You're stuck on alpha centauri, which faction do you join?

[King Murchad Big Groypers]

Considering the most close analogy in our world is the European Union, I'd say they're the most likely to tell you to trust the science, well right behind Yang of course.

That's a pretty uninteresting way to view the factions, isn't it? The leaders and their factions are all idealized versions of their guiding ideology without any hypocrisy: they're all genuine to their core. They're not really comparable to IRL countries at all, I mean, Chairman Yang is closer to an alien than a human. Not even the most totalitarian communists of history approached a tenth of what he is. Morgan is the rational capitalist actor that only exists in theory. I don't think any environmentalist or technocrat has ever gotten as anti-human as Deirdre or Zakharov.

If they weren't, and were all "nuanced" instead it'd be less interesting, IMO.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

That's a pretty uninteresting way to view the factions, isn't it? The leaders and their factions are all idealized versions of their guiding ideology without any hypocrisy: they're all genuine to their core. They're not really comparable to IRL countries at all, I mean, Chairman Yang is closer to an alien than a human. Not even the most totalitarian communists of history approached a tenth of what he is. Morgan is the rational capitalist actor that only exists in theory. I don't think any environmentalist or technocrat has ever gotten as anti-human as Deirdre or Zakharov.

If they weren't, and were all "nuanced" instead it'd be less interesting, IMO.

I don't find it less interesting to try to view it as real instead of archetypical. There's elements of it not being idealized in the lore. Yang professes to be about harmony, but instead is about brutal authoritarianism. Zhakarov is about intellectual integrity and pursuit of knowledge, but hides his own research:
"“The Academician's private residences shall remain off-limits to the Genetic Inspectors... we shall not allow this Council to violate faction privileges in the name of this ridiculous witch hunt!”"

Morgan is supposedly about a free market, yet he writes and pursues monopoly, which is an opposite of a free market. When he says in one of the quotes that their products are simply so good that nobody feels the need to compete, it's not a truthful statement.

Pentti Linkola is pretty similar to Deirdre, or probably more extreme. There are anti-natalists who argue scientifically/morally for nobody to have children. I'd say that's comparably anti-human. Am I missing something here?

Also, god help the people that trust AI without verifying its answers.



(it's worth the read, trust me)

 

[ConanTheVintarian]

God protects us and guides us. Even though it is a woman in a leading role - Miriam.

 

[AmpleApricots]

It's not surprising that an LLM is fuzzy on the details, I'm pretty sure "Alpha Centauri videogame lore" is not a big part of the training dataset of any LLM. (as, let's face it, there's not *that* much lore) Already surprising enough it can recall full names and roles.

In the AI thread I once gave an, now outdated, LLM many Alpha Centauri faction leader quotes and told it to write new ones. It was quite cool.

 

[King Murchad Big Groypers]

Am I missing something here?

I guess you might have a point, but on the whole the game leans far more towards "idealized representations of their ideology without cynicism" than "nuanced representations of how it'd actually turn out in practice", but I do think it's intentionally a little unclear just how much each of the factions/leaders genuinely believe their own ideology.

Yang professes to be about harmony, but instead is about brutal authoritarianism.

Those aren't opposed to one another. Yang's an actual true believer in collectivism. The individual doesn't matter at all, all that matters is the group and the greater race. "Life's only purpose is life itself." I don't think there's any indication that the Human Hive is like other totalitarian dictatorships where the ideology is just a tool used by the ruling class to oppress. None of the "all humans are equal but some are more equal than others" sort of thing.

Zhakarov is about intellectual integrity and pursuit of knowledge, but hides his own research:

I don't think they're opposed, either. I read Zakharov and the University of Planet as being more the archetypal "Enlightened technocrats believing in Scientism and progress at all costs without regard to ethics". Preventing inspectors from his private residence just shows that he's unethical, rather than hypocritical.

Morgan is supposedly about a free market, yet he writes and pursues monopoly, which is an opposite of a free market. When he says in one of the quotes that their products are simply so good that nobody feels the need to compete, it's not a truthful statement.

Do Morgan's quotes read like a free-market fundamentalist to you? Or just an egoist materialist? "Resources exist to be consumed... let us take what is ours, chew and eat our fill", "Human behavior is economic behavior", "Wealth is the universe's way of rewarding those who are clever and efficient." None of his or Morgan Industries' quotes are about the virtues of the free market and free enterprise.

Pentti Linkola is pretty similar to Deirdre, or probably more extreme. There are anti-natalists who argue scientifically/morally for nobody to have children. I'd say that's comparably anti-human.

Looked that guy up and wow, you're right. He does seem like someone who would embrace transcendence with Planet if given the option.

"In ancient times, the members of our own family and tribe were human, but all else was a dangerous Other. Our entire history can be considered a process of pushing this boundary back, toward a point at which nothing that thinks can be said to be alien to us."
But I have a difficult time believing that even the most hard-line deep ecologists would genuinely say something like above. I think that whole culture is rooted in plain misanthropy and sentimentalism about the "charismatic fauna" like polar bears, elephants, dolphins, etc (I became disillusioned with environmentalism when I met people whose consideration didn't extend to molluscs and arachnids because they were "ugly".) Is there anyone that actually has an affirmative belief in environmentalism/deep ecology, rather than as a reaction against industrial civilization?

Also, god help the people that trust AI without verifying its answers.

I'll never understand how so many people get fooled by something that so obviously lacks interiority. You can make it tell you whatever you want to hear.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

Chairman Yang is closer to an alien than a human.

Actually no he is a pretty decent archetype of a Chinese Legalist. Emperor Qin Shi Huang would be quite proud of his descendant.

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

Tri-Tachyon gives me the most money for AI cores and has good ships.

Shame I didn't find this thread sooner, could've made a joke here.

 

[SIMIΔN]

That's a really hard question. Sister Miriam as mentioned really gives off a dark horse vibe with how she looks like just another yuppie preacher but later on as the technology advances and shit starts going sideways her skepticism towards technology ends up coming off less like a luddite evangelical and more like justified care.

I agree 100%. She's not anti-science, she just takes into account the impact of it on humans. She's far more rational than Deidre's faction.
Lal's probably the second best, as long as he remains leader, as a successor could end up abusing the people's trust in the state.
Morgan would pretty much end up an exploitive monopoly, a society where the dirtiest exploiter wins.

 

[Post Reply]

Considering the most close analogy in our world is the European Union, I'd say they're the most likely to tell you to trust the science, well right behind Yang of course.

You would think so, but Lal is surprisingly reasonable and skeptical-minded.

Scientific theories are judged by the coherence they lend to our natural experience and the simplicity with which they do so. The grand principle of the heavens balances on the razor's edge of truth.

The Warrior's bland acronym, MMI, obscures the true horror of this monstrosity. Its inventors promise a new era of genius, but meanwhile unscrupulous power brokers use its forcible installation to violate the sanctity of unwilling human minds. They are creating their own private army of demons.

 

[RA-5C Vigilante]

My favorite part of Alpha Centauri is those first ten or twenty turns. Imagining the people living in the first colonies, the initial infantry troops being raised and going out into a foreign and confusing Planet. Terrified at the danger around them, but knowing they have to move forward and keep going. It's what I imagine the Conquistadors or James Cook felt, and I wish I could too.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

My favorite part of Alpha Centauri is those first ten or twenty turns. Imagining the people living in the first colonies, the initial infantry troops being raised and going out into a foreign and confusing Planet. Terrified at the danger around them, but knowing they have to move forward and keep going. It's what I imagine the Conquistadors or James Cook felt, and I wish I could too.

Colonization really feels like that too. It really sucks that the civ4 remake of cokonization kinda sucked. The modded version was briefly in a perfect spot, where sometimes natives were very aggressive. Where you could do actual triangle trade (grow cotton in new world, sell it in europe, buy tools ans guns in europe, sell them in africa, buy slaves in africa, use them to harvest more cotton).

It even had a nice balance to it, with slaves being cheap and very productive, but revolting and stealing your guns and horses from time to time.

But of course a vocal minority kept demanding change and they were appeased to the point where having slaves is almost purely negative.

But yeah the exploratory part of these games is their strength. The new civ tried to change things to get people to finish more games and those changes weren't popular.

 

[grump]

I have no idea what factions you're even talking about. Gimme a quick rundown

UN Peacekeepers: Limpwristed diplomats centering around democracy and freedom, although this doesn't really figure in the game itself save for a few abstract ways. Meant to be seen as one of the morally good factions. This was back in the time where the idea of a sinister UN hadnt spread as far among the normies. Their only weakness is bureaucracy. I used to play this faction almost exclusively.

Morgan Industries: Stereotypical Mr. Burns capitalist faction: Didn't play too much of it. The leader has some of the funniest quotes in the game. The Ai tends to play this faction quite poorly.

Gaians: Hippie environmentalists. Meant to be seen another of the outright morally good factions.

Spartans: Generic stereotypical militaristic faction.

The Hive: 1984 style authoritarians with a culture that weirdly is centered around and openly brags about controlling its people. The leader is an interesting cross between mao zedong and your stereotypical philosophical asian martial arts master in movies. Generally one of the stronger AI factions.

The University: Mad scientists. interestingly for the type of people that make and patronize these games the mechanics are such that this faction tends to have the most unhappy and restless citizens. Probably my second most played faction. AI tends to play this faction badly.

Believers: Stereotypical militant bible thumpers. As you can probably guess they have a crippling penalty to science that forces them to be extremely aggressive in the early game to conquer and steal technology through military force. Which they are actually better at then even the Spartans. By far the most hated faction in the community. Even more than the Hive, the faction explicitly centered around oppression and authoritarianism. The leader has some quotes though that paint her in a slightly more nuanced light.

Expansion Factions

Cult of Planet: A more extreme version of the Gaians

Cybernetic Consciousness: AI controlled humans. Tends to be one of the stronger AIs ironically.

Pirates: The name says it all. Also tends to run amok as an AI despite a growth penalty due to all the free real estate in the ocean.

Angels: A democratic/anarchist hacking faction. Another meant to be seen as morally good faction.

Free drones: Industrial pseudo communist worker's paradise faction. Can gain cities that revolt from other factions

Caretakers: The 'good' environmentally conscious aliens, although neither alien faction is depicted as giving much of a crap about humans in lore or in game. Prefers stagnation to the risks of using planet.

Usurpers: The 'bad' aliens who seek to activate Planet.

 

[Tablet County]

Actually no he is a pretty decent archetype of a Chinese Legalist.

>implying the chinese aren't aliens

 

[iceteayo]

Im gonna go agasint the grain and say Gaians as maybe ill be able to get a girl friend who dresses like shes from ancient Greece but is a big hippie....what do you mean the worms aren't some sort of STD

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Morgan Nwabudike = Sound economics
Gaia's Stepdaughters = Because they literally live on a living planet, what are they supposed to do?

Godwinson = Theocracies tend to have less sincere religiosity IRL, constrain people's ability to make their own personal connection to God
Zakharov = Technocracy/bureaucracy is a horrible way to try to promote scientific inquiry (this is something a lot of Star Trek style shitlibs do not understand)
Spartans = Military might is a means to an end, not the point of life
Peacekeepers = Faggots
Human Hive = Kill with fire

 

[Tablet County]

Im gonna go agasint the grain and say Gaians as maybe ill be able to get a girl friend who dresses like shes from ancient Greece but is a big hippie....what do you mean the worms aren't some sort of STD

Hey the worms are actually bro-tier once you figure out how to communicate with them.

 

[Spider Princess Fan]

The YOLO answer - my boy, Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang himself and his glorious Human Hive.
The Sensible answer - Saaar Lal
The True answer - Gaians, under any other conditions they would be just a bunch of stupid hippies, but reality of life on Alpha Centauri clearly makes them the best adapted to what awaits you, you won't have to struggle for survival ( or be buck broken by the mindraping worms ) if you are one with the global ecosystem itself.

The fucking Pajeet of all people might be the most neutral and inoffensive of the leaders. As fucking gay and reatded as the U.N. is at least he won't demand I trust the soyence and join the Datalink against my will nor is he gonna make me buy his shitty DRM encrusted Morgan Industries tablet.

Isn't it just funny, for a very long time I never had any respect for him, the proverbial pain the butt for everyone else, the fucking pajeet that dares to stand up and say that I am being silly and a bit extreme, but then, is he wrong? Everyone is a bit extreme, everyone does outreach and tries to be a control freak, but for saying that he will forever be ostracized and hated, because if there's one thing that people universally hate, it's when someone disagrees with them, Pravin Lal is truly the Pagliacci of this story.

 

[Zorak Prison Pod]

Reddit didn't exist when I first played this game, but when I read the description of the University faction I knew I was looking at Reddit: The Faction.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

Reddit didn't exist when I first played this game, but when I read the description of the University faction I knew I was looking at Reddit: The Faction.

Nah the university gets things right