Grace Lavery / Joseph Lavery & Daniel M. Lavery / Mallory Ortberg - "Straight with extra steps" couple trooning out to avoid "dwindling into mere heterosexuality"

Is anyone else besides me wondering about the impact of Mal's upcoming phalloplasty on her macho climbing hobby?
Well in the photo, Mallory is very proudly climbing a V1 which is a beginner boulder problem. So it’s likely she won’t regress too much. That said she won’t be able to wear a harness and lead climb after phallo for a very long time. After any surgery, but especially that one.


Phallo is such a bad idea just generally but surgery almost always causes a bit of reduction in health for awhile! Hope she gets a spirometer and chicken soup and that someone give her nice care when she actually pulls the trigger.


I genuinely can’t believe she is doing this. I guess I will believe it when I see it.
 
The sort of existence that would be deemed 'far fetched' if it were the plot of a novel or movie. And yet it's happening to a real woman, with a real body.
Imagine being cared for after a major pelvic surgery with arm or thigh skin grafts, by your lover's mistress, who is hoping to take your place and laughing that you no longer have what your lover needs to stay fascinated by you.

It's like if Ariel and Ursula the sea-witch were competing over a talking sack of potatoes with a masturbation problem.
 
Yeah, @ Prescription Bugs, that's sort of what I was getting at. A climbing harness basically gives you the ultimate wedgie and it seems like sawing up her nether regions will put a stop to Mal's climbing for a long time if not forever. Which is a shame because its pretty much the only healthy thing I've ever seen her do.
If she was still climbing, she would be Instagramming it. I guarantee she has already abandoned it.

Joe just retweeted this so it's not as creepy as if he'd dug it up and posted it himself, but he could also have...not retweeted the childlike "twinks"?
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Did anyone catch Joe trying to claim that he "fucks boys"? The person who called him out on the "trying to fuck" verbiage got him dead to rights. Joe does not have sex with men, any so-called "trying to fuck" men is just him trying to seem more kweer.
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When the pedos and pedo-defenders talk about how kids aren't innocent, if you ask for details about what they mean, they'll tell you things like "well, when I was a kid I had secret dirty thoughts that I felt very ashamed of but that people wouldn't think of as coming from an innocent kid."

And they totally in that moment reveal not only that they don't know what childhood innocence really means, and that they're pedos.

A kid having some weird off-the-wall sexual thoughts is being innocent. They're thinking about how body parts work together and what feels good to them. If a full-grown adult with normal mental development is thinking dirty thoughts and tells you about them and says they'd like to try something out, you might give that a spin. But kids, no matter what they think about privately, don't deserve to have their childhood invaded by an adult who wants to use their development as a way to vampirically gain back a little of their lost youth. This doesn't just go for the adults who actively molest kids, it goes for the neoqweers who want to give "sex ed lessons" and shock kids by telling them about fetishes and telling them all their most pervy thoughts are totally fine to enact.

There's a lot of cultural baggage wrapped up in the idea that childhood shame is the root of all problems. Goes back to Freud. But it was never true, and Freud was a fucking perv too who excused the all-too-common phenomenon of father-daughter incest as being something the daughter wanted and asked for. Some childhood shame is good for kids, and it's fine for kids to have some proto-sexual thoughts without talking to too-eager adults about a fucking word of it.
I would disagree with some of that. Childhood shame has traditionally made things easier for predators because of kids learn that anything about sex or genitals is shameful they will be too ashamed to talk about abuse. This is what helped abuse grow in a lot of fundamentalist religious environments (along with an untouchable class of people who can’t be accused without the victim of abuse getting attacked; I’ll come back to that)

The healthiest thing to do for kids is to give them the information they need without shame and without introducing anything sexual into it either. A lot of kids like to touch themselves: this isn’t sexual, because they’re kids, and like you said it’s actually a demonstration of innocence because they don’t know it can be something sexual in an adult.

The old way of doing it is to basically shame kids for touching themselves (I remember my parents scolding me just for resting my hands in my lap the wrong way; it’s an extremely vivid memory because I remember being so confused and embarrassed). A kid who has been told that anything about the genitals = being shamed is less likely to tell their parents about a predator.

So what you do if a kid is doing that is say in a neutral tone “no, we don’t do that around other people.” That, plus introducing kids early on to the concept of private parts that adults aren’t allowed to touch, plus letting them know about warning behaviors in adults (“looking out for tricky people”). The kid then has tools and knowledge without being exposed to adult sexuality.


One big issue now is that a lot of religious and other traditionally predator-heavy environments are finally getting better about screening for and kicking out predators, but no one seems to be able to grasp that the predators are just going to move on to the next place that welcomes them. And right now that is the movement that has created a new untouchable class of men that you are not allowed to accuse because you are hurting the Catholic Church LGBT movement and the scandal will result in souls being lost transgender women of color being murdered!!

Surprise surprise, adult men who were willing to go to seminary and spend their lives as priests in order to access kids are also willing to put on a dress and call themselves Jessica. The infiltration doesn’t surprise me, it’s the fact that so many relatively normal people are falling for it.
 
I would disagree with some of that. Childhood shame has traditionally made things easier for predators because of kids learn that anything about sex or genitals is shameful they will be too ashamed to talk about abuse. This is what helped abuse grow in a lot of fundamentalist religious environments (along with an untouchable class of people who can’t be accused without the victim of abuse getting attacked; I’ll come back to that)

The healthiest thing to do for kids is to give them the information they need without shame and without introducing anything sexual into it either. A lot of kids like to touch themselves: this isn’t sexual, because they’re kids, and like you said it’s actually a demonstration of innocence because they don’t know it can be something sexual in an adult.

The old way of doing it is to basically shame kids for touching themselves (I remember my parents scolding me just for resting my hands in my lap the wrong way; it’s an extremely vivid memory because I remember being so confused and embarrassed). A kid who has been told that anything about the genitals = being shamed is less likely to tell their parents about a predator.

So what you do if a kid is doing that is say in a neutral tone “no, we don’t do that around other people.” That, plus introducing kids early on to the concept of private parts that adults aren’t allowed to touch, plus letting them know about warning behaviors in adults (“looking out for tricky people”). The kid then has tools and knowledge without being exposed to adult sexuality.


One big issue now is that a lot of religious and other traditionally predator-heavy environments are finally getting better about screening for and kicking out predators, but no one seems to be able to grasp that the predators are just going to move on to the next place that welcomes them. And right now that is the movement that has created a new untouchable class of men that you are not allowed to accuse because you are hurting the Catholic Church LGBT movement and the scandal will result in souls being lost transgender women of color being murdered!!

Surprise surprise, adult men who were willing to go to seminary and spend their lives as priests in order to access kids are also willing to put on a dress and call themselves Jessica. The infiltration doesn’t surprise me, it’s the fact that so many relatively normal people are falling for it.

I think the new "tricky people" thing is actually really damaging to kids (and makes it hard for them to understand what's actually wrong with sexualizing children), making molestation sound like it's a clever, interesting thing.

And it's all so that the current crop of "sex educators" (who are highly sus) can avoid saying the people doing those things are BAD and TERRIBLE. It's literally avoiding the words meaning "bad" to describe these people "so that kids won't feel ashamed" but uh these are the exact same liberal idiots telling us that kids need drag queen story hour. There's another very easy to detect motivation why the new trend is not to call molesters anything bad or shameful. In many other contexts, "tricky" is a semi-positive word for kids. A tricky math problem is one you should be able to succeed at, if you are careful. A tricky bike stunt requires practice and concentration, it's not something to avoid.

I think people like Joe would love to be considered "tricky people." How mysterious, how clever.

And I think there are plenty of kids who will find that idea fascinating...and that that's half the point. It's even more confusing to kids about how their parents really feel about these "tricky" people...do your parents think those people are clever, or evil? If they're tricky and you got tricked, doesn't it make you the gullible one who should feel duped and stupid? In any other context, being tricked by a tricky person isn't all on the tricky person, it's on you, too. This is a phrase used to disguise true evil and make it seem palatable. Don't believe the hype.
 
The idea is to put it in terms kids can understand. Who cares what people like Joe and his pedo buddies think; they’re going to try to molest kids no matter what they are are called. And you can replace the word with “bad” or "evil” and the message to kids is the same, which is to look out for suspicious adult behavior that breaks boundaries.

Also, they’re not the “same idiots.” People actually trying to protect kids are competing with people trying to sell the other curriculums. Why would the tranny supporters be pushing their new gender-focused curriculums so hard and working to change attitudes about adult/child boundaries if the other ones already suited them?

Anyway, back on track:

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“Here I am, spending an evening with my three brilliant cis lesbian friends. You can’t see them but they’re just out of frame, complaining about TERFs too.”
 
The idea is to put it in terms kids can understand. Who cares what people like Joe and his pedo buddies think; they’re going to try to molest kids no matter what they are are called. And you can replace the word with “bad” or "evil” and the message to kids is the same, which is to look out for suspicious adult behavior that breaks boundaries.

I can't really just let that go, because it really is the same people, and it's not irrelevant to the thread because this is exactly the kind of feel-good liberal bullshit sexuality program people pretend is "different" from the degeneracy, but which actually just acts as grooming. There is a direct pipeline from the "tricky people" discourse to exactly the kind of bullshit we see right here in this thread about how kids aren't really that innocent.

That same blog you linked to has these recommendations for books on sex ed for kids: https://gooddayswithkids.com/2018/04/18/books-for-children-about-sexuality/ We've got books here about how gender identity is inside us all, and books where "some people have uteruses and some don't" with no one bothering to identify which mysterious people might have them.

https://gooddayswithkids.com/2018/05/02/gender-identity/ They have the fucking genderbread person as how to talk to kids about gender. They say that trans kids are real and need to be "affirmed" to prevent suicide. The consent culture isn't perverted and twisted into "and by the way it's fine to manipulate kids into sexual mutilation," it's baked right in. People like Mallory are among its older victims, since she was raised in a liberal church that very likely had one of the earliest forms of these curricula.

These are exactly the groomer all-sex-people-say-yes-to-is-good-sex types you're looking for. This is the stuff Mallory thinks is normal because she was brought up to think the "Our Whole Lives" curriculum is normal, that's the context she was raised in. This is table stakes in that world and you're a prude if you think there could be something wrong with it. And then, like Mal's parents, you're surprised when the leopards eat your face and your daughter is chopping off her arm skin to make a crotch tube.
 
The curriculum has been in use since 2001 and is produced by a company called Safely Ever After that focuses entirely on child safety. The blog was something I googled and skimmed because it seemed to explain the concept reasonably well. I could just have easily picked a conservative site or blog doing the same thing:



If you have proof that Safely Ever After also produced weird gender content I am happy to look at it.

Pretending that normal helpful child-safety shit is the same as degeneracy is exactly how you stop people from noticing the degeneracy taking over.

I am not sure I want to know why you think “consent culture” is bad but I am quite a fan of consent myself, including the idea that kids cannot do it.
 
Has Mallory ever seen a photo of a neo-penis? If she has and still wants to get one, someone needs to do an intervention. As bad as the neo-vaginas are (and there are some real horror shows), occasionally you can get one that sort of looks like a vagina if it is dark and you've had a couple (or 6) beers. I have never seen a neo-penis that looked like anything other than a cartoonish horror.

It will have no functionality and no sensation -- so it will be just like having a limp lump of flesh dangling off your body. Like fat people who have excess skin hanging off after losing a lot of weight. You are better off just strapping a dildo on when you want to peg someone and the rest of the time just walking around with a sock (or one of those silicon packers). At least you could occasionally get a break from it and not have that weird sensation of touching a bag of meat every time you have to shower or pee.
I don't know, she seems to believe any negative possibilities are a psyop to prevent her from doing What She Wants! "I heard it's not even good!"

Joe just retweeted this so it's not as creepy as if he'd dug it up and posted it himself, but he could also have...not retweeted the childlike "twinks"?

Did anyone catch Joe trying to claim that he "fucks boys"? The person who called him out on the "trying to fuck" verbiage got him dead to rights. Joe does not have sex with men, any so-called "trying to fuck" men is just him trying to seem more kweer.
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Everything I have learned about Don Bluth and his brother has been against my will.

I can't really just let that go, because it really is the same people, and it's not irrelevant to the thread because this is exactly the kind of feel-good liberal bullshit sexuality program people pretend is "different" from the degeneracy, but which actually just acts as grooming. There is a direct pipeline from the "tricky people" discourse to exactly the kind of bullshit we see right here in this thread about how kids aren't really that innocent.

That same blog you linked to has these recommendations for books on sex ed for kids: https://gooddayswithkids.com/2018/04/18/books-for-children-about-sexuality/ We've got books here about how gender identity is inside us all, and books where "some people have uteruses and some don't" with no one bothering to identify which mysterious people might have them.

https://gooddayswithkids.com/2018/05/02/gender-identity/ They have the fucking genderbread person as how to talk to kids about gender. They say that trans kids are real and need to be "affirmed" to prevent suicide. The consent culture isn't perverted and twisted into "and by the way it's fine to manipulate kids into sexual mutilation," it's baked right in. People like Mallory are among its older victims, since she was raised in a liberal church that very likely had one of the earliest forms of these curricula.

These are exactly the groomer all-sex-people-say-yes-to-is-good-sex types you're looking for. This is the stuff Mallory thinks is normal because she was brought up to think the "Our Whole Lives" curriculum is normal, that's the context she was raised in. This is table stakes in that world and you're a prude if you think there could be something wrong with it. And then, like Mal's parents, you're surprised when the leopards eat your face and your daughter is chopping off her arm skin to make a crotch tube.
I basically think there's never going to be a silver bullet word or tactic that strikes the right balance. Everything we do has the potential for downstream harm that we can't even see or predict. But I agree with you that a complete ban on talking about sex with your kid sounds way, way better to me than everything going on in schools now with forcing kids to think about sex and genitals and gender, instead of letting it come up naturally. The problem with most of it is that it forces teachers to act like therapists when they are NOT qualified for that, so you're getting a bunch of nonprofessionals poking kids constantly about if they're doing OK, and that just has so much bad potential with sensitive issues like this. They are primed to "save" these kids from their parents, and sometimes just because the parent doesn't think there's any scientific basis for the gender unicorn. It's insane.

And we are just a few decades out from the psychology schools believing that letting pedophiles take care of foster kids was a good idea.
 
Did anyone catch Joe trying to claim that he "fucks boys"? The person who called him out on the "trying to fuck" verbiage got him dead to rights. Joe does not have sex with men, any so-called "trying to fuck" men is just him trying to seem more kweer.
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Haha, those two were great. Absolutely right on. 'Maybe stfu with the gay dictates, and yeah you're constantly lying for 'queer' cred.' 'Stfu about 'boys' you sick groomer pervert.'

Those pics were pretty gross. I don't think Joe's audience of bitchy gendergoblins and sissyporn autogynos were that jazzed about them either. Good.

OttoWest: Possibly but unless Joe has arranged to be on the West Coast, surgery means recovery— which means Joe, the dutiful spouse, having the unglamorous job of taking care of Mal.
If only Joe had something to do on the West Coast, something to occupy his time..
I think Mallory has sadly chickened out, but if it's just delayed I don't think it will happen anywhere within 6 months of Joe's book coming out. He wouldn't tolerate any stealing of attention or his time from him. And a dutiful little wife submits to the needs of her husband's career.
 
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I can't really just let that go, because it really is the same people, and it's not irrelevant to the thread because this is exactly the kind of feel-good liberal bullshit sexuality program people pretend is "different" from the degeneracy, but which actually just acts as grooming. There is a direct pipeline from the "tricky people" discourse to exactly the kind of bullshit we see right here in this thread about how kids aren't really that innocent.
it might be the same organizations but ime no it is very much not the same people. the creepsters have moved in everywhere there are kids cause that's what they do but what I'm observing is that the less conventional, more LGBBQ affirming an organization is, the less likely they are to do *any* trainings or background checks. Whereas churches are making people sit through a training and get fingerprinted if they might breathe in a room a kid was in once. And the trainings are really good, there's nothing troony in them.
 
Did anyone catch Joe trying to claim that he "fucks boys"? The person who called him out on the "trying to fuck" verbiage got him dead to rights. Joe does not have sex with men, any so-called "trying to fuck" men is just him trying to seem more kweer.
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"a lady doesn't kiss and tell" but does talk about all the "boys" she's fucking (and trying to fuck) in public and then offers to DM details?
 
Did the audience consent to viewing this? Did the audience consent to having urine thrown in their faces?

Again Joe/ Grace Lavery advocates for non consensual sex acts, in this case indecent exposure which seems to be Joe’s pet crime of choice… topless pics, see through blouses, dicks in the changing room, and all manner of porn (photographs or drawings), always pushing that boundary of involving the unsuspecting person who is surprised with an exposed body part. Just get a trench coat and flash people in the alley because it’s the same thing. Nobody wants to see it but here we are.

The crime is not the peeing OR the “rock and roll.” The crime is the public peeing/indecent act and potentially the throwing of pee on the crowd although I’m not sure that guy’s action is mentioned anywhere.

But no it’s consensual and therefore totally fine? If people have sex on the sidewalk, consensually during a farmer’s market, is that an act of consensual vegetable marketing? Hmmm. Okay.





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The idea is to put it in terms kids can understand. Who cares what people like Joe and his pedo buddies think; they’re going to try to molest kids no matter what they are are called. And you can replace the word with “bad” or "evil” and the message to kids is the same, which is to look out for suspicious adult behavior that breaks boundaries.

Also, they’re not the “same idiots.” People actually trying to protect kids are competing with people trying to sell the other curriculums. Why would the tranny supporters be pushing their new gender-focused curriculums so hard and working to change attitudes about adult/child boundaries if the other ones already suited them?

Anyway, back on track:

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“Here I am, spending an evening with my three brilliant cis lesbian friends. You can’t see them but they’re just out of frame, complaining about TERFs too.”

If these women even exist, which is doubtful, you can tell they're not brilliant by the fact that they hang out with Joe.

His narcissism would never be able to withstand a brilliant woman with any measure of self-confidence, because she'd show him up as the tedious, chauvinist mediocrity he is without breaking a sweat. That's why he surrounds himself with a mixture of dipshits, sycophants, and mentally ill women with subzero self-esteem.
 
If these women even exist, which is doubtful, you can tell they're not brilliant by the fact that they hang out with Joe.

His narcissism would never be able to withstand a brilliant woman with any measure of self-confidence, because she'd show him up as the tedious, chauvinist mediocrity he is without breaking a sweat. That's why he surrounds himself with a mixture of dipshits, sycophants, and mentally ill women with subzero self-esteem.
According to Joe, he explained gametes to them while they all looked on in wide-eyed, slack-jawed wonder.

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Thank God Joe was there! No one, especially not dumb broads, ever figured out gametes until Joe, the guy who thinks that female gametes are produced in the uterus, stepped in to calmly explain. Until Joe enlightened us, we were all just blindly smashing our genitals against random objects and wondering why a baby never appeared.
 
According to Joe, he explained gametes to them while they all looked on in wide-eyed, slack-jawed wonder.

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Thank God Joe was there! No one, especially not dumb broads, ever figured out gametes until Joe, the guy who thinks that female gametes are produced in the uterus, stepped in to calmly explain. Until Joe enlightened us, we were all just blindly smashing our genitals against random objects and wondering why a baby never appeared.

I love Joe's delusional monologues to himself, they're so transparently him recreating his internal narrative with an imaginary captive audience. He is so unhinged.

Hey Joe, you know what you sound like?

"And then... and then my friend Dingo drew on the walls, mommy. Yes he's real but you can't see him, he's shy so he hides in the walls when grown ups are here. He gave me invisible monies and told me I was the cleverest ever, and that I don't have to eat vegetables if I don't want to! Dingo thinks you're a mean mommy"
 
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