"Zero Punctuation" and "Dev Diary" by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw - The only thing worth watching on The Escapist

[Strangolapreti]

I'm pretty sure this whole topic of difficulty modifiers only change the amount of damage you and your enemy takes has been discussed for so long it predates every single version of skyrim.
Hell, arcade games had difficulty modifiers, and they almost always did the same things: spawning more enemies, making them faster, giving them more hp, shoot more bullets while you have a shorter timer and take more damage from them.
Its an issue so old its to be considered a standard in the game industry, and anything that differs from them, i.e.: new/alternative patterns/stages has to be considered the exception.
Naming convention too is quite an interesting topic, and I agree that more devs should point out what's the intended difficulty, either by directly pointing it out to the players or by doing what IWBTG does by mocking you for picking "normal" difficulty over "hard", but once again, its a pretty dated topic.

Something I just remembered now about this topic is that Taito arcade games did also included an extra difficulty modifier that would work under the table, for no purpose but ensure you would die and spend extra coins.

Take for example Bubble Bobble, the more extra lives and secret doors you get, the faster the enemies become and the less the time they spend trapped into bubbles, altering the game settings to increase difficulty simply increases how quickly you get to this difficulty rank.

The reason this brilliant kind of design has never been pulled again is pretty simple: it punishes good playing and reward playing bad, and its sole purpose was for the game to get your precious sheckles, so it was permanently discarded and never re-used again or rather, the last time a game added this kind of shit was balan wonderworld, which was a dogshit game for way too many reasons, and the whole thing of adjusting difficulty under the curtains was the little kernel of corn on top of the dungpie that was balan wonderworld.

 

[Wraithdolf the White]

Taito arcade games

I forgot, but years ago I think I sniffed them out as (((taito))) and not just taito, so that type of mean spirited logic fits.

 

[Strangolapreti]

I forgot, but years ago I think I sniffed them out as (((taito))) and not just taito, so that type of mean spirited logic fits.

What's arguably the most elaborated evolution of Taito's difficulty ranking system is Demon Souls's character and world tendencies: the only reason it was only mostly disliked, instead of universally disliked is the fact that you have additional ways of manipulating it such as killing yourself in the Nexus or engaging in pvp, but even then its a shitty system that would and work better if you had more practical ways to manipulate it but, at that point, you might as well just use basic difficulty selection or collectables that increases game difficulty like the bell demon in Sekiro, the issue is not the difficulty modifier, its what is done to make the game "harder".
The truth about the "play well, game gets hard" system is that it's a lot like communism™: people may try to convince you that TRUE ADAPTIVE DIFFICULTY™ hasn't already been tried, when the truth is that it failed already multiple fucking times, it cannot work, will never work and the people who criticizes direct difficulty modifiers (or no difficulty) in favour of it are lamenting a flawed system while promoting a downright broken one.
TL;DR:

ound this on Nitter: Yahtzee is complaining about ableism in games:

Game journalist ben "yathzee" crowshaw is a fucking retard, this whole wordsalad of his is fucking retarded and if he had any integrity he should kill himself.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I think in relation to the specific 'pain mode' where save spots are single use you do not run that as your first playthrough. Usually games do not start with 'kick you in the balls' difficulty levels as normal, it is a cheap way to add challenge and replayability to a game.

Yeah but the conversation was about initial difficulty. You are free to use gay modifiers on later playthroughs, though I always found save limiting just encourage very defensive behaviour that's boring in most games.

What's arguably the most elaborated evolution of Taito's difficulty ranking system is Demon Souls's character and world tendencies: the only reason it was only mostly disliked, instead of universally disliked is the fact that you have additional ways of manipulating it such as killing yourself in the Nexus or engaging in pvp, but even then its a shitty system that would and work better if you had more practical ways to manipulate it but, at that point, you might as well just use basic difficulty selection or collectables that increases game difficulty like the bell demon in Sekiro, the issue is not the difficulty modifier, its what is done to make the game "harder".
The truth about the "play well, game gets hard" system is that it's a lot like communism™: people may try to convince you that TRUE ADAPTIVE DIFFICULTY™ hasn't already been tried, when the truth is that it failed already multiple fucking times, it cannot work, will never work and the people who criticizes direct difficulty modifiers (or no difficulty) in favour of it are lamenting a flawed system while promoting a downright broken one.
TL;DR:

Game journalist ben "yathzee" crowshaw is a fucking retard, this whole wordsalad of his is fucking retarded and if he had any integrity he should kill himself.

Game journos just want someone else to change the difficulty for them so they won't be forced to admit for playing on journo mode. Which is very funny when games hide big features behind difficulty like DMC 5's soundtrack happening on combo chains, so journos argued the game has no music.

Adaptive difficulty is yet another game concept that only works in theory. Imagine playing a sport and having weights tied to you midgame for being too good, rather than some agreed upon disadvantage.

Also I wouldn't put Demon's Souls world tendency here since it punishes bad play rather than good play.

 

[Strangolapreti]

Also I wouldn't put Demon's Souls world tendency here since it punishes bad play rather than good play.

You do get less drops in white tendency, I can easily call it a punishment.

Adaptive difficulty is yet another game concept that only works in theory.

That's exactly why I compared it to communism. Faggots will tell you "but real communism has never been tried yet" without ever explaining nor understanding why. Game journos will tell you the same about adaptive difficulty. They are both wrong and should fell ashamed of it.

Imagine playing a sport and having weights tied to you midgame for being too good, rather than some agreed upon disadvantage.

I can actually imagine something like that: if sportsball were "adaptive", the serving would be perfomand to the losing team.
Take a soccer match, each time the field is set, the ball starts in possession of the team with the lowest score and, in case of parity, ball ownership before the whistle is decided by coin toss.
Same could apply for football, volleyball, tennis and so on so forth.
I'm no sport expert, but I got an hunch that if one were to propose this kind of shit, they'd be called a retard and a nigger.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

You do get less drops in white tendency, I can easily call it a punishment.

The whole system is bizarre and its bigger crime is having a lot of plot and items that you will never see without somehow realizing it exists or read about it online.

I can actually imagine something like that: if sportsball were "adaptive", the serving would be perfomand to the losing team.
Take a soccer match, each time the field is set, the ball starts in possession of the team with the lowest score and, in case of parity, ball ownership before the whistle is decided by coin toss.
Same could apply for football, volleyball, tennis and so on so forth.
I'm no sport expert, but I got an hunch that if one were to propose this kind of shit, they'd be called a retard and a nigger.

A lot of sports do have some disadvantage for weaker teams, but those usually temporary. If you do something like add weights for the stronger team, a legitimate strategy would be for one team to play badly until the other team gets penalized and then abuse it to rack up a high score.

 

[Strangolapreti]

The whole system is bizarre and its bigger crime is having a lot of plot and items that you will never see without somehow realizing it exists or read about it online.

At this point, game devs with a midly popular catalogue or a decent fanbase can start making games with the expectatons that someone will make a wiki about it, thus they can add a lot of weird ass drops in as many hidden locations as they can.
Mind you, most of these wikis end up incomplete and/or wrong, only a few titles manage to get attention, so you create an incredible amount of division between popular and unpopular titles.

 

[Green Kitbash]

The second X-Com should have been a closed case on why adaptive difficulty should never have been tried again. Yet ever 5 or 6 years a big game tries it again and fails for the exact reasons that game failed.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

The video game difficulty situation should be solved with identifying the default difficulty. Doom 1993's is "Hurt me plenty", if you can't hack it, play an easier difficulty. If you find it too easy, switch to a harder level. You shouldn't find out that hard is too hard too much into the game.

The real problem is that Yahtzee sucks at video games now and doesn't want the game to be judged on playing easy mode. Complaining about locked achievements or cut storyline could be fixed by checking the game's wiki.

 

[Strangolapreti]

The second X-Com should have been a closed case on why adaptive difficulty should never have been tried again. Yet ever 5 or 6 years a big game tries it again and fails for the exact reasons that game failed.

X-com has adaptive difficulty?

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Late on the discussion, but House of the Dead had adaptive difficulty, too. It would gradually increase the difficulty, regardless of initial setting, until you took damage.

(Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Pp3NwiOiU&t=143)

@Wraithdolf the White was spot on in calling it "mean spirited".

 

[30+GameOvers]

It can't be said enough, early Yahtzee would be ashamed of what he became today. Looked at some of his earlier reviews, he always sucked at video games and had shit taste but at least he could make/take a joke back then. Not surprised he is now openly crying about games being too hard for his California rotted boomer brain, next he will be complaining that the game doesn't play itself like a soyny fanboy.

The video game difficulty situation should be solved with identifying the default difficulty. Doom 1993's is "Hurt me plenty", if you can't hack it, play an easier difficulty. If you find it too easy, switch to a harder level. You shouldn't find out that hard is too hard too much into the game.

The real problem is that Yahtzee sucks at video games now and doesn't want the game to be judged on playing easy mode. Complaining about locked achievements or cut storyline could be fixed by checking the game's wiki.

Video games got it right early on, I don't see how being able to select your experience at the start is ever a bad thing. That said, many games don't tell you what differentiates one mode from another, or inform you that you won't unlock certain rewards/endings/achievements, which they should.

 

[Toxinophile]

Thought I'd give it a watch but 10 minutes is too much for what is almost certain to be "if you don't enjoy the game don't play it to completion", which is an obvious advice and just a coverup for Yahtzee not getting a constant dopamine rush and congratulations on solving puzzles for 6 year olds so he rage quits and plays some indie "game" about depression.

The main thesis was more like "You should stop engaging with a game if it becomes a dull obligation." He's definitely got the mindset of a dopamine addict if his claim of playing the NYTimes crossword games for over 600 days straight is anything to go by.

Him choosing to do it about Mewgenics is the interesting part. It's not a standard roguelite he can use the excuse of "my 40 year old ass doesn't have the reaction time/personal time to finish". It's a turn based tactics games with a lot of esoteric elements that you'd think would be the cup of tea for a pseudo intellectual, that he can just leave midway if something comes up.

I'll give Yahtz this; Even by roguelike standards, Mewgenics is an unforgiving game that does not respect your time. I've got 120+ hours so far and I'm only 59% of the way completed. This game's metaprogression can be ungodly slow at times. Another point against Mewgenics is that the RNG is heavily against you, to the point that perfectly good runs can be ruined at moment's notice. I wholeheartedly believe Yahtzee is a pseud but I also believe his reasons for dropping Mewgenics are fine, especially if he's playing the game in his free time.

But like I said, he needs that constant dopamine and validation, and actually investing time in getting good in a game over a length of time is against that. So he needs 10 minute big brained justification for quitting

Actually I'd say Yahtzee is more of a slave to routine if anything else. I guess with his weekly schedule that's been going on for almost 19 years so far, quickly picking up and dropping games is a lot more normal to him. I'd also say it's not that much of a big brained idea for a video, since it took him this long to become self-aware to this obvious fact.

 

[Wraithdolf the White]

Late on the discussion, but House of the Dead had adaptive difficulty, too. It would gradually increase the difficulty, regardless of initial setting, until you took damage.

(Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Pp3NwiOiU&t=143)

@Wraithdolf the White was spot on in calling it "mean spirited".

I forget who the streamer was, but some vg guy was talking about how some shmup games would do bad stuff to you. One was how I think some shmups, don't think many, would check you if you had too many power ups (I know for a fact Insector X from (((taito))) does this on the genesis,) and another would check to see how fast you were hitting the fire button and make life difficult for you as a result.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

I think dark souls and elden ring are attrociously dogshit badly designed games but I do respect them for not having difficulty setting and demonstrating to the world that you can be extremely punishing and still make money and have a fanbase, if not in spite of the "difficulty", quite literally because of it due to creating a shared communal sense of pseudo accomplishment.

I mean if anything that's the best argument against difficulty settings from a "games as art" perspective, the communal shared experience everyone has that actually lets the community grow. If you and someone else beat a hard boss, you both know that even if one of you cheesed it, you still did it in the same sandbox with the same framework and "rules" that they did, giving you something to talk over. Its a community experience built on somewhat shared struggle instead of a strictly personalized one without it.

The modern gaming industry rips off absolutely everything that's even remotely popular, its quite weird that this is the one lesson they didn't learn from fromsoft.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The main thesis was more like "You should stop engaging with a game if it becomes a dull obligation." He's definitely got the mindset of a dopamine addict if his claim of playing the NYTimes crossword games for over 600 days straight is anything to go by.

Isn't it the same? Issue is that he is a paid game reviewer so every game he plays IS an obligation. It's not some youtuber that can say he stopped playing midway, it's a grown adult not doing his job because he finds it boring.

I'll give Yahtz this; Even by roguelike standards, Mewgenics is an unforgiving game that does not respect your time. I've got 120+ hours so far and I'm only 59% of the way completed. This game's metaprogression can be ungodly slow at times. Another point against Mewgenics is that the RNG is heavily against you, to the point that perfectly good runs can be ruined at moment's notice. I wholeheartedly believe Yahtzee is a pseud but I also believe his reasons for dropping Mewgenics are fine, especially if he's playing the game in his free time.

Mewgenics is interesting in being the essential "Anti Reviewer game". Its premise is so retarded that it falls on pure gameplay. No lore, no atmosphere, no plot. If Yahtzee really did play the bare minimum of it to shit out a review, it shows he only likes to talk about game design but hates gaming itself.

Actually I'd say Yahtzee is more of a slave to routine if anything else. I guess with his weekly schedule that's been going on for almost 19 years so far, quickly picking up and dropping games is a lot more normal to him. I'd also say it's not that much of a big brained idea for a video, since it took him this long to become self-aware to this obvious fact.

He is just scared of a backlash. If he doesn't have the time to play he should just say it rather than do disingenuous reviews based on YouTube videos. And if he is bad at games he should say it rather than argue that they'd be made for his skill level.

I think dark souls and elden ring are attrociously dogshit badly designed games but I do respect them for not having difficulty setting and demonstrating to the world that you can be extremely punishing and still make money and have a fanbase, if not in spite of the "difficulty", quite literally because of it due to creating a shared communal sense of pseudo accomplishment.

I mean if anything that's the best argument against difficulty settings from a "games as art" perspective, the communal shared experience everyone has that actually lets the community grow. If you and someone else beat a hard boss, you both know that even if one of you cheesed it, you still did it in the same sandbox with the same framework and "rules" that they did, giving you something to talk over. Its a community experience built on somewhat shared struggle instead of a strictly personalized one without it.

The modern gaming industry rips off absolutely everything that's even remotely popular, its quite weird that this is the one lesson they didn't learn from fromsoft.

After Dark Souls got popular you had a lot of tourists who behaved as if they always liked the games and that they actually completed it on their own without cheese builds.

Modern industry doesn't want to risk difficulty because it alienates too many people, especially women. Better to stick to cinematic games where the player has the illusion of participation.

 

[Strangolapreti]

It can't be said enough, early Yahtzee would be ashamed of what he became today.

I really wanna know where exactly old yahtzee ends and curent yathzhee began, because I remember clearly his Freedom planet review ending by pulling an Orange man bad.

After Dark Souls got popular you had a lot of tourists who behaved as if they always liked the games and that they actually completed it on their own without cheese builds.

Don't worry, even regular ds fans are insufferable.
Talking about personal experience, italy had this content creator called sabaku who became sort of an italian equivalent to Vaativydia but realy he's the encyclopedic definition of pretentious, also a spineless liar and a retard.

Modern industry doesn't want to risk difficulty because it alienates too many people, especially women. Better to stick to cinematic games where the player has the illusion of participation.

This shit hasn't been exactly new, triple A titles have learnt trough the decades how to attune their games in order to appeal to a specific demographic of retards and, once done, a succesful company simply milks it until the cow has turned into a withered husk, and then proceed to grind the husk into powder and sell it too.
You can see the attuning process almost in real-time by tracing what changes done between each fallout/tes game released under bethesda, while for the milking, ubislop and acktivision are perfect representations.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

I forget who the streamer was, but some vg guy was talking about how some shmup games would do bad stuff to you. One was how I think some shmups, don't think many, would check you if you had too many power ups (I know for a fact Insector X from (((taito))) does this on the genesis,) and another would check to see how fast you were hitting the fire button and make life difficult for you as a result.

In SHMUPs that is called a Grade system.

The game will have a set of factors that determine enemy density, aggression, bring in new patters or more waves of enemies and which bullet patterns bosses fire and how those behave.

If you want to avoid the worst bullshit in that genre, look at comments about the Grade in a game.

 

[30+GameOvers]

I really wanna know where exactly old yahtzee ends and curent yathzhee began, because I remember clearly his Freedom planet review ending by pulling an Orange man bad.

I'm currently watching his old reviews, and as of 2011, he ain't that bad. If I recall, just like many along with him, he cracked during Gamergate and he "chose a side". I will see if his 2013/14 reviews take a nosedive in quality.

 

[Penne Dreadful]

I'll give Yahtz this; Even by roguelike standards, Mewgenics is an unforgiving game that does not respect your time. I've got 120+ hours so far and I'm only 59% of the way completed. This game's metaprogression can be ungodly slow at times. Another point against Mewgenics is that the RNG is heavily against you, to the point that perfectly good runs can be ruined at moment's notice. I wholeheartedly believe Yahtzee is a pseud but I also believe his reasons for dropping Mewgenics are fine, especially if he's playing the game in his free time.

Wasn't the point of his video the opposite - he's still playing Mewgenics and appreciating the ephemerality of the runs and cats divorced from the meta-context? No clue why this one, with its very heavy meta progression, is the one that clicked with him in a more Roguelike than Rogue-lite fashion, but that was what I took out of the video - going at Mewgenics runs was what gave him the peace of mind to break his crossword streak.

I'm not sure exactly how far he got into the game, but it seemed to me that he's at least mid-way through act II given all the references to Hell, so this definitely isn't the common situation of a journo (including Yahtzee in the past) making references entirely to the first area.