Undertale

[HumanHive]

>”nothing you do matters”
>but if you force others to act for you...

 

[mario if smoke weed]

KINO
OF
THE
YEAR

Especially the hospital scene.


View attachment 2550606

Now's your chance to be a big shot, be a big be a big be a big shot!

I'm calling it that's going to be one of the next big Deltarune memes.

 

[Ἥλιος]

I know nobody really cares but I'm going to give my opinions on Chapter 2 anyways.
I really liked Chapter 2. The humor was always on point and very funny, except for that dumb NPC with that dumb political message that was already mentioned in this thread.
The main thing I dislike is the Noelle x Susie ship, which feels very forced. It's Alphys x Undyne but worse, because at least the latter gets relegated to the last parts of the pacifist playthrough, and unlike others I didn't find Alphys particularly annoying. Now, however, it's present since practically the beginning of the game. And unlike Alphys, most of Noelle's personality is just "I like Susie".
I also like Ralsei's character much more now. I was kind of "eh" with him in Chapter 1, but he's really grown on me. I guess this is because he isn't that much of an "uwu softboi" now (at least compared to Chapter 1). The scene with Kris in the swan boat in the acid lake was kind of weird, though, considering that Ralsei obviously has something to do with Kris' brother, Asriel. Also, I don't think he's evil, but he definitely knows more than he lets on. I think him and Kris (when not "possesed" by the player) are planning something, and the whole "the dark fountains are evil and will bring the destruction of the world" is false and is a cover for something else. Also, the ending scene pretty much confirms that "unpossesed" Kris is the Knight. (I still don't think he's evil, however)
Speaking of Kris, the hole shtick of using "they/them" pronouns on him is idiotic. His design is clearly masculine, but of course Toby Fox wanting to pander to/being part of the tumblrite community makes him "non-binary" or whatever.
I also like how my favourite character (Berdly) got part of the spotlight and somewhat of a redemption arc. He was also pretty funny as well. My favourite joke was when it was revealed that Queen isn't actually a gamer and only plays mobile games.
I was also surprised by the amount of romance that was in this chapter. By the time we get to the last chapter, everyone's going to be romantically interested in Susie.

 

[There Is Light At The End]

So, with deltarune chapter 2 launch, there will be less vilethepoop fuckadaboss art and more vore of that horse girl. I don't know which is worse

 

[Hmmpf!]

I got a glitch where if you play the game with Steam while finishes updating, the update stays at 99% waiting for the game to close. But the game itself will experience issues like previous background musics will not stop and graphical artifacts will show more often.

I got one where the comfy music of castle town + Hometown plays throughout the ending. Thought that was intentional, juxtaposition and such, until sensing something off then quit-reloading the game afterwards. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Magikoopa]

Noelle is basically everything that I've always been glad Ralsei isn't and having to spend so much time on her and Susie's budding Alphys & Undyne 2 romance subplot was tiring, even though the rest of the game just being wonderful had me in a good enough mood that I was able to go along with it. It kind of feels like Ralsei and Noelle are the same character written by two different writers of vastly differing talent, even though I know it's all probably Toby (and his bully tomboy/sweet shygril fixation). It wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't for the chapter release format, if it was the whole game it'd be OK but in the first taste of deltarune for three years, that much time spent on Noelle is just god damn

I was prepared to be grumpy about how Berdly was being written because in chapter 1 he showed genuine concern when you got stuck with Susie while here he's just an oblivious, annoying faggot, but his deal became clear pretty quick and in the end I'm surprised so many people I know still just hate him. Not to mention the dude can get fucked up for real trying to do what's right unlike everyone else

Honestly at this point I feel like Deltarune is already blowing Undertale out of the water and it's easy to see why the latter was just a side ho to Toby. I loved the queen as soon as she showed up, the way they played with the music in the cyber city was great, and I'm glad I could lavish Ralsei with attention and affection and have it taken entirely the way I wanted it to instead of just having the expected cop out where he misinterprets it and unintentionally friend zones you

 

[bugbear]

I hate how repetitive the characters in this series seem to be getting. This is the third time we've had a dorky villain who is a freak with no friends and is treating their villainy more like a weird playdate. First we've had Papyrus, then Lancer, and now we have Lancer with boobs. I mean, sure, the queen is fun, but it feels like Toby is playing it very safe with the characters.

Also, I just hope that we don't end up with an annoying love triangle. The way things are going, we will have a Berdley/Noelle/Susie triangle. Let's just hope that the dialogue choices you make are just flavor text and that Kris doesn't join the fucking triangle as well. I hope doesn't get as bad as the 1st game's anime obsessed lizards.

Other than that, I love the new gameplay. It feels like a natural progression of the previous games. It's much more complex, and more challenging. The return of genocide route and sparing enemies turning into a sort of collectathon were also welcome additions.

The characters, both old and new are still as entertaining as ever. Watching them all interact is still the highlight of the game.

 

[Coelacanth]

Wasn't a fan of this chapter. Not surprised the more tumblr-esque SJW stuff is creeping in considering some people in the credits are from Fangamer. Toby's roots are in starmen.net - which has pretty much parroted the SJW mantras for years. Didn't like the Susie and Noelle romance either. It bored me - if you're gonna do a romance between characters regardless of their genders at least make it important to the goddamn plot.

Did like the style of Spamton Neo's fight - it's very WarioWare-esque visually. Kinda felt the NGE reference was hamfisted though.

Most of the OST for this one was a flop for me except, of course, Spamton Neo's theme. Insert obligatory NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO BE A BIG SHOT! here.

 

[Spamton]

I don't have the motivation to play this myself so i watched some stuff that was more interesting.
I just want to see what they do with the whole soul thing and kris.
I'm most interested in finding out if the normal kris that's not controlled by the player is 'evil' or not. I'm really fond of the route of being an evil influence though.

 

[MightyBiteySnake]

People need to calm down with the evil Ralsei theories fr. Toby loves to subvert expectations but he's also it exactly subtle

 

[Dumpster dived waifu]

Just finished playing through pacifist and watching the genocide differences. Overall, I thought the game was pretty good. The new themes were nice, the new battle mechanics were pretty fun even if I took way more damage than I should have because I'm a sped on keyboard controls, and I liked the plot.

That said, there were some things I thought were genuinely bad. I felt like the game gave me way too many items or offered to sell me stuff I didn't want/need way too often, I don't think I used more than a single item throughout the playthrough. Also, the Kris they stuff was weird as shit and obnoxious. I don't necessarily care that Toby wants to keep Kris' gender neutral for whatever reason, but every time they popped up it was jarring and ruined the scene because I kept thinking that the characters were referring to multiple people or somebody else even though the context points to Kris. Honestly, just have everyone refer to Kris as Kris, it's less weird.

I somehow missed the political line thing you guys mentioned, but overall I don't think it's even that bad if it was a one off vague line about politics.

 

[Liquid Marlon]

I hate how repetitive the characters in this series seem to be getting. This is the third time we've had a dorky villain who is a freak with no friends and is treating their villainy more like a weird playdate. First we've had Papyrus, then Lancer, and now we have Lancer with boobs.

And that's not even it, there's also Mettaton, Rouxls, Berdly and etc.

But with each one of those characters (excluding the queen) are side antagonists and not the main big bad.

That's why the queen feels like a downgrade from the prior main villains in the series, especially her once husband who despite having exponentially less screen time and only one boss, had a bigger impact because of him being such a breath of fresh air.

 

[Gru]

Also, the Kris they stuff was weird as shit and obnoxious. I don't necessarily care that Toby wants to keep Kris' gender neutral for whatever reason, but every time they popped up it was jarring and ruined the scene because I kept thinking that the characters were referring to multiple people or somebody else even though the context points to Kris. Honestly, just have everyone refer to Kris as Kris, it's less weird.

That's exactly how it was done in Chapter 1, everybody just referred to Kris as, well, Kris, and it didn't throw me out of any of the scenes because the game wasn't trying to force anything down my throat.

But now Chapter 2 comes in and is trying to force the nonbinary they shit down my throat and it takes me out of all the scenes, like you said. Thankfully from what I know of Chapter 1 the lang.json files the game's script was in were just in a folder without having to check through the .exe's files itself. It's probably the same with Chapter 2 unless Toby did some bullshit there so it'll probably be easy for somebody to just mod the game with some text edits to go back to the Chapter 1 format of writing around Kris.

 

[Spamton]

rewatching a more in depth analysis, I feel like Kris isn't the bad person here.

The idea of making the dark fountain probably stemmed from the whole thing susie said, and kris's treatment of the soul in both endings shows we could potentially be interfering.

however, the knight thing could be taken as bad, as the forming of the fountains could cause the whole titan thing to happen.
if anything the role kris has as the knight would imply more motivation to go on with the creation of fountains too.

Imagine if the player, an external soul, was introduced into Kris to prevent all that and simply destroy the dark worlds by any means necessary?

 

[Alter Ego]

Speaking of Kris, the hole shtick of using "they/them" pronouns on him is idiotic. His design is clearly masculine, but of course Toby Fox wanting to pander to/being part of the tumblrite community makes him "non-binary" or whatever.

That's exactly how it was done in Chapter 1, everybody just referred to Kris as, well, Kris, and it didn't throw me out of any of the scenes because the game wasn't trying to force anything down my throat.

But now Chapter 2 comes in and is trying to force the nonbinary they shit down my throat and it takes me out of all the scenes, like you said. Thankfully from what I know of Chapter 1 the lang.json files the game's script was in were just in a folder without having to check through the .exe's files itself. It's probably the same with Chapter 2 unless Toby did some bullshit there so it'll probably be easy for somebody to just mod the game with some text edits to go back to the Chapter 1 format of writing around Kris.

I detest the "non-binary" fad (maybe even more so than standard trannies) and have no doubt that Toby's in the woke cult that propagates it, but the impression I have is that Kris' is just an innocent repeat of Frisk's concept from 2015: a player-character made simplistically androgynous for both male and female players to project onto, meaning that you'll always be correct whether you say the character is a boy or a girl. While it's true that Kris does appear to be more masculine than Frisk, there's still enough ambiguity, especially next to Susie who we would've absolutely interpreted to be a boy if her name wasn't fuckin' Susie. So far, it seems to me that there's been just as much restraint in calling Kris singular "they" as there was for Frisk, although dialogue could've been written to avoid pronouns altogether.

On the other hand, I do realize that the major difference between the games' protagonists is that Kris is established immediately to be divorced from the player with a backstory and set name used repeatedly while the player is meant to believe in being Frisk.

On another note now that I've played Chapter 2 myself, I really wish Ralsei kept the hat. Same goes for Susie's hair to a lesser extent.

 

[Anstiv]

Played Chapter 2, I thought it was great. Played it a second time for the genocide run as well. The writing is still great, Toby always manages to hit those warm comfy feels in ever game he makes.

I've continued to engage with the game the same way as I have since the first one, I completely avoid everything everyone else says about it, both positive and negative. I probably won't even really be reading much of this thead. The worst part of the games by far is the discussion and communities surrounding it.

But yeah Chapter 2 was great. I really liked it. It starts a little slow but after the first little bit it moves along at a good pace.

The genocide route is worth playing, the boss there is the only difficult enemy from the whole chapter. Fun boss though, definitely check out the route.

 

[Gru]

I detest the "non-binary" fad (maybe even more so than standard trannies) and have no doubt that Toby's in the woke cult that propagates it, but the impression I have is that Kris' is just an innocent repeat of Frisk's concept from 2015: a player-character made simplistically androgynous for both male and female players to project onto, meaning that you'll always be correct whether you say the character is a boy or a girl. While it's true that Kris does appear to be more masculine than Frisk, there's still enough ambiguity, especially next to Susie who we would've absolutely interpreted to be a boy if her name wasn't fuckin' Susie. So far, it seems to me that there's been just as much restraint in calling Kris singular "they" as there was for Frisk, although dialogue could've been written to avoid pronouns altogether.

I do agree with you to an extent, but it's the fact that it wasn't done in Chapter 1 at all that gets me, and I can't remember a single instance of Undertale referring to Frisk as "they", only stuff like "the human", maybe I'm blanking on it but it just seems like it's a change that's been forced in more than anything.

If this were a game published before the woke era and it had the same issue, I'd just find it odd, but I feel like there's more at play here, especially since it's something that only happened after Toby made a team. It's also been three years since Chapter 1 so maybe he just decided that suddenly Kris is nonbinary between chapters. Which in that case I'd expect a troon in Chapter 3 minimum.

a player-character made simplistically androgynous for both male and female players to project onto, meaning that you'll always be correct whether you say the character is a boy or a girl.

The thing is with this, you literally can't call Kris a boy or a girl after this chapter, because everywhere I've looked the woke brigade "corrects" anyone who uses the wrong pronouns.

It's like a magical switch is flipped the moment a character is referred to as "they", and suddenly all rational discussion flies out of the window with these people, the character MUST be nonbinary, to say otherwise is goddamn BIGOTRY, YOU BIGOT.

I'd love to give the benefit of the doubt here more than anyone, Chapter 1 is easily my favorite of Toby's work, and quite honestly my favorite game of 2018, but so much has changed in the three years since then that anything is possible, and to be fair this is a minor issue in the grand scheme of things, I do still really like Chapter 2, even with my gripes with it, I especially love how the gameplay's been refined and improved, but it just worries me the picture that paints for future chapters if they start sliding further down the deep end.

 

[Alter Ego]

I do agree with you to an extent, but it's the fact that it wasn't done in Chapter 1 at all that gets me, and I can't remember a single instance of Undertale referring to Frisk as "they", only stuff like "the human", maybe I'm blanking on it but it just seems like it's a change that's been forced in more than anything.

...

It's like a magical switch is flipped the moment a character is referred to as "they", and suddenly all rational discussion flies out of the window with these people, the character MUST be nonbinary, to say otherwise is goddamn BIGOTRY, YOU BIGOT.

I'm certain that it happened in Undertale at least once. I think it was from Sans in the snow area making a side remark about Frisk being deadpan or some such.

You're absolutely right, though, that there are now places in which you can't simply refer to Kris as "he" without causing a commotion, and that's very unfortunate. And if it hasn't happened already, Toby is probably getting pressured by Twitter and game journos to explicitly announce that Kris is "non-binary" rather than merely ambiguous.

 

[fu͏nny]

Spamton posting > jevil posting

 

[X-Shaped Weeaboo]

Toby is probably getting pressured by Twitter and game journos to explicitly announce that Kris is "non-binary" rather than merely ambiguous.

I really don't care for this discourse on pronouns in Deltarune because honestly, thematically, it actually makes some amount of sense and is also so sparingly used that I almost didn't even notice it, but I absolutely in almost full confidence am convinced that nothing is going to get Toby to cave to anything.

Say what you want about him, but that man is very dedicated his vision. I highly doubt something as petty as addressing Kris' pronouns is the type of headstrong conversation/controversy for him to suddenly pivot what's going on in his head.

I mean, people were iffy on the SusieXNoelle ship when it was a fandom push and that dude still made it canon. Yeah, I doubt he's curtailing to pressure from anywhere right now.