Community Munchausen's by Internet (Malingerers, Munchies, Spoonies, etc) - Feigning Illnesses for Attention

[KiwiFarmerSimulator2021]

The "mental health awareness" bollocks predated this, but anxiety and depreshuns (and autism, and ADHD) aren't special enough anymore now that we're on a third generation of a massive chunk of the population being raised by screens and fast food - their resulting inability to cope with life and parents' lack of will to teach them at the developmentally appropriate time really has resulted in what used to be considered a pathological dysfunction. When everybody and their fucking brother has some questionable psych diagnosis, and goes to a therapist every week and maybe takes some benzos and stimulants too because why not, how special is it anymore, really? I suspect this is why munching and trooning out have started to become the new wave.

The exact phenomenon you're describing has turned mental health care, already by and large a minefield of bullshit, into an absolute joke filled with label-fixated mongs forming their identity around fake disorders, exceptional "mental health specialists" coddling the dysfunctional with unending asspats that make everything worse, giving anybody and everybody a tailor made excuse to avoid responsibility, and predatory scams. That is bad enough. But where does it leave the people who could really benefit from that help? Do you really think a severely bipolar or schizophrenic person is going to stick with a therapy group where they are surrounded by bunch of perfectly normal people with uwu tumblr anxiety and depresshuns whose biggest problem is getting nervous when they have to talk to a stranger? If the "treatment" is actually geared towards what is now the majority, would it do them any good if they did? Similarly, how can one even compare a basic bitch antidepressant or low-dose benzo with someone who takes multiple dirty antipsychotics and a mood stabilizer or two at maxed out doses where coping with the horrific side effects just creates a litany of new problems? A system geared towards dealing with the former is going to be horrifically unequipped to deal with the latter in any measure. The people with real psych issues who don't have the luxury of hiding in their parents' basement or living off Gofundme scams have to attempt to function in the world anyway, and unfortunately a lot of the time end up in and out of prison or dead with a needle in their arm for the trouble.

I don't think actual disabilities are something that a person should need to feel ashamed of, far from it. I don't see anything wrong with encouraging frank discussion. Collecting victim points and obsessing over labels and diagnoses however is harming actual sick and disabled people almost just as much as being an outright dick to them ever has.

Omg keep going im almost there.

I wish for an academic with nothing to lose to write an absolute evisceration of this new culture. A left wing academic in a respected journal.

 

[A tree]

Omg keep going im almost there.

I wish for an academic with nothing to lose to write an absolute evisceration of this new culture. A left wing academic in a respected journal.

Personal resilience needs to come into fashion. Not in a stupid pull yourself up by your bootstraps way but people have to stop looking at every issue they have in life as a permanent part of their identity.
It's perfectly possible to recover from all kinds of things and to have a functional and fulfilling life even if you're ill, depressed, disabled, autistic whatever.
Tfw hot wheels is more inspirational than 5000 chronic illness "campaigners".

 

[Thomas Eugene Paris]

The munchers have now branched that out to other conditions as they've started to realise you can't all have EDS and still claim its rare.

I think there may be an additional factor at play here. The staggering influx of previously healthy white twentysomething women seeking an hEDS diagnosis has really stressed many rheumatology departments, to such an extent that many are no longer accepting new patients with a diagnosis of hypermobility.

Here's an example communication from one rheumatology department that is no longer accepting physician referrals for patients with suspected EDS. Of particular interest is the line about providing access for "patients that we know we can help".

 

[Bibbity Bobbity]

Munchies often ask incredulously "do you seriously think anyone would choose to be ill!".

I don't think they consciously choose it, but a number of things contribute to gravitation toward munchiedom.

Munching means you get a label, and the right to be indignant about how underfunded/invisible/debilitating it is. Even better if your disease is "controversial" like Morgellon's. It defines what you are, but also! what other people are not.

You get a community, such as it is these days

You get a cause to fight for. You get to be a WARRIOR, a SURVIVOR!!!

You get to be an "expert", for your lived experience.

People who have kids, jobs and bills to pay generally don't have time for this kind of shit. But upper middle class white women who had everything handed to them, and now are expected to actually DO SOMETHING: Job, marriage, kids, anything. This is noping out. Perfect way to refuse.

Also: if cured, you lose your identity. So they never get cured.

 

[Pho Real]

I think there may be an additional factor at play here. The staggering influx of previously healthy white twentysomething women seeking an hEDS diagnosis has really stressed many rheumatology departments, to such an extent that many are no longer accepting new patients with a diagnosis of hypermobility.

Here's an example communication from one rheumatology department that is no longer accepting physician referrals for patients with suspected EDS. Of particular interest is the line about providing access for "patients that we know we can help".
View attachment 2700387View attachment 2700387

It’s really quite disheartening how much munchies have overtaxed the healthcare system, not only because of the effects on non-munchie patients but on providers and the general system as well. It’s not surprising at this point that providers see EDS and run.

The sad thing is that there are real, non-munchie EDS patients, though nowhere close to as many as social media makes it seem. Those patients can be helped (if they are willing to do their part and not make themselves sicker on purpose), but they get fucked over by the overwhelming majority of EDS fakers compared to real cases.

The EDS society certainly doesn’t help either, they perpetuate the victim/fatalistic perspective when disabling cases are few and far between. It’s pretty easy pick out the non-fakers imo: they don’t have social media or at least don’t have mentions of EDS on their socials. Seeing EDS/Fibro/POTS/GP/MCAS on an account is an immediate red flag for a munchie nowadays since it typically ends up being the case.

 

[SaturnBeforeSunset]

I think there may be an additional factor at play here. The staggering influx of previously healthy white twentysomething women seeking an hEDS diagnosis has really stressed many rheumatology departments, to such an extent that many are no longer accepting new patients with a diagnosis of hypermobility.

Here's an example communication from one rheumatology department that is no longer accepting physician referrals for patients with suspected EDS. Of particular interest is the line about providing access for "patients that we know we can help".
View attachment 2700387View attachment 2700387

You are consistently one of my favorite contributors on this thread (I’m assuming you work in healthcare!). My favorite part of munchie watching is seeing med folks responding directly to munchie behavior, whether about an IRL munch, a specific instance on socials, or just the general online phenomenon. I can’t get enough!!

 

[cuddle striker]

Black and/or poor people get long covid, mostly. It's more likely if medical attention was substandard or late to arrive.

These white girls are unlikely to have it, yet they're claiming it. It's not good, because it's a real collection of signs and symptoms that people are suffering from, but those who have it can't access care because it's being used up by people who don't have it.

In a perfect world, healthcare would be free at point of service and easy to access for everyone. But we are not in that world and resources are limited. Every one of these people is using up resources that actually disabled and ill people actually need.

 

[NoodleFucker3000]

"Long covid". It's called post viral fatigue and can happen to anyone, and with many viruses, it is not new or special. It commonly happens to ppl who get mono. Anyone using the phrase "long covid" is drinking msm koolaid.

 

[cuddle striker]

"Long covid". It's called post viral fatigue and can happen to anyone, and with many viruses, it is not new or special. It commonly happens to ppl who get mono. Anyone using the phrase "long covid" is drinking msm koolaid.

eh, it's from covid 19 and has different specific signs, so I'll go along with the term. postviral fatigue, elevated clotting enzymes and lung/nerve damage happen with this. mono tends to bring just fatigue.

other viruses have different sequela, they're all different when they cause post-infection problems. think chicken pox->shingles.

 

[Dnein]

Personal resilience needs to come into fashion. Not in a stupid pull yourself up by your bootstraps way but people have to stop looking at every issue they have in life as a permanent part of their identity.
It's perfectly possible to recover from all kinds of things and to have a functional and fulfilling life even if you're ill, depressed, disabled, autistic whatever.
Tfw hot wheels is more inspirational than 5000 chronic illness "campaigners".

This attitude absolutely plays a huge role. The "this is how god made me" excuse, or believing every action and trait is a unchangeable aspect of self/identity. I've noticed it in my personal subject, even in non-munching contexts. Literally lost their shit when someone asked them to be a little quieter because they were scaring a dog, because "YOU WANT TO CHANGE WHO I AM!".

Getting better is never, ever a consideration. Suggesting any effort towards improvement is pure rage. At this point, I'm beginning to think it might be the best way (as suggested above and in the posted paper) of weeding these people out. They simply won't get better, because they don't want to. They want to wallow in the fiction and the perceived benefits and excuses. Maybe they believe their own lies, but no one who started out truly ill wants to stay that way. Really is awfully simple.

I love how you worded that. Personal resilience. That's right where they'd go ("bootstraps"), but its really just personal responsibility to try. No one is saying people aren't sick out there, or everything can be cured, but ffs at least WANT to get better.

 

[A tree]

I think there may be an additional factor at play here. The staggering influx of previously healthy white twentysomething women seeking an hEDS diagnosis has really stressed many rheumatology departments, to such an extent that many are no longer accepting new patients with a diagnosis of hypermobility.

Here's an example communication from one rheumatology department that is no longer accepting physician referrals for patients with suspected EDS. Of particular interest is the line about providing access for "patients that we know we can help".
View attachment 2700387

Jeez they're going to miss someone with the bad EDS because of the sheer volume of wannabes.
Scary. And they're right. They can't help a patient with mild HEDS or benign hypermobility syndrome whatever the current terminology is. Only the patient can do that. Maintaining gentle excersize and strengthening plus keeping body weight down for the rest of your life is the least glamorous and medicalised course of treatment imaginable.
Might need looking at by a physio if there's an acute injury but the GP can do that referral.

 

[I am the Muffin Maker]

It’s really quite disheartening how much munchies have overtaxed the healthcare system, not only because of the effects on non-munchie patients but on providers and the general system as well. It’s not surprising at this point that providers see EDS and run.

The sad thing is that there are real, non-munchie EDS patients, though nowhere close to as many as social media makes it seem. Those patients can be helped (if they are willing to do their part and not make themselves sicker on purpose), but they get fucked over by the overwhelming majority of EDS fakers compared to real cases.

The EDS society certainly doesn’t help either, they perpetuate the victim/fatalistic perspective when disabling cases are few and far between. It’s pretty easy pick out the non-fakers imo: they don’t have social media or at least don’t have mentions of EDS on their socials. Seeing EDS/Fibro/POTS/GP/MCAS on an account is an immediate red flag for a munchie nowadays since it typically ends up being the case.

I mean. There is a genetic test for the major types of EDS. Vascular EDS is devastating - but I'm not sure there is anything to be done about it other than yearly cats scans to check for aortic aneurysms.

 

[latter day taint]

"Long covid". It's called post viral fatigue and can happen to anyone, and with many viruses, it is not new or special. It commonly happens to ppl who get mono. Anyone using the phrase "long covid" is drinking msm koolaid.

" Long COVID" often involves significant heart, lung, or neurological damage that can be diagnosed. A lot of munchies may try to claim it but to actually get treatment in any of the clinics that are studying it, there must be actual, verifiable damage to one or more systems.

 

[Thomas Eugene Paris]

Jeez they're going to miss someone with the bad EDS because of the sheer volume of wannabes.
Scary. And they're right. They can't help a patient with mild HEDS or benign hypermobility syndrome whatever the current terminology is. Only the patient can do that. Maintaining gentle excersize and strengthening plus keeping body weight down for the rest of your life is the least glamorous and medicalised course of treatment imaginable.
Might need looking at by a physio if there's an acute injury but the GP can do that referral.

I'm pretty sure that the other types of EDS would be seen in other departments (genetics, cardiology, gastroenterology), simply because of the body systems affected. Only the hypermobile type would need rheumatology.

No sense in wasting the rheumies' time with girls who don't want to grow up.

 

[KiwiFarmerSimulator2021]

" Long COVID" often involves significant heart, lung, or neurological damage that can be diagnosed. A lot of munchies may try to claim it but to actually get treatment in any of the clinics that are studying it, there must be actual, verifiable damage to one or more systems.

I would argue that long covid as a concept shouldn't exist and is dangerous. In the UK if you have had covid and have signs of, say, heart failure, you wont get sent to a cardiologist in the same it was pre pandemic. You now get sent to long covid clinics that are brand new services operating outside of normal processes and have zero evidence base in terms of service design. Theyre under funded and staffed by people dividing their time between their main job and long covid.

Its a label designed to satisfy a highly vocal politically motivated elite, and delays treating serious conditions.

I think long covid clinics have all the characteristics of a service with Mid Staffs scandal potential.

But criticising long covid just ends up with people shouting "long covid is real!". I think weve already explained in this thread over the last few days why that is.

 

[double second]

Regarding the mental health conversation- the frustrating thing is that the current trend is “recovery perspective”. We try to help people improve the issues they have as much as possible, promote resilience, promote developing an identity outside of illness, and working to live well regardless of a diagnosis. We want therapy to be short-term and meds to not be lifelong when those are realistic goals, because the idea is that the client learns the skills they need. It’s frustrating because it requires effort and motivation from the client and in the failure-to-launch-social-media-young-adult, that’s hard to come by. If a client isn’t open to recovery, I can try to convince them otherwise but there’s nothing else I can do to help them. If they don’t like my approach, they will find someone who will reinforce their permanent victim mentality. Either an unethical but properly licensed therapist who will over-diagnose and foster dependence and victim mentality or an unqualified POS taking advantage of the fact that the title of therapist is underprotected.

 

[KiwiFarmerSimulator2021]

Regarding the mental health conversation- the frustrating thing is that the current trend is “recovery perspective”. We try to help people improve the issues they have as much as possible, promote resilience, promote developing an identity outside of illness, and working to live well regardless of a diagnosis. We want therapy to be short-term and meds to not be lifelong when those are realistic goals, because the idea is that the client learns the skills they need. It’s frustrating because it requires effort and motivation from the client and in the failure-to-launch-social-media-young-adult, that’s hard to come by. If a client isn’t open to recovery, I can try to convince them otherwise but there’s nothing else I can do to help them. If they don’t like my approach, they will find someone who will reinforce their permanent victim mentality. Either an unethical but properly licensed therapist who will over-diagnose and foster dependence and victim mentality or an unqualified POS taking advantage of the fact that the title of therapist is underprotected.

The only skill they want therapists to have is the skill to know what validating nonsense they want to hear without them having to explain.

If they dont hear what they want to hear, they denounce the system as oppressive and racist because help, they say, is conditional on them educating society without financial compensation.

So my hypothesis is that some therapists create a bland validating narrative that they use to proactively defuse the chance of any hysteria. That narrative then becomes embedded in the culture of the profession, therapists lose the skill to operate beyond it, and anyone that cant perform that narrative either cant get better or is viewed as having abnornal illness behaviour.

Its the last bit that worries me. Someones inability to perform the narrative might end up being further medicalised, or anyone that resists it ends up moralised.

In the UK we have the PREVENT counter terrorism programme and i genuinely worry that 'progressive' therapists are starting to view center and center right views as evidence of radicalisation.

 

[RacerDee]

I think there's a whole system of difficulties presenting medical staff with munchers/malingerers/health anxious people. We have a very cure-oriented mindset in America, so even if a treatment is keeping something stable, many are just waiting for the day a magic penicillin-type cure comes along, and that's just not how things work.

 

[latter day taint]

I would argue that long covid as a concept shouldn't exist and is dangerous. In the UK if you have had covid and have signs of, say, heart failure, you wont get sent to a cardiologist in the same it was pre pandemic. You now get sent to long covid clinics that are brand new services operating outside of normal processes and have zero evidence base in terms of service design. Theyre under funded and staffed by people dividing their time between their main job and long covid.

Its a label designed to satisfy a highly vocal politically motivated elite, and delays treating serious conditions.

I think long covid clinics have all the characteristics of a service with Mid Staffs scandal potential.

But criticising long covid just ends up with people shouting "long covid is real!". I think weve already explained in this thread over the last few days why that is.

It is completely different in the US. Most of the ones here are at respected research hospitals that involve multidisciplinary teams of specialists who work with their primary care doctor to refer them for things like physical therapy.

Spoiler

It is actually interesting AF to watch the clinics here. Most of the folks have heart, lung, or kidney damage. They do a lot of physical therapy and occupational therapy in addition to drugs and other more invasive approaches.

 

[craven rutherfordium]

One of the problems with mental health care in the United States is that sometimes people just need a fucking break but can't afford to take unpaid leave from work.