Zero Hours Contracts Of Employment

[trip2themoon]

In January I started a new full-time job (where I still work) and was given a 40 hour contract. That means I work 5 8.5 hour shifts and get paid for 8. The half hour lunch break being unpaid.

Before I started my new job I worked for many years in my local taxi company's call centre on a zero hour contract. We worked off a 2 weekly rota and were paid every second Wednesday. I had 2 shifts a week on the so-called permanent rota and to make that up to a half decent wage I would have to hope to be allocated overtime (made available when people took their holidays) and maybe get the odd call out if someone called off ill.

It really is a shitty way to live because you don't know how much your wage in the future will be and that made future planning pretty difficult. The owner lives in luxury whilst his staff are struggling by. There's a large sportswear chain here in the UK called Sports Direct, owned by the billionaire Mike Ashley. Mr Ashley lives in luxury whilst all his shop staff are on zero hour contracts.

Apologies for the tl;dr but my reason for posting this is: There are people from all over the world in these forums and I was wondering if the zero hour contract was a British thing or are there people in other parts of the world struggling by on no guaranteed hours week by week. I'd be really interested in others' thoughts and experience with working on these horrible contracts.

There's a bill in the House of Commons just now for the abolition of the zero hour contract. It's a long way off being ratified but I really hope it's passed. It would great to see people like my old boss or Mike Ashley have to treat their staff fairly for a change. Thanks for reading.

 

[Ravenor]

If you want a bit of history about Zero Hour contracts I'll fill you in;

Essentially they started as a means to have a specialist staff member on the books to cut down on red tape in some professions (think medical, teaching etc) so they could be on call an available at short notice, and they totterd along just fine like that for about 20 years then around 2009 during the economic down turn some bright spark in a HR department (If you own a box of Tetly tea take a look for the logo to find out who they are) noticed a few zero hour contracts during a company acquisition and it took the company by storm as a way to "Right size" a work force per shift.

Once the word got around the HR circles every scummy employer thought hey, you know the cleaners that are on minimum wage working 20 hours a week that have a staff turn over problem? Let's give them these zero hour contracts and if they don't like it they can leave, it then spread into retail in places like Asda, Tesco etc. Places that have a high turn over of staff an crappy working conditions an even worse contracts of employment as a way to control the staff by making them uncertain about the job market an less likely to jump ship as a uncertain paycheck is better than no paycheck.

What started as a way around complex vetting rules for people (in the UK the rules are byzantine for some kinds of vetting) was spotted an abuse in the most foul way.

 

[Null]

Apologies for the tl;dr but my reason for posting this is: There are people from all over the world in these forums and I was wondering if the zero hour contract was a British thing or are there people in other parts of the world struggling by on no guaranteed hours week by week. I'd be really interested in others' thoughts and experience with working on these horrible contracts.

All low income wages in America operate like this. You have to fight for hours in fast food, restaurants, convenience stores, etc. Basically anything that doesn't have a ladder or a skillset can hire or fire you on a whim and give you whatever hours they want.

 

[Vitriol]

In January I started a new full-time job (where I still work) and was given a 40 hour contract. That means I work 5 8.5 hour shifts and get paid for 8. The half hour lunch break being unpaid.

Before I started my new job I worked for many years in my local taxi company's call centre on a zero hour contract. We worked off a 2 weekly rota and were paid every second Wednesday. I had 2 shifts a week on the so-called permanent rota and to make that up to a half decent wage I would have to hope to be allocated overtime (made available when people took their holidays) and maybe get the odd call out if someone called off ill.

It really is a shitty way to live because you don't know how much your wage in the future will be and that made future planning pretty difficult. The owner lives in luxury whilst his staff are struggling by. There's a large sportswear chain here in the UK called Sports Direct, owned by the billionaire Mike Ashley. Mr Ashley lives in luxury whilst all his shop staff are on zero hour contracts.

Apologies for the tl;dr but my reason for posting this is: There are people from all over the world in these forums and I was wondering if the zero hour contract was a British thing or are there people in other parts of the world struggling by on no guaranteed hours week by week. I'd be really interested in others' thoughts and experience with working on these horrible contracts.

There's a bill in the House of Commons just now for the abolition of the zero hour contract. It's a long way off being ratified but I really hope it passed. It would great to see people like my old boss or Mike Ashley have to treat their staff fairly for a change. Thanks for reading.

I'm in the uk as well and have had a great many clients complain about 0 hour contracts. While I agree with you that they're utter shit that bilk will never become effective law even if by some miracle it makes it onto statute books.

Now big companies have woken up to the loophole closing it while retaining the original purpose (as ravenor described above) is going to be almost impossible.

Its like tax avoidance, the gov can cut down on it but there are many lawyers who make a living finding holes in the system. These lawyers far outnumber the people drafting the laws. After every new tax law there are a few months of higher revenues then a return to normal as these teams find ways round. By the time the weaker work around have been rejected in court stronger ones have been found and the law needs changing again. Happens every 10-15 years. Eventually the law becomes so complex its almost unworkable, at this point it is 'condensed' is simplified and a ton of new holes open up and the process repeats itself. This happens every 30-40 years. At the moment insurance in Scotland is going through this and land law is about too.

Sadly with these things once the genie is out it is very hard to get it back in. With the money they save on 0hours companies can afford far better lawyers than the gov and more of them.

0hours contracts is essentially how employment worked before unions and workers rights. It has analogs all over the world and its amazing the UK managed to restrict them for so long.

Edited to add extra info.

 

[trip2themoon]

Thanks Ravenor, that was really intersting. I had no idea these contracts went back so far.

All low income wages in America operate like this. You have to fight for hours in fast food, restaurants, convenience stores, etc. Basically anything that doesn't have a ladder or a skillset can hire or fire you on a whim and give you whatever hours they want.

In my old job your age determines your hourly rate. Saturday night being the busiest and most horrible shift of their week there were people working that night who were getting quite a bit less than me because they were under 20. That also meant when the available overtime for the next few weeks was emailed out, if me and one of the younger staff both applied for the same extra shift I was less likely to get it because I cost more.

When I left in January instead of givng the 4 much needed shifts to the other staff who were screaming out for shifts, the owner hired 3 new staff, all under 20.

I'm starting to realise that I'm quite lucky to be guaranteed 40 hours a week.

This is slightly off the original topic but pertaining to employment. I was hoping someone could give some info/advice.

On Friday night I was talking to a friend of mine who I haven't spoke to in about a year. She told me she had been sacked from her job in Morrisons (large UK supermarket chain). She had been off sick and her boss wanted her to call in every day to give updates on her illness. One of the days she forgot to call in and they sent her a letter saying don't come back. She'd been in that shop since it opened in 2005 so you'd think that for a long term employee they would have some sort of disciplinary procedure in place before termination of employment. I wonder if she has any claim for unfair dismissal? I don't know her track record for timekeeping and attendance, so there is a chance she may have been given a final warning. It seems a bit snide to sack a 10 year worker by letter and not even asking her in for a chat at least.

I feel bad for her because things are a lot worse now when it comes to claiming your unemployment benefits (Jobseekers Allowance) since I was last out of work. You get your payment once every two weeks but if your Job Centre adviser feels you haven't been doing enough to find work in the two weeks prior to receiving your payment they can dock a weeks money off you. I think Jobseekers Allowance for over 25s these days is £75 per week.

 

[Ravenor]

The short answer is, She might I know Morrisons are starting to feel the pinch and are trying to cut staff numbers to compensate.
If she had a persistent history of illness and was off for a long time they might have been within there rights to terminate her contract, but if she was genuinely ill and had a good reason not to call like hospital treatment etc she might have have a case and the fact they broke disciplinary procedure would have a case tell her to got to the CAB and see what they have to say.

Oh and your friend might be unlucky if your in a Universal Credit area, the pay is monthly and works out slightly less than the old JSA payments.

 

[trip2themoon]

The short answer is, She might I know Morrisons are starting to feel the pinch and are trying to cut staff numbers to compensate.
If she had a persistent history of illness and was off for a long time they might have been within there rights to terminate her contract, but if she was genuinely ill and had a good reason not to call like hospital treatment etc she might have have a case and the fact they broke disciplinary procedure would have a case tell her to got to the CAB and see what they have to say.

Oh and your friend might be unlucky if your in a Universal Credit area, the pay is monthly and works out slightly less than the old JSA payments.

Thanks for your info.
I just remembered that about two years ago she was in hospital for a while. I can't remember why but she was quite ill and was off work for a few months. Her boss would have to be a right sick fucker to use that against her.

 

[Ravenor]

Thanks for your info.
I just remembered that about two years ago she was in hospital for a while. I can't remember why but she was quite ill and was off work for a few months. Her boss would have to be a right sick fucker to use that against her.

By persistent I mean regular with in a year % of time off to time scheduled to work, there is a metric used for medical absenteeism but I can't for the life of me recall what it's called as it hadn't come up often for me in 10 years of doing business.
I used a employment law specialist when ever I had HR problems but thankfully for me they only cropped up a handful of times.

As I said the best bet for your friend is to go to the CAB and don't skimp on the details they will be able to give her a better idea if she has a claim or not.

 

[trip2themoon]

By persistent I mean regular with in a year % of time off to time scheduled to work, there is a metric used for medical absenteeism but I can't for the life of me recall what it's called as it hadn't come up often for me in 10 years of doing business.
I used a employment law specialist when ever I had HR problems but thankfully for me they only cropped up a handful of times.

As I said the best bet for your friend is to go to the CAB and don't skimp on the details they will be able to give her a better idea if she has a claim or not.

Thanks.
Before I talk to her about unfair dismissal claims I'll ask her what her timekeeping ,attendance and disciplinary record are like. Her older brother (who's also a good friend from way back) works in the same shop and she says they are starting to take this piss out of him now with extra work loads and shitty shift patterns. Her brother has always been a quite shy and quiet type. Not the kind of person to speak up if he feels he's being wronged. I hope things aren't too bad for him. Like his sister he's been there since the shop opened 10 years ago. Morrisons don't do zero hour contracts but they have all the staff on part time which is 20 hours (I think).

 

[Vitriol]

CAB is excellent i've worked closely with them in the past.

its impossible to give legal advice over the internet with only second hand knowledge but CAB should be able to sort her out.

On what you've given alone there is an automatic right to in house appeal as she has been working since 2005 but beyond that i would need further info. Ravenor is right CAB is your friends best bet.

 

[trip2themoon]

Ooops, I'm talking shit. She didn't start working there when it opened, that was her brother. She used to work in my town's other Morrisons shop. It was about a year after the new one opened she moved to it. That's still about nine years though.

Thanks for all you info everyone.

Vitriol: Thanks. I'm on the 11pm finish tomorrow evening, I get a quiet spell between 8pm and half 9, I'll try and get more info from her tomorrow when I'm at work. I'm loving having full internet access at my work PC. The boss doesn't mind us using it when it's quiet.

 

[Watcher]

All low income wages in America operate like this. You have to fight for hours in fast food, restaurants, convenience stores, etc. Basically anything that doesn't have a ladder or a skillset can hire or fire you on a whim and give you whatever hours they want.

Yeah this

When I worked at a gas station I was given gradually less and less hours because my employer hired more people. Eventually I was just put on an "on-call" position which was akin to just giving me the sack.