"Zoomer" Catholics - And Why They Are The Way The Way

not william stenchever said:
Some people on some level know that they are NPCs and seek paths others have followed to feel less empty inside.
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if that were the case here, they'd simply be reading bible verses and attending church every week and that's it. being a meek follower doesn't make you an obnoxious larping attention whore like these guys are.
 
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DumbDude42 said:
if that were the case here, they'd simply be reading bible verses and attending church every week and that's it. being a meek follower doesn't make you an obnoxious larping attention whore like these guys are.
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Oh I didn't mean they were attempting to become actual catholics. I meant they saw people LARPing as catholics and thought it was cool.
 
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From my experience, the Church I was a part of was Catholic, but never payed much lip service to the Vatican or the Pope. The Pope only really speaks infallibly on maters of faith anyhow. He can be wrong about a number of other things outside of that. The LARPers aren't great, but if even a fraction of those LARPers actually end up as converts than I can't see that as anything but a net positive. Catholicism has more perks than just a set of morals you can laud over non-believers: it answers a lot of questions currently unsolved by modern science, like "who made the universe, and are we alone in it?". You get answers to other questions like "where do our concepts of love, justice, and human rights come from?". In a more practical sense it can also provide your life with some much needed structure. You can go to a place once a week, meet up with other people in your neighborhood. You can also get some free food, leave your kids there as a daycare, and participate in a bunch of holiday events like Easter egg hunts, Halloween, & Christmas parties.

The alternative world, the one we live in that rejects tradition and religion, is significantly less fulfilling. In fact I'd say people are more worse off now than before. At least in the past people would feel things, like guilt or shame, for over-indulging in their bad habits. Yet now people act like slovenly, vain, glutenous sluts without any feeling of remorse. As long as "The Science" says it's alright, their conscious is not troubled.
 
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Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
It's un-American bootlicking faggotry. The Know Nothings should have won and sent all Papist bastards to Europe like they want to live in.
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The Catechism of Baltimore teaches that patriotism is a virtue. LARPers can go to Vatican City to live though, yes.
XYZpdq said:
iirc even then he has to do a song and dance to go Infallible Mode, it's not 24/7 active
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Last time was 1950. Pope Pius XII in order to define the new dogma on the Virgin Mary's assumption into Heaven invoked it. That was the only time it's been invoked in the entire history of the Church (this is counting St. Peter). If the Pope isn't speaking ex cathedra and on a matter of faith or morals that is to followed by every member of the Church, then it's infallible.
 
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EnemyStand said:
The Catechism of Baltimore teaches that patriotism is a virtue. LARPers can go to Vatican City to live though, yes.
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The thing I find un-American and with it, and mind I know a huge chunk of the country is Catholic and are good Americans, fought and died for the country like everybody else, I'm just speaking to what I think is the spirit of it, is that it's this centralized church were all the authority is in the hands of a guy who reigns like a monarch. And of course for somebody who believes in the faith it's a matter of faith, either it's true or it isn't. As an outsider, I feel like that centralization and the fanciness of it is at odds with the American spirit of individualism. Similarly, I think aspects of the liturgy are much more European-minded (I analogize liturgical services to classical music and extemporaneous/participatory services to jazz).

It's really a lot bigger of a problem with the LARPers, because while my grumbling about it is just a matter of tastes (Catholics aren't a political threat to anybody anymore) the LARPers do make a conscious choice to shun foundational and indigenous American religious movements in favor of a very alien aesthetic and set of ideals, one that even colonial-era Catholics didn't really have, and then drape a US flag over it anyways. I'm sure you know what i mean, like the types who are real into Crusades and Inquisitions and stuff like that, but they converted because it was "based" rather than because they believe in it. And on occasion I do interact with people who are conservatives, but their set of conservative ideals seems totally different from mine because they just come from a Trad Cath view which cares a lot about stupid shit like contraception and not much about things like liberty and local autonomy. It gives me a suspicion of Catholics who are not just casually political and religious but are really into their Catholicism specifically, if that makes any sense. I kind of see it like I do Jews, they were always here, but they went at some point from being a religious minority out of the mainstream to lording over the country (Jews and Catholics run the Supreme Court, if you ever see church depicted on TV it's a Catholic church, etc).

When I've tried reading the Old Testament it has often disappointed me because I just feel like I'm reading something written from the mind of a ancient desert nomad Hebrew for the benefit of another ancient desert nomad Hebrew, it is so much a product of its culture that I can't just overlook it to feel I went to my first Mass ever the other day (I sometimes do a bit of religious tourism, you might say) and I had a similar feeling, beautiful artwork and ornate architecture but it felt like something that would come from the mind of a king trying to intimidate and overawe a feudal serf, not from the mind of a God. So is my own denomination experiences, I guess, but the difference there I think is I feel like those are in sync with what i want the culture around me to look like instead of being completely at odds with it.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
The thing I find un-American and with it, and mind I know a huge chunk of the country is Catholic and are good Americans, fought and died for the country like everybody else, I'm just speaking to what I think is the spirit of it, is that it's this centralized church were all the authority is in the hands of a guy who reigns like a monarch. And of course for somebody who believes in the faith it's a matter of faith, either it's true or it isn't. As an outsider, I feel like that centralization and the fanciness of it is at odds with the American spirit of individualism. Similarly, I think aspects of the liturgy are much more European-minded (I analogize liturgical services to classical music and extemporaneous/participatory services to jazz).
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Well, I find it hard to think it's un-American since the very spirit of America is following your own path. I don't consider the faithful (of any religion) to be any less American than you, nor do I think you're somehow more American than I am. The laws and spirit of the country apply to American Catholics just as the laws and spirit of Japan apply to Japanese Catholics (the few that exist, anyway). You also have to understand, the Pope is merely the visible head of the Church. He, like all the faithful, take their marching orders from God (or are supposed to, we all sin after all). Each church is also slightly different depending on the country. Catholicism isn't quite as rigid as people believe, although our Catechisms tend to be more or less the same. My point is, as Catholics we essentially have "dual citizenship." We are called to be loyal to the Church, yes, but also we are expected to be loyal to our country. The Pope is my spiritual leader, but the President is my country's leader.
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
It's really a lot bigger of a problem with the LARPers, because while my grumbling about it is just a matter of tastes (Catholics aren't a political threat to anybody anymore) the LARPers do make a conscious choice to shun foundational and indigenous American religious movements in favor of a very alien aesthetic and set of ideals, one that even colonial-era Catholics didn't really have, and then drape a US flag over it anyways. I'm sure you know what i mean, like the types who are real into Crusades and Inquisitions and stuff like that, but they converted because it was "based" rather than because they believe in it.
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I do, and they will be called to account for their sacrilege. Whether through Confession or at the end of their life depends solely on them, and I hope they read the Catechism and understand where they went wrong. It has a very "fuck you, Dad" vibe to it, similar to the fedora tippers. The Crusades and the Inquisition are a fascinating historical subject, but as you understand there is far more to being a Catholic than the "deus vult" stuff. It's fun to do it on here as a joke, though. I can't resist a lot of the time.
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
And on occasion I do interact with people who are conservatives, but their set of conservative ideals seems totally different from mine because they just come from a Trad Cath view which cares a lot about stupid shit like contraception and not much about things like liberty and local autonomy. It gives me a suspicion of Catholics who are not just casually political and religious but are really into their Catholicism specifically, if that makes any sense. I kind of see it like I do Jews, they were always here, but they went at some point from being a religious minority out of the mainstream to lording over the country (Jews and Catholics run the Supreme Court, if you ever see church depicted on TV it's a Catholic church, etc).
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Well, serious Catholics are going to be "really into" their faith because it's the best chance of salvation. As Catholics, we can't forget to be good citizens of our country. Things like no contraception may seem stupid to you, but using it is a sin (venial, but even those should be avoided if possible) as is sex outside of Matrimony. Those Catholics who wish to replace the US government with the Pope, however, are not following the values of the country itself which misses the point of the virtue of patriotism. As liberty and small government was laid out in the Constitution (the USA's "Holy Bible") we must remember to appreciate those values as they are the bedrock of our country. In the end, we will push for legislation that we believe is right, which as I stated before is a very American thing to do. It is also a Catholic thing to do, as we are called to extoll our religious virtues to the masses while setting a good example of not just our faith but also a good human being. We may disagree, but I hope you at least understand we're doing what we think is best same as you.

As for your point at Catholicism being a minority with oversized influence, this was recent. America was Protestant for a long, long time. The Church in the US grew due a couple of factors. 1. JFK who was a TradCath himself and assuaged the mostly Protestant US that he would not be controlled by the Vatican as he ran the country. EDIT: He was popular, so he got the Church some converts. 2. Secularization of the Protestant faiths. As the Protestants started to get more political (Lutherans and Unitarians went the farthest), it alienated some of their members and they returned to the Church. 3. The Sacrements. It's easy to set characterization shots during Confession or Communion, which not all Protestant faiths do. 4. Immigration from other countries. Protestants and Catholics dislike each other, Europe is heavily Protestant, so America appealed to Catholics in the 20th century which influenced demographic change. Catholics fled the atheist Communism in the Soviet blocs. Italians wanted to live in a better country. Irish fleeing the Troubles and the Famine. It was incremental, but since the Protestant faiths are composed of multiple sects that don't always get along, the more united Catholic church overtook those demographics.
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
When I've tried reading the Old Testament it has often disappointed me because I just feel like I'm reading something written from the mind of a ancient desert nomad Hebrew for the benefit of another ancient desert nomad Hebrew, it is so much a product of its culture that I can't just overlook it to feel I went to my first Mass ever the other day (I sometimes do a bit of religious tourism, you might say) and I had a similar feeling, beautiful artwork and ornate architecture but it felt like something that would come from the mind of a king trying to intimidate and overawe a feudal serf, not from the mind of a God. So is my own denomination experiences, I guess, but the difference there I think is I feel like those are in sync with what i want the culture around me to look like instead of being completely at odds with it.
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Have you read the New Testament? It's the actual bedrock of our faith. The Old Testament is more of a "how we got here" and tells the stories of the pre-Christian figures who were important to building the later Christian faith. There are also a lot of different churches. Mine, for example is smaller and darker. There's ostentatiousness at the altar, but most of it is humble. The reason isn't just an attempt to awe (it is partially) but to attempt to also show the extreme, unknowable glory of God's grace. Since we believe there's nothing better than that...well...obviously we're going to trend towards the grandiose in an attempt to capture that. Especially since one of our values is to be humble before that grace. I get that most people don't like feeling small, but it's likely meant to evoke the smallness of being defended and cared for, like a child rather than an attempt to make you feel weak. I get that may not appeal to you, but it's the goal of the aesthetic. It's certainly possible it doesn't come from the mind of God Himself, but the inspiration of the Holy Ghost led to the design in the human mind.
 
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Roman Catholicism isn't too terrible. However, a great portion of the theology is Aristotelian rhetoric and non-traditional rituals for the sake of making laymen reliant upon the Church for all spiritual needs.

The Anglican and Lutheran churches are good alternatives, especially when you consider that the American LARP'ers have strong ethnic and cultural ties to both churches, unlike Roman Catholicism which has been thoroughly purged from our lands for over half a millennium.
 
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