Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[behindyourightnow]

Highly ironic given the famous work of lesbian vampire fiction that predates Dracula, Sheridan Le Fanu's "Carmilla"
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Carmilla is much better than Dracula, anyway.

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Oh no!!! Lesbians are exhibiting "bigoted hate speech" by talking about how autogynephilic men pressure them into sex. Literally every lesbian I know, myself included, has at least one story of a time when a "trans woman" attempted to pressure them into sex (and countless stories about autogynephiles being creepy towards them). It's like they don't realize that lesbians are minorities and men with weird fetishies aren't.
I'm sure Olly's comment is idiotic but I'm American so I don't know what he's talking about (Brits please explain, thanks).

Sometimes Olly posts something so obnoxiously stupid that I'm at a loss for words and I just wait for someone else to post it.

Notice the way he phrases his complaint as well: letting us know "incidentally" that he has a friend at the BBC and he is privy to inside info. You can tell that his sense of importance and his class entitlement is a big part of his seething. How dare the BBC not agree with me at all times? I am very important! The nerve, talking to lesbians who probably did not even go to a nice school!

Another sign that, after gay marriage was granted, all these troons took over. You have to admire how, in under five years, the troons have achieved far more than the LGB has in over fifty years of activism.

Because the LGB actually had to overcome discrimination, whereas the T (or at least, the big movers behind the T movement) are just spicy heterosexuals who like to wear unusual clothes. Of course they will quickly and easily find tolerance among the powerful.

(holding on to that tolerance might be another issue, since they can't go five minutes without calling women cunts and defending rapists, but that is another issue)

 

[AfghanBlue]

i think the gender colonist idea is pretty bang on the money.
i have, literally never yet heard him say anything positive about women, yet there are countless examples of him mocking them both individually, as caricatures and as various sects.

good old divide and conquer.
he has the same urge to divest those that he thinks unworthy of what they have, because they aren’t making the most of it? because he’s always chasing what he’s been told he won’t or can’t ever have?
i mean, in some vague way.
no one has ever said outright.
maybe that’s why he’s always bitching on about the cis bogeyman even though no one actually cares what he personally or what other troons do, as long as they don’t try to actively take.

 

[AssignedEva]

Notice the way he phrases his complaint as well: letting us know "incidentally" that he has a friend at the BBC and he is privy to inside info. You can tell that his sense of importance and his class entitlement is a big part of his seething. How dare the BBC not agree with me at all times? I am very important! The nerve, talking to lesbians who probably did not even go to a nice school!

I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's really funny if that he is what he's doing. I know three people who work for the BBC, it's not a badge of honour; there's over 20k BBC employees in the UK and loads of them are concentrated in London (there's about 7,000 people working in Broadcasting House alone). Go to any pub in Fitzrovia or any bar in Soho and you'll pretty much inevitably run into someone who works for Auntie after a while.

 

[behindyourightnow]

I agree that it is definitely not as high status as he thinks it is. But the way he forces the unnecessary anecdote in there, complete with an obviously made-up quote (who talks like that?) makes me think he is trying to present himself as some sort of Important Media Insider who is connected to the BBC and not just seething about it like a commoner.

 

[AntiStan23]

Again, what kind of BBC are we talking about?

 

[narcissistic injury]

No, not talking about "Thai ladyboys" or whatever symbolism you mean by that. There's a whole discussion on that, but it's not a Kiwi Farms discussion.

Only for context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

I do agree that a true gender self-assessment could never work for Olly or most of the Western Trans population, but not for the dumb and blinded reasons you cite. I've been personally harassed by hijras on a Mumbai train, and it's not fun, it was literally a #metoo moment. But that's just moreso the high relief cartoon of the situation rather than how most people in that situation around the world live. So talking about them, or the cartoons of Thai ladyboys...it's not why Olly and his ilk are awful. It's just a lazy way to explain why Olly is so awful.

The reason Western trans folks will never actually follow the good anti-colonialist example of Eastern third-gender folks is because they are colonists themselves. They are gender colonists. They want to take over another gender, not create a new one. Olly is a gender colonist, and himself a gender genocidist. He knows he is not a British woman, he knows he is not an English duchess. But he appropriates the behaviors, the clothes, and the voice of an English woman...and wants the rewards.

And that is the whole problem, and it's a problem he himself identifies in others (is that why he's so skilled in performing the problem for his own benefit?).

Olly has pretenses as a Messiah of transfolks, and for women. And he has arrogance as an actor. All Olly really has, though, is a blunt tool edge as an "okay" character actor, and a good understanding of how to fleece an audience as a vaudevillian showman. He is not a woman. He is not even really pretending to be, he's only pretending to pretend to be a woman. It's working, and it's profitiable.

I say it's a colonizers' attitude toward gender, and I say it's a very Western idea of binary gender, that Olly is profiting off of. It's sick.

Omg you’ve had experiences with Hijras?!? Please share more deets - I’ve only read about them online and it’s always about their victim hood and living on fringes of society or about how there has always been diversity in gender expression as evidenced by the existence of hijras

 

[Mistress of Troon]

I didn't double post, I don't think?

You're just ignoring everything I said with the rest of your comment, and it won't be too useful for me to respond except in a limited sense:

It's not a hidden fact that in many non-Western cultures biological men and women are given passage into "third" genders, an identity where there is no invasion into biological sex or biological sex terminology -- no transwomen who pretend they are actual birth-giving women, etc. -- and there is only a mutually beneficial gender diversion into people who don't identify as either man or woman, and have some other role.

That seems pretty healthy to me!

And that healthy "third" gender option seems antithetical to whatever it is Olly is doing...which seems very unhealthy to me. Olly is literally demanding to be a woman in a binary man/woman environment -- any shrugs he gives to non-binary or "third" gender folks is self-serving. He is Mrs. Doubtfiring all the way to the bank.

Look, I know I can get "spergy" at times! Believe me, I know!

In this case I think you're just ignorant, and lashing out. There are roads Olly could've taken to avoid being a gender colonist. He did not take them.

There is nothing "eastern" about that. A third gender is a typical appearance in very patriarchal cultures, but more rarely seen in matriarchal or egalitarian culture. South European cultures have traditionally always been more patriarchal than the more whimpy North European cultures. Yet the concept of a third gender was widespread in South Europe, but rarely or never seen in North Europe. The reason for this is because in the West, homosexuality and "genderfluidity" were separated, whereas in most cultures those are connected. Many of those so-called third genders are nothing more than very effiminate men who we would call homosexual and feminine (as in many indigenous North American cultures) or in the case of women to fill the role of the patriarch when no biological man is present (as the Sworn Virgins in Albania).
This, at the end, doesn't change the fact that all cultures have at least the distinction between female and male. Anything else is additional. The same goes for language: Even though ancient Jewish tradition distinguished between five genders, the language could only differentiate between female and male (at vs. atah/ you female vs. you male; hi' vs. hu' / she vs. he) , as in "all" Afro-Asiatic languages. It should also be added that for ancient Israelites an infertile women was considered a different gender from other women. This doesn't sound very progressive to me.
Furthermore the categories of male and female are stable in all cultures that span several millenia. The ancient Greeks had more or less the same idea of what a man/woman is as medieval and modern Greeks do. The "third gender", however, was only known to Ancient Greeks, but not today. Any additional gender is also highly connected to a specific culture. It was somewhat accepted among ancient Greeks, even though it was never taked that seriously. Now what happens when a different people with a different culture settles in your land, Slavic tribes for example? A third gender (beside other costumes like preslavic forms of signing, folklore or even tattooes) was only able to thrive in the most mountaineous regions of Albania, Macedonia and Bosnia, because their communities were smaller, better connected and less affected by slavic culture. And what about the Ottomans? They loved to diddle little boys, but it doesn't seem that they gave much importance to different "genders". The influence of Ottoman culture and Islam, which influenced all popluations in Southeast Europe who were under Ottoman rule, would probably have erased any remaining form of additional genders with the exception of the most isolated regions. Yet, we never see this kind of deconstruction for the categories of biological male and female categories. In India, the concept of Hijras probably emerged with the spread of Islam. But even there I know some Indian feminists who reject the third gender and see it as a patriarchal attack on Indian women.

The reason why we don't need a third gender in the West is because we have separated being feminine/masculine from being a woman/man. You can be a feminine man in a dress and nobody will question your biological sex. This is different from a very patriarchal culture like Iran: They prefer a man who troons out than an open homosexual man. Why? Because for many Iranians it's more taboo to break a code of masculinity (don't be gay) than a man pretending to be a woman (since the desire for men is considered a feminine trait). Even in many other places today it's totally legal to be a tranny, but being homosexual is punished by death.

In short, the reason for more than two "genders" in a culture are mostly as follows:

1) To divide labour (In such cultures there might be as much as five genders or even more. But this mostly exists in small tribal populations. I've never heard of such a system in larger populations who can't be ruled by a tribal system anymore)
2) To explain "deviant" behaviour or physiology. Examples are homosexual men or infertile women.

It's really annoying when every gender studies girl thinks that she's somehow enlightened now because she read about the Bugi tribe in Indonesia and their five genders. It might be smarter for western intellectuals to concentrate more on larger civilizations again and not bush tribes with less than 50 members. The Bible, Qur'an and Bhagavad Gita at least don't pay much attention to screaming bearded male freaks in a dress as much as people like Judtih Butler do.

And that's that. I'm not arguing about theoretical troons anymore. They're universally ridiculous, no matter how they're called or if they're in Mumbai or in Central England.

 

[Johan Hulth]

A lot of this trans Scotsmanning just seems to be based on the subjective of whether you like someone or not. Unpopular opinion but I think Olly actually passes somewhat better than Contra or Blaire White because he's not constantly bimbo-ing to such an extent, nor giving off the gross incel trap vibe of a Lilith Lovett type. Twat as he is, he's actually pretty high functioning for a cow. He's clearly got some acting roles on the go as well as churning out YT and Patreon stuff more consistently than his breadtube colleagues, for whom it's their sole occupation. His videos also have a sheen (in terms of pure image quality) far and above his contemporaries. And the fact he employs a crew of purely white people to produce them is poggers. By degenerate troon standards this guy is a boy scout.

Olly is funny because he's stuck trying to get a good grade in theatre class. But he's ripping off the most popular student to do it, and somehow getting away with it. But pride comes before a fall, and his ride back down is gonna be rocky. Nigga's unironically Shakespearean.

 

[Dr George Whitebread]

Olly has pretenses as a Messiah of transfolks, and for women. And he has arrogance as an actor. All Olly really has, though, is a blunt tool edge as an "okay" character actor, and a good understanding of how to fleece an audience as a vaudevillian showman. He is not a woman. He is not even really pretending to be, he's only pretending to pretend to be a woman. It's working, and it's profitiable.

Olly is basically doing exactly what certain (or what is possibly now the majority of) trans people have been doing since the birth of social media. Faking it. Lying in pursuit of personal gain. Before social media it was somewhat rare and at times respectable for people to transition and have it be an anomaly. It was a massive risk to take. Modern day troons have made me genuinely empathise with those before who had to actually suffer mentally in some capacity. Now it's openly a choice like flicking a lightswitch. Not saying they were all saints but it's more exploitable now than ever.

People like Olly are on the outside looking in and absolutely hate it. They're doing the equivalent of buying a pair skinny black jeans to fit in with the goths. Jim Sterling is a fantastic example. He makes friends with all these trannies, finds his politics are aligning perfectly with them, and is already an outlandish character. So he chooses to become transgender. BUT WAIT. Jim Sterling has a YouTube career. He obviously wants to wear wigs and act funny, but he forgot he had a brand to protect. He can't be a woman called Jim. So he chooses to be Non-Binary and change his middle name to something tres femme instead because that's not what is on his YouTube or his Patreon or what he's known as. He's had his cake of catering to the troons, and ate it too by keeping the "Jim Sterling" brand. He now gets to live the dream of getting endless praise from the people he likes while also fulfilling a fantasy of looking like the lovechild of Kathy Bates and a red leather handbag filled with butter without it being too weird.

Olly is essentially doing exactly that. He's already got his niche of trans flag waving ass kissers who'll be absolutely astonished that yet another famous face has come out as a brave wahman, he'll get his popularity bump for doing so, and not a single one of them will care that he's as transparent as glass that him being trans has nothing to do with his own mental wellbeing. He's even on record multiple times saying he has not had any symptoms that would lead someone to pursue transition naturally. This means that Olly gets to play pretend. He gets to prance around like Emily Davison thrusting herself into the King's Horse as a champion of women despite only being one for a month. He even gets to champion transgender rights not as a mere person in the stands, but on stage. He finally gets to be in the show. And the best part of it is? He's fucking bulletproof. No one wants to stick their neck out and call a spade a spade in the public arena. He could whip out his cock and do helicopters in a crowded pub and people won't care, it's just that quirky Abigail!

People like Olly (and Jim) are the reasons transphobia is so high. And the day they eventually come out and admit they're doing it for attention, it'll gain more respect to actual, suffering transgender people. Olly's shtick makes a lot more sense when you remember he's an aspiring actor. Abigail is a character he's playing.

 

[Rose_of_Troon]

Olly is funny because he's stuck trying to get a good grade in theatre class. But he's ripping off the most popular student to do it, and somehow getting away with it.

very that!

He's had his cake of catering to the troons, and ate it too by keeping the "Jim Sterling" brand. He now gets to live the dream of getting endless praise from the people he likes while also fulfilling a fantasy of looking like the lovechild of Kathy Bates and a red leather handbag filled with butter without it being too weird.

I‘m dying!

No one wants to stick their neck out and call a spade a spade in the public arena. He could whip out his cock and do helicopters in a crowded pub and people won't care, it's just that quirky Abigail!

Right. It’s a social media induced mass psychosis. It’s like in that Andersens‘s fairytale ‚The Emperor’s New Clothes‘. Everybody knows it’s a weird ripoff/shtick for attention but they are either afraid off coming across as troonsphobic or they are simply so gaslit by hyperwoke SJW’s that they can’t tell the difference anymore between a gendernonconformist and a genderdysphoric troon. And to be fair, they sometimes look the same at first glance. Yet the vibes of their personality are completely different and one has nothing to do with the other. Everybody knows this, but we are not allowed to say it. The rather amazing part of it all is, that troons like Abigail or Jim delude themselves into a state of mind where they can’t tell the difference anymore themselves. And that makes them cows, because the gravity of their reality loss is shocking and amusing at the same time. It’s camp. God knows we all love to gobble it up and laugh about it. It’s probably not very surprising that I’m generally pro troon, which includes actors like Abigail for me. Meaning I will not call her ‚Olly’ anymore and I support her right to crossdress publicly and to freely chose to be a whaman and have that on her ID and all that. But do I personally feel sorry for their self chosen path in life and view them as a victim of society or part of a marginalized group? Fuck no! And them claiming victimhood and trauma is really nothing but a pathetic joke to me. You are not oppressed! Stop gaslighting me into thinking otherwise.

 

[Ophelia Jones]

It’s a social media induced mass psychosis.

I think its more that people can't be bothered being pestered by troons so they just ignore them/ called them "they" and don't get too involved with them irl. Personally, I'd rather actually die than have an argument with a troon about gender when i'm out at the pub having a couple of drinks with mates. People have realised that their public shenanigans are attention seeking behaviour so they know better than to go along with it.

And on social media, normal people know that when they see annoying troons, they can just turn their phone/computer off. Thats why all the twitter arguments you see nowadays are between mentally ill trannies and massively autistic people.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

He's already got his niche of trans flag waving ass kissers who'll be absolutely astonished that yet another famous face has come out as a brave wahman, he'll get his popularity bump for doing so, and not a single one of them will care that he's as transparent as glass that him being trans has nothing to do with his own mental wellbeing.

I think it's worth noting that PhilosophyTube's subscriber growth seems to be leveling off lately. I checked the Social Blade stats, and the future projections have the channel just about doubling in the next 5 years (if the current trajectory remains constant), which in YouTube influencer terms, really isn't that impressive.

You have to wonder if the channel's subscribers quietly have misgivings about Thorn's decision to transition, and that this could begin to impact the channel's growth once the novelty wears off. I'll be honest, I can't watch their videos anymore without cringing at their voice and presentation, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[Rose_of_Troon]

I can't watch their videos anymore without cringing at their voice and presentation, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

me neither sis. It‘s been part of Thorns success story from the very beginning though. Her rejoicing in troondom is just the latest part in a yearlong online cringe-saga.

 

[Mistress of Troon]

I think its more that people can't be bothered being pestered by troons so they just ignore them/ called them "they" and don't get too involved with them irl. Personally, I'd rather actually die than have an argument with a troon about gender when i'm out at the pub having a couple of drinks with mates. People have realised that their public shenanigans are attention seeking behaviour so they know better than to go along with it.

Oh, definitely. Fortunately, I'm living in a country where toonery is still young. But I was onced asked by a transer what my pronouns are. This was one of the most uncomfortable situation in my entire life. In comparison, the sexual harassment I've exprienced in my life was a nuisance at worst, and somewhat entertaining or even hot at best.

I think it's worth noting that PhilosophyTube's subscriber growth seems to be leveling off lately. I checked the Social Blade stats, and the future projections have the channel just about doubling in the next 5 years (if the current trajectory remains constant), which in YouTube influencer terms, really isn't that impressive.

You're right, his post-transitioning subscriber "boom" in January was actually quite short-lived:

But this isn't that surprising to me. A man trooning out is for some leftists like an orgasm. But as with all orgasms, you want to experience them more than once. Furthermore too many people troon out now, since you really don't have to do a lot to be considered trans. But as with everything, this also lowers the value of a single trooning out. One YouTuber trooning out is a novelty, but when almost 10% of YouTube looks like troonland now, it's just not as intersting anymore.

You have to wonder if the channel's subscribers quietly have misgivings about Thorn's decision to transition, and that this could begin to impact the channel's growth once the novelty wears off. I'll be honest, I can't watch their videos anymore without cringing at their voice and presentation, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I'm not so sure about that. ContraPoints had his largest growth after transitioning. Nyk''s and Ollie's fanbase overlap significantly, I'd be surprised if many of his subscribers would be turnt off by his trooning out. I think the key factor in Ollie's case is that he has to mention it constantly and overplays his "womanhood", whereas ContraPoints was at least somewhat subtler. ContraPoints also appears like an altruist compared to Ollie's narcissism. We also have now much more "transwomen" than ever. When ContraPoints did troon out, it was still somewhat unusual for a political YouTuber to come out. But now, you have to offer more than just transitioning. It's similiar to the former anti-SJW "community": It was new and "interesting" at the beginning, but nobody wants to see an Antia Sarkeesian pawnage video in 2021.

 

[scathefire]

I think it's worth noting that PhilosophyTube's subscriber growth seems to be leveling off lately. I checked the Social Blade stats, and the future projections have the channel just about doubling in the next 5 years (if the current trajectory remains constant), which in YouTube influencer terms, really isn't that impressive.
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You have to wonder if the channel's subscribers quietly have misgivings about Thorn's decision to transition, and that this could begin to impact the channel's growth once the novelty wears off. I'll be honest, I can't watch their videos anymore without cringing at their voice and presentation, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

That's interesting, even Contra has way better growth than him even though he's been barely putting out content for the past 2 or so years whereas Olly has been churning those babies out like once every month.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

I'm not so sure about that. ContraPoints had his largest growth after transitioning. Nyk''s and Ollie's fanbase overlap significantly, I'd be surprised if many of his subscribers would be turnt off by his trooning out. I think the key factor in Ollie's case is that he has to mention it constantly and overplays his "womanhood", whereas ContraPoints was at least somewhat subtler. ContraPoints also appears like an altruist compared to Ollie's narcissism. We also have now much more "transwomen" than ever. When ContraPoints did troon out, it was still somewhat unusual for a political YouTuber to come out. But now, you have to offer more than just transitioning. It's similiar to the former anti-SJW "community": It was new and "interesting" at the beginning, but nobody wants to see an Antia Sarkeesian pawnage video in 2021.

I think the difference is that ContraPoints' decision to transition was somewhat expected, at least if you'd followed their crossdressing antics for the previous decade or so. Anyone who'd been a viewer of the channel for some time could have sensed that they might have eventually gone in that direction, and when the change finally did come, it was also much more subtle; you got the sense that there was a lot of emotion and hesitation along the way, even if you might still find reason to question the psychological motives behind it.

What makes PhilosophyTube's case that much more suspect for me is that it happened so suddenly, and in seeming contradiction to all of their past statements about themselves (such as claiming to be "cisgender", and to never have had gender dysphoria). The other suspicious thing is how much it mirrors ContraPoints' transition, right down to the video backdrops, makeup looks, and trite statements about whether or not they "feel like a woman". It just makes the whole thing seem calculated, performative, and insincere.

Another issue, which you have touched upon, is that Contra benefits from not only being the first Breadtuber to troon out, but also being the one who largely pioneered that style of video making. Trying to occupy a niche that someone else has cornered rarely works out.

 

[NationalBolshevik]

I'm sorry did someone on the last page say that this passes?


Passes the rugby ball maybe...

 

[Tombigbee]

^Still can’t believe he actually did this.

 

[Cr1ms0n_&_C10v3r]

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^Still can’t believe he actually did this.

Legs built like fucking colosseum pillars.

 

[Shotgun Badger]

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^Still can’t believe he actually did this.

You know when I see the real life images like this I just think that his makeup, hair, costuming and lighting people probably deserve twice as much as they make now.