etc, blah blah blah.
  • If you care about other people and society, which I think you should, this does mean that if your life is ruined, you might have a reason to deal with the life ruiner lest they do it to others.
The worthiness of revenge in a moral sense should be a matter of what is a good idea for everyone to do, including you, your friends, other random faggots, and even your enemies. Moral actions should be what everyone does, to everyone else, including you. Sadly, we are not in Kant's heaven, and most people are stupid, selfish, lazy faggots. Most people will act according to their selfish, lazy stupidity, so we need to figure out how to do what's best for us and the society around us, accounting for the fact that many if not most people are going to just be selfish and shortsighted.

Being overly selfish is self defeating. Having a bad reputation, attracting the wrong kind of attention, destroying your society, etc, leads to a worse outcome for you. So clearly you need to avoid that to actually maximize your own utility. So even selfish people should work together with other people because it's better for them in the end. Where that point lies is worth a few Ethics PhDs and beyond the scope of an effortpost on revenge.

Arguments to only work through the legal system fall apart the second the system fails, which is constant. The fact that the system is also a pay-to-win system further undermines it. The legal system, and indeed a government saying "be docile and just do what we say and ask us to step in for you" is the government, and especially the judiciary, saying "I want to have power and exist and a job, fuck you." So, I do not buy it, but since they're a lot better at violence than I am, I refuse to fuck around for fear of finding out. This is one of the many costs of playing the revenge game.

OK, onto actual revenge! The moral calculus of revenge comes down to:

"Is the likelihood of deterrence, and any costs associated with the attempt, worth it to me, accounting for wider society and my position within it."​


This is open ended, ill-defined, hard to define, and difficult to calculate. That's just how talking about ethics and morality goes. Tough shit.

You have to worry about the system going after you, you have to worry about what friends the enemy may have, in the system or without, and indeed attracting negative attention from powerful people who are outside the system, but in society with you, you don't like some uppity guy throwing weight around that could become a problem for them.

Let's take some faggot who kicked your dog. If you really are sure you can get away with threatening or attacking him, the issue is then "will this stop future attacks on me or my pets?" and "would this instigate him or his friends into coming after me in turn?"

Let's take, say, Liz Fong Jones. Elliot here has broken the fucking internet, committed all kinds of crimes, and even fucking did so to cover up a prior sex crime. Revenge here can take many forms: staying up despite his attempts to break the internet, censor you, and slander you, fighting back with the system, engaging in "lawfare", or fedposting.

Staying up means you get more attention, but once you're already lost all standing and had to move to Serbia, you've already incurred the cost.
Lawfare requires money, but Null has that now. It might be little more than an annoyance to Elliot, but if it only costs cash Null can raise, and a little time, it's worth it, since he might win. If not, he at least is making a stand and drawing attention to what Elliot is and what he is doing.
Fedposting is retarded. Null does not strike me particularly capable as an assassin, even if he succeeded he'd be an international fugitive and KF would actually go down without a successor arranged before he became Ghost Recon: Slobbermutt, and there's a nonzero risk he'd up thwomped in Elliot's gay tranny sex dungeon, begging for death.

OK, let's take something a bit worse. Somehow, your life is actually destroyed, your future is going to be death in a gutter. Assume you have a crystal ball and know this. Taking the person who did that to you down with you is worth it, for society, because it deters such people from doing this.

This raises the question: should people who are sick or very old "do the needful"? You tell me.

tl;dr -
Don't ignore the risks to yourself
Don't ignore the impact on wider society
Don't ignore the asshole's friends or other big fish seeing you act a fool
Don't waste opportunities by going all in and throwing your own life away
Don't trust the fucking system since it's an amoral instrument of wealthy, powerful people who are currently letting trannies cover up rape and break the internet and facilitating the grooming of children
 
In movies, the big pay off is when the bad guy gets his just deserts (death), and even then, it's a toned down version of justice. It satisfies a normal healthy psychological need. Over the centuries however, we cucked ourselves first into handing the responsibility over to someone else and then into not even administering justice properly as a society (no death or torture). In Europe the courts will give Ahmed 200 hours of community service for raping your 12 year old daughter.

To paraphrase the father of young murder victim, Seth Jackson: "I want to torture them. I know it wouldn't bring him back but I'd feel damn good doing it." It's the difference between a man being able to sleep at night and not being able to sleep.

Usually, after many years psychological torture, victims families find ways to deal with strain. For example, the father of the girl killed in the Knoxville horror (blacks rape, torture and murder 2 innocent whites) was pointing his finger like a gun in court. Death stared them all down. It took him 10 years to convince himself that God had a plan. Offer him an hour with those horrible shits and God's plan would be out the window. I guarantee you.

A solution to the psychological cruelty of keeping father of victim and murderer apart would be to legally allow the dude a few hours with the killer. And a hammer. And a power drill. And for low T types who think it's wrong to exact revenge, they would have the freedom to forgive the killer or "Ask him why" (like the killer gives shit lol).

If we're talking revenge for not returning your superbowl VHS tape, then yeah, let it go.
 
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In my internal system, there's sort of two lines, sub-lethal and lethal. If the harm someone inflicted on you was capable of being lethal, either by destroying livelyhoods, actually killing people you know, or injuries that either could have been fatal or effectively destroyed quality of life, then lethal revenge is very much justified. If someone cripples a loved one because they were too stupid to not drive drunk, I'm of the belief that killing them is on the table. They 'could' improve, but they've lost that benefit of the doubt, and if they haven't been put behind bars to 'prove it', then they're free game. Same for someone who'd destroy a business with theft or arson or 'peaceful protest', rape or murder someone for their own pleasure/gain, etc. If the legal system doesn't remove people like that from the society, I have no major regrets about people taking it into their own hands. Even if that piece of shit person has family that will stand up and fight back to protect their lives, then that's ok - They made their choice to stand beside an awful piece of shit, they can live or die with that choice too. Choices have consequences.

Sub lethal is in the interesting space - If someone engages in petty theft/crime, deals drugs to the willing, gets into drunken fights but hasn't maimed anyone, and generally is just a huge nuisance to lives but hasn't actually destroyed any, then lethal vengeance is a stupid escalation that doesn't really help anyone. Social ostracism is the name of the game there. Druggy in your neighborhood? In a sane world, local business would refuse to deal with him. Known thief, but he's just getting slaps on the wrist? Weird, his car got stolen and driven into the riven, and nobody on the street saw anything - They were all at a house party, so they can all testify for each other. Its the communities job at that point to make it clear to this individual that they're not welcome, and need to leave. If enough places repeat this, those individuals will hopefully realize they're not gonna keep getting away with just the courts wrists slap, and stop doing stupid shit.

So yea, Lynch drunk drivers and pedos, throw bricks through dealers windows, and you'll probably live in a much better place. Just gotta be willing to take the risk of fighting for it, and that's the real part about revenge. Its not consequence free. Nobody will protect you from making a bad call in pursuit of your own brand of justice, and you need to be ready for that. If you kick in a pedo's door and eat a twelve gauge because you thought you were John Wick, then sucks to be you. Be smart and actually have your communities back, don't just act like a retard.
 
I've taken revenge on people numerous times, and it's always worth it 100x over
the only consideration should be whether or not you can get away with it
 
I like to wait until they think they're free & clear then put the slipper in & watch as they wonder where it came from.
I would napalm a pitbull just for existing.
cute but we both know you ain't gonna do shit
I've taken revenge on people numerous times, and it's always worth it 100x over
the only consideration should be whether or not you can get away with it
Always worth it just don't let it dictate your life.
 
I told off this person yesterday. It had been building up for months and finally I just decided to lay into them. It was not a snap decision, I was rather calm, but brutally honest and relentless. Bringing up all kinds of details over the past few months, and they normally were pretty glib but they were quiet during and after.

Afterwards, I felt energized. It was not lingering anger, this felt like a weight was off my shoulders and everything felt lighter.

Today I still am riding that high. More energized and alert and all around less burdened.

I don’t regret the things I said. But this feels like a power rush. The reason I’m bumping this is because this isn’t normally who I am to feel so good after something so confrontational. But I don’t know. It felt like revenge. Maybe I should be more like that in the future? Not seek out confrontation, but snuff it out swiftly.
 
If you allow yourself or those around you to be harmed, and the perpetrator does not face harm themselves as a result, then that it a second blow against the one who was harmed, and it also emboldens the perpetrator, and those like them to continue harming others. I have absolutely no problem with revenge because it is often the only way to get justice, especially if the perpetrator has connections.

I am reminded of a video I saw. One being the black woman negligently shooting the black man in the head before running away. He's got severe brain damage and will never walk or speak properly again. She got a few years in prison and is already out while he has to live like that for the rest of his life. Even though she technically got punished, it was nowhere near severe enough. So really justice has not been done, and if he decides one day to wheel himself up to her section 8 nighut and put her down, I'd be fully on board with that outcome as a proper form of justice.

Some people will say something about the cycle of revenge and all that. But if you allow people to get away with shit because you don't want to kick off a years long blood feud, you just end up allowing a class of people to run rampant over everyone around them and create the desire for revenge everywhere they go. Like Ken McElroy. Anyone who knows about him knows what had to happen to stop him.
 
Revenge can be very tempting, but from a spiritual perspective you might be tying yourself to the person you're getting revenge on, and is that really worth it? In future lifetimes the karmic contract will have to be fulfilled. The people I despise the most are the ones I try to cut out of my life in every possible way, and that includes revenge. If you're constantly plotting revenge on someone, they are living in your mind rent-free, and you're probably miserable because of that.

Unless you're ready to keep stumbling upon the person you're getting revenge on in future lifetimes, having to deal with them over and over, I'd just drop revenge entirely, even if it's just for purely selfish reasons.
 
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