Grace Lavery / Joseph Lavery & Daniel M. Lavery / Mallory Ortberg - "Straight with extra steps" couple trooning out to avoid "dwindling into mere heterosexuality"

[OttoWest]

This is some straight up Alok Vaid-Menon shit.

 

[Prescription Bugs]

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kids aren't innocent

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innocence is a myth

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kids' bodies should be free of their nasty parents dominating them with rules and stuff

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It’s always the damn fools who have spent next to no time with actual children or teenagers. I have a friend whose kid came to them utterly convinced he was trans. Yelled at the parents for not seeking out hormones that very week. “I’ve been trans for six years!” Kept at this for about four months. Very intense. The mom was like I guess this may be the real deal, but I’m going to base my decision on developmental psychology and my personal morality. She and her partner said no, then no again. No again and again. And we love you. We want you to work at feeling comfortable in your skin rather than a life of taking pills forever. Etc. The parents actually said, “In our family we don’t believe in transition under 18, even if it means worse results in the long run.”


A year later the kid is so glad they didn’t take hormones. Said it was a passing whim that felt so true at the time. Grateful that nothing happened and is attracted to the opposite sex and feels happy in their body. Before the kid had thought he was a lesbian girl. Oh and he’s also glad he only told a few friends because it was a real easy backtrack!!


This is the kind of stuff parents can only talk about with trusted friends. The parent couldn’t even seek therapy for the kid for fear the therapist would undermine everything the family stood for.


This is the reality of what Joe wants, undermining parents and making permanent decisions before kids are developmentally ready.

Anyone who has spent time with kids knows that it’s possible kids really are trans but it’s equally possible they aren’t. That age is notorious for being all over the place as they find their way forward.

My friend was crying real tears of gratitude that she had stuck with her instincts and said a firm NO rather than seeking out a gender clinic which had already begun transing a few kids they knew under 15.

There are just a few subjects that destroy all credibility for me when it comes to Joe. It’s transing kids and it’s the outing people (Johnny 3) with a mental health condition when they are in the beginning stages of seeking help from trusted people. Fine ruin your own life. Ruin your own body. Get tatted and nipped and dimpled and paunched, bald, and medical, and ridiculous. That’s your right. Go for it. But step OFF when it comes to kids. You know nothing.

 

[Mealy Mouth Spittle]

I simply cannot wrap my head around someone who says that kids can't consent to sex but they can consent to permanently altering their bodies in a vain attempt to become something which is biologically impossible. You have to be a grade A moron to think this makes any sense at all.

Kids can't consent to sex because they are too immature and the possible life altering outcome (of either needing an abortion or having a child) is simply too great a risk (then there is physical, mental, and emotional trauma that can occur when it is an adult raping the child). Teenagers, especially, are not known for their rational decision making and the ability to consider long term repercussions rather than their raging hormones. FFS, the frontal cortex isn't even fully developed until the age of 25!

But, gender delusion affirming care isn't just for teens. There is a push to get kids on puberty blockers -- so we are talking about trusting an 8 year old to make a major life decision. Only pedos are that interested in children having the right to bodily autonomy. Most normal people think it is perfectly fine for parents to make health decisions for their kids or for parents to try to keep kids from having sex until they are adults -- since sex is an adult activity. Only pedos get bent out of shape when the decisions parents make limit the access they get to kids or keep kids from being recruited to the rainbow brigade. Wanna troon out your kid? Stunning and brave and parents should support their kid's "decision". Say "no" to puberty blockers and programmer socks for little Timmy and you're trying to "control" your kid's body, you evil cis het transphobe!

I knew Joe had an overinflated ego, but I honestly didn't realize that the dude is actually fucking stupid. You just assume that surely someone couldn't make it into academia if he was a mouth breather. Joe and Rhys McKinnon have proven that you can be average IQ and get a job as a professor. Any degree that was earned in part with credits from one of his classes isn't worth the paper on which it was printed.

Since Joe doesn't have any children and he has obviously never matured enough to realize how dumb teenagers actually are, it is not surprising that he has such a moronic take on this. What is surprising is that he chooses to air his stupidity out in public and wave it around like it's something of which to be proud. Personally, I'm glad he's this dumb. Makes a TERF's job much, much easier when the troons say the quiet parts out loud.

 

[Ugandan discussions]

Not adding to the collective wisdom of the farms about Joe, but this amused when I saw it on teh twatter.

 

[Aelfled]

I knew Joe had an overinflated ego, but I honestly didn't realize that the dude is actually fucking stupid. You just assume that surely someone couldn't make it into academia if he was a mouth breather. Joe and Rhys McKinnon have proven that you can be average IQ and get a job as a professor. Any degree that was earned in part with credits from one of his classes isn't worth the paper on which it was printed.

As someone who studied literature to MA level at a well regarded university in the last 5 years, I can 100% confirm academia across all levels is full of muppets who have one thing they have read everything about (usually with a bias to simply confirm their particular niche argument which they will write numerous repetitive papers on) yet who know nothing about anything else. Particularly how little academic theory means to the practical, real world.

At least for interpretative subjects like literature, I found many professors and PhDs pile waffle upon waffle to 'prove' their subjective reading of a text. Essentially they can build an entire academic career upon personal beliefs. Their interpertation. Their opinions. So no wonder there are so many academic (and wannabe student) troons sacrificing at the alter of Judith Butler. It's the perfect match of overthinking and overpicking a big pile of waffly nothing that boils down, essentially, to "well I feel this way, so it's VALID!".

Joe's tedious ramblings remind me of so many queer theory essays I hate read as a student. Anything can be queered to mean anything but in a very specific way (aka use the right buzz words).

 

[GenderCop]

On UK Twitter Joe is so little known and unimportant in the grand scheme of things that a huge number of GC women have no idea who he is or that he's British. They think "who?", look at his profile, see Brooklyn NY, and conclude "some random US creep". I didn't know he was British until watching a video of him speaking (in his completely male voice)

Joe thinks he's so important to GCs as a big famous target, but we couldn't care less.

a terf i follow got into argument with someone who said (as so many do): "but nobody is claiming you can change biological sex!" and posted Joe's famous article as refutation.

reply from troon was -- this person Lavery is pro israel so:
1 - we don't have to listen
2 - they do not represent trans ppl since palestinians can be trans too (something like that, didn't understand it all, didn't screenshot & should have)
3 - they are racist if they support israel, by fiat, and therefore prob not really trans at all. Trans ppl NEVER RACIST!!!!

in sum: they refused to read the article, since it doesn't matter what a fake-trans racist says.

the terf was obv too surprised to respond.

but i think this hard-lefty unwittingly hit on the reason Joe is consigned to 2nd class status in hard-left transworld. Its bad enough to list OXFORD without any shame (classism, elitism, racism, imperialism, etc) but to support US interventionism and 'militarism' all to keep Israel afloat? Even her highness ScarJo not allowed to do that.

i don't know what the troon saw when investigating Joe, to conclude he is pro Israel, never heard him say anything about it? its a position he does not talk about often, maybe realizing how politically incorrect it is in a place like Berkeley?

He's an old fashioned British imperialist, and embarrasses the younger hard-lefty troons, so they just kind of ignore him since they don't know what to do with him.

 

[Twiggez-Vous]

Am beginning to think the Joe-Julie/Helen showdown may never go ahead.

The troon sandcastle is crumbling more and more by the day in the UK. People who have sat in silence are getting emboldened. By the time the Brooklyn Polygamist washes up here, he''ll face a more liberated and hostile press than he can imagine now. The BBC have just cut links with Stonewall - I think we will see political parties start to distance themselves next.

But Joe has his massive publishing advance so why would he care?

 

[Constellationzero]

As someone who studied literature to MA level at a well regarded university in the last 5 years, I can 100% confirm academia across all levels is full of muppets who have one thing they have read everything about (usually with a bias to simply confirm their particular niche argument which they will write numerous repetitive papers on) yet who know nothing about anything else. Particularly how little academic theory means to the practical, real world.

At least for interpretative subjects like literature, I found many professors and PhDs pile waffle upon waffle to 'prove' their subjective reading of a text. Essentially they can build an entire academic career upon personal beliefs. Their interpertation. Their opinions. So no wonder there are so many academic (and wannabe student) troons sacrificing at the alter of Judith Butler. It's the perfect match of overthinking and overpicking a big pile of waffly nothing that boils down, essentially, to "well I feel this way, so it's VALID!".

Joe's tedious ramblings remind me of so many queer theory essays I hate read as a student. Anything can be queered to mean anything but in a very specific way (aka use the right buzz words).

Piggybacking on that. I have a Masters. You would not believe the sheer numbers of arrogant, hubristic "Educated" FOOLS there are. Oh yeah, they can psychobabble and academia word salad like L. Ron Hubbard on a Sea Org junket, but can they:

* Answer a phone?
* Install/assemble parts to make something?
* Change a tire?
* Change their own oil?
* Perform basic animal husbandry?

NO. As a matter of fact, fuck NO.

How does Sideshow still have a teaching position? He is making Berkely look like a Clown college straight outta Baraboo.

 

[homewayhalf]

Every time Joe talks about children I just remember all of his past comments about how awful babies are and how much kids suck. Yes it’s totally believable that he’s concerned with protecting them.

 

[Prescription Bugs]

Am beginning to think the Joe-Julie/Helen showdown may never go ahead.

The troon sandcastle is crumbling more and more by the day in the UK. People who have sat in silence are getting emboldened. By the time the Brooklyn Polygamist washes up here, he''ll face a more liberated and hostile press than he can imagine now. The BBC have just cut links with Stonewall - I think we will see political parties start to distance themselves next.

But Joe has his massive publishing advance so why would he care?

Wow, Brooklyn polygamous, yes! Keep sweet, Mallory and Lily! Enjoy your bite marks and fists in the mouth, shapeless garments, and lonely weekends when he’s off having sex with the other family vagina. Manson made his girls shave their heads too.

Every time Joe talks about children I just remember all of his past comments about how awful babies are and how much kids suck. Yes it’s totally believable that he’s concerned with protecting them.

Put it all together with his pedoesque Insta content and you've got yourself a real interesting situation. He loves to skate just on the edge of what's "okay" I guess just because he likes to provoke people? I don't know.

Memory refresh (art pieces with naked adults and children gawking at them, one is actually a kid looking at porn.)

 

[The Mad Pirate]

Trying to protect kids from predators makes you a predator. I don't think Joe even realizes the self-own here.
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I will interpret this as narcissistic projection.
The first point is: Who want's Allison to protect women and children from ? Answer : Troon psychos like Joe and his tranny friends. So he projects his own desires into her : it is him who wants to control child's bodies by grooming them and put them into puberty blockers for real reason other than them being confused, and funny enough, his argument is : to protect trans children from a life of misery and gender dysphoria if secondary sexual characteristics develop during puberty. In a way, you can apply Sargon's Law here : Whenever an ideologue makes a character judgement about someone they are debating with, that character judgement is usually true about themselves.

He is getting himself into a fine tangle on this thread arguing that kids can consent to unnecessary surgeries but not sex and not alcohol.

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Hey Joe, if your opinion is that "the heterosexual family is ... dangerous," you are a corrupting influence on our society. Period. This is all a proxy fight over who gets to socially reproduce their values onto a generation of children, and for some reason, queer academics want the answer to be anything but "their parents." It is all the same old Marxist shit. Too useless to give yourself a generational stake in this world, you worm your way into encouraging childproletariat liberation because you hate their parentslandlords.

Engels, fucking ha!

Incredible how he selectively flip-flops whenever it isn't convenient anymore. He says "children are not innocent" to defend ruining a child's life by putting them on puberty blockers but then he flip-flops saying "I don't think children can consent" ( ergo implying that they are in fact innocent enough to have sexual intercourse ). So far, all I have seen from Joe is nothing but sophism and rhetoric. There is never any real substance to what he argues, mainly because he spends just too much damn time arguing semantics. It is also funny how he argues about "trans people feeling safe" but at the same time arguing that prisons should be abolished. Hey Joe, if prisons are abolished, who do you think all that HH 1488ers you let loose will hunt like animals first ?. Let me tell you who.....PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

 

[The Mad Pirate]

Piggybacking on that. I have a Masters. You would not believe the sheer numbers of arrogant, hubristic "Educated" FOOLS there are.

I have spent enough time on STEM faculties to confirm that myself.

 

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

Incredible how he selectively flip-flops whenever it isn't convenient anymore. He says "children are not innocent" to defend ruining a child's life by putting them on puberty blockers but then he flip-flops saying "I don't think children can consent" ( ergo implying that they are in fact innocent enough to have sexual intercourse ). So far, all I have seen from Joe is nothing but sophism and rhetoric. There is never any real substance to what he argues, mainly because he spends just too much damn time arguing semantics. It is also funny how he argues about "trans people feeling safe" but at the same time arguing that prisons should be abolished. Hey Joe, if prisons are abolished, who do you think all that HH 1488ers you let loose will hunt like animals first ?. Let me tell you who.....PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

TL;DR he's a typical dime-a-dozen PoMo "intellectual" with zero experience or skills in real life, getting high off his own farts. "Oh ho ho no dear I didn't actually mean what I said and even if I did you couldn't prove it because I have a PhD in word games!" He completely fails to understand the only thing keeping him and his ilk alive is the very thing he's actively trying to undermine: Western civilization. He'd be beaten to death, hanged, burned, shot, strangled, drawn and quartered, or given a free base jumping lesson, then buried in a shallow grave in any other part of the world. He's unable to come to a conclusion and say anything straight out because while he's got a hard-on for transgressiveness he's also very much a coward - always skirting on those uneven, thin borders. The only reason he's so direct and confrontative with "TERFs" is because of the zeitgeist, but he can't do even that properly.

Him just copping out on his grand debates is a foregone conclusion.

 

[mold]

He'd be beaten to death, hanged, burned, shot, strangled, drawn and quartered, or given a free base jumping lesson, then buried in a shallow grave in any other part of the world.

nah he wouldn't

if he lived someplace different he'd align with the power structures there

it's not like he has principles or something

 

[Prescription Bugs]

it's not like he has principles or something

I’m just wondering when John 3 sues Mallory, Joe, and the Menlo church board for revealing psychiatric information and for defamation of character when there were no victims whatsoever and he was the victim of extra judicial (public, humiliating) conviction of a thought crime.


Thoughts are currently still legal. Thoughts you don’t like about yourself and thoughts you want to stop, are not only legal but a little heartbreaking.


I don’t know any of these people, but man I would sue the pants off them if for no other reason than to clear my name and make them pay to defend themselves in court.

 

[chickenbutt]

I’m just wondering when John 3 sues Mallory, Joe, and the Menlo church board for revealing psychiatric information and for defamation of character when there were no victims whatsoever and he was the victim of extra judicial (public, humiliating) conviction of a thought crime.


Thoughts are currently still legal. Thoughts you don’t like about yourself and thoughts you want to stop, are not only legal but a little heartbreaking.


I don’t know any of these people, but man I would sue the pants off them if for no other reason than to clear my name and make them pay to defend themselves in court.

God, I would love to see that too. Unfortunately I don't know if Mo's family will really go that route. It seems like her parents might have enough residual affection for their prodigal spastic daughter caught in the limp-wristed grasp of a narcissistic crossdresser to forgo raking the stupid bitch through court for slander. While it is disgusting that they went out of their way to insinuate the existence of IRL victims with zero evidence, even the suggestion of pedophilia is not something most people want to associate themselves with. I just get the feeling that John 3 in particular would like this all to just go away, now that it's conclusively established he hasn't actually diddled any kids. Her parents are probably too much of the "turn the other cheek" variety of Christian to sue their own kid.

Much as I would love to see Joe try his semantic games on a judge, and get his ass flayed and handed back to him for it, I think the pair of these fools are ironically saved by the fact that Mo's wildly-maligned family are - clearly - infinitely better people than either of them.

 

[mold]

sue them for what? being awful is legal

 

[Prescription Bugs]

sue them for what? being awful is legal

Californias Defamation Law - Can you sue for libel & slander?

A personal injury lawyer explains California defamation laws, including libel, slander, false light, defamation per se and per quod.

www.shouselaw.com

I’m fairly sure he would have grounds for this kind of a lawsuit in CA.

 

[Trianon]

I will interpret this as narcissistic projection.
The first point is: Who want's Allison to protect women and children from ? Answer : Troon psychos like Joe and his tranny friends. So he projects his own desires into her : it is him who wants to control child's bodies by grooming them and put them into puberty blockers for real reason other than them being confused, and funny enough, his argument is : to protect trans children from a life of misery and gender dysphoria if secondary sexual characteristics develop during puberty. In a way, you can apply Sargon's Law here : Whenever an ideologue makes a character judgement about someone they are debating with, that character judgement is usually true about themselves.

Incredible how he selectively flip-flops whenever it isn't convenient anymore. He says "children are not innocent" to defend ruining a child's life by putting them on puberty blockers but then he flip-flops saying "I don't think children can consent" ( ergo implying that they are in fact innocent enough to have sexual intercourse ). So far, all I have seen from Joe is nothing but sophism and rhetoric. There is never any real substance to what he argues, mainly because he spends just too much damn time arguing semantics. It is also funny how he argues about "trans people feeling safe" but at the same time arguing that prisons should be abolished. Hey Joe, if prisons are abolished, who do you think all that HH 1488ers you let loose will hunt like animals first ?. Let me tell you who.....PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

Joe and troons generally try to present the "choice" of transitioning as just one among many, instead of recognizing that puberty is the default. When you tell them we can't trans kids because they are still developing and can't make good decisions because they're hormonal, they respond, "Wow, puberty sounds really bad, I guess everyone should block their puberty until they can decide!" They are in rebellion against the life cycle itself. They hate puberty, parents, births, because they're reminders that humans go with the flow of time and can't reverse the changes in our bodies that are inevitable. It's just wild to me that they don't believe in like ... entropy or evolution or anything.

I’m just wondering when John 3 sues Mallory, Joe, and the Menlo church board for revealing psychiatric information and for defamation of character when there were no victims whatsoever and he was the victim of extra judicial (public, humiliating) conviction of a thought crime.


Thoughts are currently still legal. Thoughts you don’t like about yourself and thoughts you want to stop, are not only legal but a little heartbreaking.


I don’t know any of these people, but man I would sue the pants off them if for no other reason than to clear my name and make them pay to defend themselves in court.

Suing is pretty frowned-upon in Christian circles. Usually it's just bringing out the biblical texts that say "Christians shouldn't sue each other because it makes the church look bad," but that definitely applies to family too, in terms of the optics. There's basically no way to sue your daughter and have the high ground. Much as it would be nice.

Johnny might be the most likely to do so, though. Especially if it affects his job prospects.

It's great that we don't know like anything about him. Smart of him.

 

[AirdropShitposts]

He is getting himself into a fine tangle on this thread arguing that kids can consent to unnecessary surgeries but not sex and not alcohol.

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Hey Joe, if your opinion is that "the heterosexual family is ... dangerous," you are a corrupting influence on our society. Period. This is all a proxy fight over who gets to socially reproduce their values onto a generation of children, and for some reason, queer academics want the answer to be anything but "their parents." It is all the same old Marxist shit. Too useless to give yourself a generational stake in this world, you worm your way into encouraging childproletariat liberation because you hate their parentslandlords.

Engels, fucking ha!

This is the classic social justice take that critical theory and its children has beget so forcefully into the hands of all these pseudointellectuals:
Lavery: "We must abolish the entire system!"
Random Dude: "What should replace it?"
Lavery: